Do you really think any legislation will make the differentiation between work knives and personal use knives?
Update- Carrying of knives
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Do you really think any legislation will make the differentiation between work knives and personal use knives?
so.... ifin this guy hadn't had a knife on him......bye bye missus
http://wbztv.com/local/Car.wash.rescue.2.932096.html
An' this poor chap would have fried.
http://www.newcanaannews-review.com/ci_11688654
I think the whole point o' this thread is ifin ye do carry a knife...be it a slipjoint or whatever on yer person.....legal or not.....keep it hidden from joe public.
http://wbztv.com/local/Car.wash.rescue.2.932096.html
An' this poor chap would have fried.
http://www.newcanaannews-review.com/ci_11688654
I think the whole point o' this thread is ifin ye do carry a knife...be it a slipjoint or whatever on yer person.....legal or not.....keep it hidden from joe public.
I permanently carry a Leatherman Squirt P4 on me at all times and find it infinitely useful- not only for the tools it offers but also for having the blade with me (1 1/2") blade.
Cap'n Badger
Two links to two potential killers - both of them are part of the problem, a threat, and should be prosecuted with extreme prejudice if caught by the police.
Just the kind of thing I had in mind, thanks for the links.
wanderingblade - I actually do think it would make a distinction, at least at first anyway.
The biggest risk at the moment is for people who carry a knife for non-work reasons (or no reason in the case of the typical EDC slippie).
Political correctness would probably keep the religious defence in place (at least for Sikhs). I could see Scots being told to leave the Sgian Dubh out of the national dress except in some very restricted situations.
I can very easilly see the law changing to say noone is allowed to carry a knife for recreational reasons. Possibly making an exception for fishing as it is such a widely practiced pastime, but not necessarily so.
I sincerely hope it won't go that way, and I'll be getting on the case of my local terminally-useless MP just to make the (completely futile in his case) point.
Two links to two potential killers - both of them are part of the problem, a threat, and should be prosecuted with extreme prejudice if caught by the police.
Just the kind of thing I had in mind, thanks for the links.
wanderingblade - I actually do think it would make a distinction, at least at first anyway.
The biggest risk at the moment is for people who carry a knife for non-work reasons (or no reason in the case of the typical EDC slippie).
Political correctness would probably keep the religious defence in place (at least for Sikhs). I could see Scots being told to leave the Sgian Dubh out of the national dress except in some very restricted situations.
I can very easilly see the law changing to say noone is allowed to carry a knife for recreational reasons. Possibly making an exception for fishing as it is such a widely practiced pastime, but not necessarily so.
I sincerely hope it won't go that way, and I'll be getting on the case of my local terminally-useless MP just to make the (completely futile in his case) point.
The only answer that I can give to that is that 95% of my "in public" has to do with work and is in and around the West End of London. The "other times" are 5% of the time, it sits on my belt and for the "other times" I've either forgotten to take it off or considered that if I did take it off, I would probably forget to put it back on for when I needed it.
Not sure how well that latter bit would fare against a police officers perceptions, but then as I stated earlier, I've not been stopped and searched in the last 30 years. When sitting down and talking about it on here, it occurs to me that perhaps it might be a good idea to take it off, but when it actually comes to the time to think that it might be a good idea, that thought has long since left me.
I suppose that, because I use it as a tool so much, it never occurs to me to see it as a weapon. Other people's perspectives obviously are going to differ.
Simon - I know what you mean there.
My guess is, if you got a good copper they'd give you the kind of mildly patronising but otherwise sensible talking to only a decent copper can deliver...
"You're obviously not the type, they are bloody useful, but you're on a crowded bus in the West End and taking the **** a bit. Next time don't forget about it."
(Obviously I'm not a copper, but I'm sure you can imagine the kind of thing I mean)
If you got the other sort you'd be clapped in irons and dragged off to the nick.
Alternatively you might be given the option to surrender it and take a caution, though the memo at the start of this thread seems to suggest you'd be lucky to get that too.
My apporach would probably be similar to my fixed blade knives and my axe.
If I'm going out and will need them they go out of sight until I get there at which point I'll put the one I'll be using most on my belt. When going into a more public area but still with "good reason" it comes back off my belt and back into my bag (or sometimes an inside pocket).
It's a royal pain in the backside and I completely and utterly resent the fact I could end up in hot water just for having a tool on my belt, but that's the stupid laws we live under and the hysteria-prone public we live alongside.
Pity.
My guess is, if you got a good copper they'd give you the kind of mildly patronising but otherwise sensible talking to only a decent copper can deliver...
"You're obviously not the type, they are bloody useful, but you're on a crowded bus in the West End and taking the **** a bit. Next time don't forget about it."
(Obviously I'm not a copper, but I'm sure you can imagine the kind of thing I mean)
If you got the other sort you'd be clapped in irons and dragged off to the nick.
Alternatively you might be given the option to surrender it and take a caution, though the memo at the start of this thread seems to suggest you'd be lucky to get that too.
My apporach would probably be similar to my fixed blade knives and my axe.
If I'm going out and will need them they go out of sight until I get there at which point I'll put the one I'll be using most on my belt. When going into a more public area but still with "good reason" it comes back off my belt and back into my bag (or sometimes an inside pocket).
It's a royal pain in the backside and I completely and utterly resent the fact I could end up in hot water just for having a tool on my belt, but that's the stupid laws we live under and the hysteria-prone public we live alongside.
Pity.
Police already have a pretty dim view of 'live' sgian dubhs. Given that most folk are dressed up for weddings, they quite rightly think that a bunch of armed and tanked-up teuchters attending not only a social event but one involving in-laws is a bad idea. Most of the dress sgian dubhs you come across these days are letter openers.
Out of curiosity I had a blether yesterday with a couple of the retired coppers I work with - tossing scenarios around. The replies I got were pretty much as I expected:
Carrying a fixed blade along with your camping gear wouldn't raise many eyebrows but they'd like to see them packed away while travelling, especially on public transport.
Forgetting you had one on your belt and stoating about safeways wearing it would raise some eyebrows and waving a billhook at folk in the city centre is apparently a no-no.
Personaly I've never had any problem with whