What to wear in an open canoe in Canada

Goatboy

Full Member
Jan 31, 2005
14,956
18
Scotland
They don't work for everybody and I'd avoid using them if you're allergic to the adhesive in Elastoplast® (sorry about that Toddy). But I personally find the Don't Bite Me Patches® are really good. Works like a nicotine or HRT patch but it floods your system with Vitamin B12. Bitey things seemingly don't like it. Takes about an hour to take effect then lasts for about 36 hours. As it comes out through the pores it doesn't matter if you take a swim and indeed the more one perspires the better it is.
Only drawback is that you smell a bit like a Twigglet® which I hate but its worth it to keep midge & ticks at bay. I'd still carry a midge headnet as if they're thick its worth it and they have other uses too.
I looked into any side effects of flooding your system with excess B12 but there seemed to be none, (my Doc said it was harmless too, I wanted to check as I take a lot of other medications). The body just flushed excess B12 through perspiration (how the product works basically) and through urine. There's another company that sells a similar product with the same ingredients as a hang-over cure. The body burns through B vitamins when processing alcohol and it needs to be replaced. (Indeed many alcoholics suffer from a shortage and it can end up damaging the heart). The manufacturers do warn that the efficacy is lessened by excessive alcohol consumption; not that that would be a problem for us clean living bushcrafters! ;)

Sent via smoke-signal from a woodland in Scotland.
 

Hibrion

Maker
Jan 11, 2012
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Ireland
Aren't I lucky that the most I have to worry about in Ireland is midges. Hardly any mosquitos and no dangerous predators. Mind you, i've been in bear country before, but always had my 30-30 Winchester 94 with me. Never tempted to use on midges though, as per your cartoon, Fabian!
 

Goatboy

Full Member
Jan 31, 2005
14,956
18
Scotland
Hadnt heard of that before,goatboy. Sounds good though.
Might need to order myself a lorry load.

The good thing is that as each patch lasts about 36 hours that five patches will give you a weeks continuous protection and takes up a space the size of roughly a Tactac® box while being lighter than a bottle of Deet. I've found in conjunction with the excellent pinetar soap available from Fi (of this parish) that I've had no ticks and little midge problems since I started using them.
You could just eat bucketloads of Marmite®, but you'd have to eat huge amounts and personally I hate the stuff, gives me the boak.
Would try it before you go though as like all deterents it doesn't seem to work for all.

Sent via smoke-signal from a woodland in Scotland.
 

adestu

Native
Jan 19, 2010
1,718
3
swindon
For those who recommended buffalo clothing ive just aquired two new latest issue british army buffalo style pullovers on eBay for 40 quid each.lightweight excellent quality
 

UKdave

Forager
Mar 9, 2006
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Ontario, Canada
Whilst I cant compare the Yukon, I do a good amount of trips here in Ontario, and mostly in Algonquin, DO NOT underestimate the misery of Black flies and Mosquitoes. If you can get hold of it and I would try very hard, you will want to buy "Permethrin", which is a bug repellent for your cloths, you soak your cloths in it and it stops the bugs from landing on you before they can bite you. I would dress in long sleeved and legged clothing of some type of wicking material of your choice, over the top of that I would get a full body mosie suit and I would speak with the guide about deet,(Im not sure what the max strength is in the Yukon but here in Ontario it is 30% which the bugs like!!), the ambient temp will be likely that of the UK and your going to be paddling for 6-8hrs per day you will be warm, trust me, my first trip was a misery, and I will never ever let that happen again... I would go over kill with the bug protection, then you can moderate what you use to what you have.
Another thing to mention what are your sleeping arrangements? again my first trip I shared a tent with 3 others, every time one of the guys went for a pee a good amount of mossies would be waiting to fly in the tent and get you, mostly on the hands and face, very itchy! I always sleep on my own now and I take a pee bottle in with me.

The patches sound like something I will look into, Ive never heard of them.
 

John Fenna

Lifetime Member & Maker
Oct 7, 2006
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Whilst I cant compare the Yukon, I do a good amount of trips here in Ontario, and mostly in Algonquin, DO NOT underestimate the misery of Black flies and Mosquitoes. If you can get hold of it and I would try very hard, you will want to buy "Permethrin", which is a bug repellent for your cloths, you soak your cloths in it and it stops the bugs from landing on you before they can bite you. I would dress in long sleeved and legged clothing of some type of wicking material of your choice, over the top of that I would get a full body mosie suit and I would speak with the guide about deet,(Im not sure what the max strength is in the Yukon but here in Ontario it is 30% which the bugs like!!), the ambient temp will be likely that of the UK and your going to be paddling for 6-8hrs per day you will be warm, trust me, my first trip was a misery, and I will never ever let that happen again... I would go over kill with the bug protection, then you can moderate what you use to what you have.
Another thing to mention what are your sleeping arrangements? again my first trip I shared a tent with 3 others, every time one of the guys went for a pee a good amount of mossies would be waiting to fly in the tent and get you, mostly on the hands and face, very itchy! I always sleep on my own now and I take a pee bottle in with me.

The patches sound like something I will look into, Ive never heard of them.

I agree with the sleep alone and have a pee bottle ANYWHERE that flies are a problem!
I too learned this the hard way - in my case canoeing on Lake Volta in Ghana....
 

Robson Valley

On a new journey
Nov 24, 2014
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McBride, BC
Fact is, mosquitoes have what are named "Johnson organs." These are infrared/heat sensors. The can find your exhaust breath plume of carbon dioxide like looking for smoke out of a chimney.
Avon "SkinSoSoft" has some oil of Citrionella in it. Our summer legions of tree planters usually use it. It does work.

I've pinned cotton balls to my cuffs and collars, added a couple of drops of Deep Woods "OFF" to them. Far higher DEET content than any spray and there's no need to marinate in it.
 

Hibrion

Maker
Jan 11, 2012
1,230
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Ireland
May or may not have to share a tent. I'll be borrowing one when I get there since I don't use a tent camping here, and the weight restrictions make it tricky too. From what I can tell from you guys' mossie talk, sleeping under a tarp is not the wisest idea.

I'd be interested to know your choice of footwear for in the canoe, UKDave. It seems everyone does something different in that respect.
 

UKdave

Forager
Mar 9, 2006
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0
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Ontario, Canada
I usually have 2 pairs.
Our first trip this year is 2nd week of May into Algonquin, this is just after ice off and the ground is damp and the rocks slick, because we usually do 3 portages to get to our site and we go in "heavy" ie, we dont go hungry!! a good pair of boots are needed so we limit any ankle injuries, these boots are only worn when Im portaging, if Im just out on the lake fishing then I just wear my camp sandals.

If you are out on a lake, the further from shore you are the less the bugs will be, if you are on a river then you may still have some problems, so you have a choice, you can either wear your boots or you can do what I do and thats wear some thin liner socks soaked in permethrin and sandals.

I try not to wear boots in the boat because I cant swim very well with them on, and if your just paddling then you dont need the ankle support. Your guide will be the best person to talk to about this. One thing I would never ever do is wear wellies... ever.
 

bodhran4me

Member
Jan 9, 2011
11
0
Ontario, Canada
May or may not have to share a tent. I'll be borrowing one when I get there since I don't use a tent camping here, and the weight restrictions make it tricky too. From what I can tell from you guys' mossie talk, sleeping under a tarp is not the wisest idea.

An individual bug net may be in order. Relative small pack size given its usefullness.
Here is an interesting review/post on using a net tent in conjunction with a tarp. http://bushcraftusa.com/forum/showt...-amp-BCUSA-10x12-UL-MC-Tarp?highlight=bearpaw

I use permethrin on my hammock equipment and it does the job of keeping the skeeters and ticks at bay here in Ontario. You can't get it anymore here in though. Not sure of its availability where you are or in the Yukon for that matter. You spray it on your gear and allow it to dry and it maintains its viability for weeks. There is some debate as to it safety but so far I only have one head and no lyme disease or West Nile virus!

Either way I am sure the trip will be a blast and I look forward to hearing your trip reports.
 

bodhran4me

Member
Jan 9, 2011
11
0
Ontario, Canada
Was unable to edit my previous post on permethrin use so FYI,
If using permethrin, it is highly toxic to cats. It is okay after your gear dries but do not allow your cats near your gear until it has dried thoroughly. I usually hang dry my clothes and gear for at least 24 hrs before use to be sure all seams are dry.
 

C_Claycomb

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Oct 6, 2003
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I am reproducing here the kit advice given to me by Jed Yarnold of TrueNorth Outdoors for a trip to Knoydart in the west of Scotland in June. Jed is one of the instructors used by Bushcraft Expeditions on their Canadian adventures and is well experienced with open boat trips in Canada, Norway, Sweden and Scotland.

Paddling Kit

Shell
¨Hat
¨Foulies ( If not in boat pack):cagoule and wp trousers optional (I have wp cags and salopettes if you need them let me know)
¨combat boots and sandals (my preferred option) or mountain shoes and old trainers
¨Thermal Gloves (I won’t bother)

Mid Layers
¨Windproof Jacket
¨Polycotten shirt
¨Tough bush pants – zip-offs are a good option
¨Buff / Scarf / Bandana
¨Thermal socks

Base Layers
¨Quick drying grundies / swimming shorts
¨Thermal vest / T shirt
¨Liner sox

Duluth Pack - Camping Kit (Camping partners can share an enormous 100 litre bag between them or opt for a smaller individual pack each)
¨Tent / poles / pegs (You may wish to bring your own 2 man tent – bug screen is essential!)
¨Therm-a-rest / roll mat
¨Sleeping bag / liner / pillowcase
¨Prog bag: Wash kit / shamagh or thin towel / housewife / book / batteries / candle / spares / Hooch / journal & pen
¨bowl / (Spoon / mug in boat bag?)
¨Mobile phone
¨Land Kit see below:

Land Kit
¨Softee/ fleece top / touke
¨Spare tough slacks / shorts
¨Spare tough shirt
¨Spare: long johns / grundies / sox / T shirt
Personal Canoeing Kit (Wilderness Tripping) Jed Yarnold


Wilderness tripping is remarkably hard on personal clothing and equipment. Mud, rain, tree branches, thorns, granite, fire and food all conspire to soak it stain it, rip it, melt it, singe it and generally wear it out as quickly as possible. Only the toughest and most versatile clothing will survive long enough to become “old favourites”. So here are some pointers to success:

· Designer labels tell you more about the price than the function of the clothing. Farm shops, workwear shops and Countrywide, however, sell a whole range of tough clothing that is really inexpensive.
· Some of the less “Gucci” labels stocked by Millets and Blacks are great value for money. Look out for Peter Storm, Regatta, Gellert and Eurohike.
· Minimise, Minimise, then minimise again
· Read the care label and make sure you read the textile bits. In brief:

· THE BAD GUYS!

· Cotton, 100% Cotton, Cotton Rich: “In the hills cotton kills” “On the river cotton makes you shiver”. It gets wet, stays wet, binds and abrades and when wet will cause you to lose body heat 9 times faster than bare skin. True!! However, in a mix 35% cotton to 65% polyester it is comfortable and versatile as warm weather camp gear for shirt and trousers. For paddling, however, and when the weather is changeable avoid cotton. For very good reason the Canadians who are known for their plain speaking refer to it as “death cloth”.
· Linen, see all above for cotton and some. It also gets dirty and crumpled quickly and is ridiculously hard to wash and dry. It shrinks and loses shape. The pits!
· Wool, this is a tough one. Wool is warm-ish when wet but it is “hydrophilic”, never dries without a heat source and weighs a ton! It doesn’t get niffy as some of the man-made fabrics do and won’t melt but all in all it has been superseded by fleece. See below.
· Leather, it is hopeless as an outer layer of clothing, hot in summer, cold in winter, never dries or if force dried becomes a suit of armour.



· THE GOOD GUYS

· Polypropylene, this is great for next to the skin wear on wet trips, it wicks away moisture in seconds and dries fantastically fast. Most often seen as “Lifa”, the close fitting, blue, long sleeve T shirt and long johns with the white stripes on the sleeve by Helly Hanson. Look for cheaper versions they are available. You can rinse it in the river or loch and put it straight back on after wringing it quickly and you’re good to go. Also makes excellent liner socks for first rate moisture management. It does get niffy, however, this is a small price to pay for first rate performance when paddling in chilly weather.
· Polyester, this is the best all-rounder. As fleece, Polartech, or other micro fibres it is hard to beat for thermal properties. It’s tough, light, cheap, warm when wet and is “hydrophobic” which means it hates water and dries really quickly. As “Coolmax” it is more pricey but will keep you warm and dry.
· Pertex, a finely woven, windproof, shower-proof material that makes a fantastic garment when combined with a plain fleece inner layer. Buffalo brand is brilliant but again look out for cheaper versions on the market e.g. Mardale or Trax. This is the mainstay of wilderness canoeing gear in changeable weather.
· Acrylic, poor man’s wool. Brilliant! Cheap as chips, warm, tough, dries quickly.


CLOTHING HINTS

· Hats – You need 2, a broad brimmed one to keep the sun off your nose and ears and to stop the rain running down your face and back, it will also hold your bug net away from your face; a woolly one (Acrylic / fleece) for warmth in the evening.

· Wet Weather jacket and trousers – You do not need to spend a fortune on “membrane” technology. Vinyl, P U coated nylon will not stop working after a few days and a quick shake gets the wet off. Go for cheap and cheerful but with taped seams. Also go for a baggy fit so you can sling it on over your BA (NOT in white water!) and it allows the air to circulate and thereby reduce condensation.

· Socks – Merino wool / Coolmax mix are fantastic but can be pricey. Acryllic and nylon work a treat, are tough and dry really quickly. Wool, comfy but oh so slow drying. Cotton, useless!

· Footwear – Everyone has an opinion on this subject, but a good combination is: either combat boots or even “muckers” from a riding or farm shop they’re cheap, flexible but waterproof, tough enough for the woods and have a proper heel block to save sliding on the portage. River sandals for when its hot (beware sunburn!) and or trainers in the evenings to let your feet breathe. If it’s buggy wear sandals with socks (but you might be mistaken for a vicar!)

· Gloves – Gardening gloves are great around camp when sorting the fire collecting wood and avoiding bugs. Sore hands are a pain to paddle with.

KIT IDEAS

· Plate – Hard plastic or wood could well be in little bits after the first portage or someone drops a boat on your pack so go for a bowl, stainless steel dog bowl or 20cm balti dish, either is ideal.
· Mug – Again, simple steel mug perfect. Thermal mugs are OK but can be a tad fragile and hard to keep hygienic. Avoid aluminium it will burn your lip! Kuksa, lovely, step on it once – finito!
· Spoon – Stainless steel is ideal, it will cut food in your bowl and is hygienic, I never bother with a fork and eating knife and have never missed them. Your choice!
· Torch – LED head torches are compact, lightweight, ridiculously long battery life and brilliant for finding your way to the loo at night or reading in bed. They needn’t be expensive look for a “Carp-lighter” in your local fishing shop.
· Candles – low tech, effective, stick a stumpy fat one in your gear.
· Loo paper – Individual packs of tissues great, one pack per day for all needs. Bog roll; drop it once in wet heather and its sphagnum time!
· Books, - Do take your journal and a book
· Fishing gear – Hand lines or a compact telescopic rod and spinners.


Remember if in doubt, leave it out!

Jed
 

C_Claycomb

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I am a HUGE fan of Permethrin. I get stuff that is meant for nets and dilute it down. I dusted off my A-level chemistry and measure it out with a graduated pipet according to a formula which gives 0.5%, which is what is wanted for clothing treatment.

In New Zealand last November I tried Autan instead of DEET based repellent and found that it was effective against sand flies (black flies) except there it washed off my hands. It was MUCH nicer to use than DEET, and according to the blurb is as effective without the side effects of toxicity and dissolving plastics.

The NZ sand flies cannot bite through clothing, so didn't need a bug suit. Used a Buff that came ready treated with Permethrin and that kept flies away from head and neck.

When I have not needed to jump in and out of the boat through the day to work through shallows I have canoed in hiking boots, but when going in and out of the water I found that mesh/nylon trainers didn't drain well enough and shipped a cup of water into the boat with each foot, got so annoyed that I carried out battle-field surgery and created some triangular drain holes. They weren't much good for anything else after that trip.

I didn't try them, but saw in SportFish some polypro socks by Simms designed for wet wading.

I wet waded a fair bit in NZ using Simms neoprene wading socks in my Lundhags with polypro long johns and Columbia Silver Ridge light nylon trousers over the top. I have happily used the 65/35 Kiwi trousers for canoe trips, but those 100% nylon ones handled getting wet loads better. Have used some stretch nylon hiking trousers by Rohan for last May's trip in Sweden and they worked well too, but were heavier than the Columbias (which also have good zip off legs, which I wanted). I don't think the Columbias would offer more than a second of resistance to a mossie though :(
 
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oldsoldier

Forager
Jan 29, 2007
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MA
I dont think you stand much chance of falling out of the canoe, unless you're VERY inexperienced. I would suggest simple nylon running shorts. I would be far more concerned with the mosquitoes in Canada than anything else. Legend has it they have carried away unwary travelers!!!
I dont know the river, nor the route, but plan on some portaging. When I am in my canoe, I am usually barefoot, with cheap flip flops (thongs) for when I have to get out. This protects my feet, and, well, the cheap ones float :). I also keep a pair of trainers (sneakers) for portaging, if needed.
 

Hibrion

Maker
Jan 11, 2012
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8
Ireland
Some fantastic info here guys, thanks. Chris, our kit list for this trip is very similar to yours.

Is there any truth to the so called bug proofed clothing? Not bug suits, but shirts and trousers supposedly treated to repell the pesky little things.

I'm tempted to raise some cash and try for one of these buffalo topa that are coming so highly regarded. Any particular model to keep an eye out for?

Also. How do you all feel about all-in-one waterproofs? I have some pretty decent gear for the bike that is like this and it would be large enough to go over the floatation device too.
 

UKdave

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Mar 9, 2006
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Ontario, Canada
Others will have various views but for me I like to paddle with as little upper clothing as possible, a couple of reason and explanations.

Chaffing, this can be a big issue, whilst I and my friends dont really suffer from this (experience) we have seen and helped lots of people that have been in bad shape. Depending on the weather and how far from shore we are will determine if I wear my FD, usually I just wear that and nothing under it, but often if we are close to shore I will usually sit on it, dont forget we are paddling lakes so are not susceptible to capsizing and I havnt capsized yet, rivers are a different matter, and I would wear one all the time ( when I was much younger I was a whitewater rafting guide and would never ever go on the river without one regardless what I was doing ).

Again your guide will be good for any info or you could try joining http://www.songofthepaddle.co.uk/
 

C_Claycomb

Moderator staff
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Oct 6, 2003
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I have never suffered from chaffing either. Not heard any of the people I paddle with mention it either. Wonder if it is temperature driven, since our trips have been April, May, June and September and we have only had a hand full of t-shirt weather days.

I don't have any Buffalo clothing, I have paddled with people who do and who really rate it. However I have never been tempted to buy any because I don't get out in cold enough weather often enough for it to seem like a good investment for me. I tend to run fairly warm while paddling and have done well with nylon wind-shirts over the top of light fleeces, which lets me thermo regulate a bit more. My first day of expedition paddling was windy, drizzly and slightly miserable on Loch Morar, despite it being June, and I was fine in a very elderly (10 y/o) Polartec 200 with a Paramo Parameta-A shirt over the top. The foam filled buoyancy aid kept my core warm and the fleece didn't soak water through from the shirt. Dried well. One of the other guys wearing I-don't-know-what wound up border-line hypothermic that day.

After a wet day paddling, don't be too quick to change into dry gear when you get to camp. That first day a couple of chaps changed out of their wet paddling gear when we got to camp, but it was still pouring and by the end of the evening all their clothes were wet.

I am rather a fan of the Paramo gear, got quite a lot, but always on sale. It is pricey and I am not always convinced that it is justifiably better than a £20 Polartec 100 and shell.

One thing I really like from their range is the Torres smock, which is meant to dump on over the top of your wet gear when you need to warm up. That works and is a lot warmer than trying to layer fleeces under a coat, which is what I used to do when in camp.


I think that the bug proofed clothing does work, they use permethrin or similar, and can get it to stay in the fabric for longer than home treatment, however I have heard there can be quite a variation in how long it lasts, from one brand to another. I think Rohan stuff is good.

All in one waterproof? You mean like a waterproof onesy/romper suit? I would think that would be bad in a boat. If there is white water you might want water-proof trousers but no top, and if the weather comes on to change you might want to throw a top on over everything quickly without a lot of wobbling around messing with legs.
 

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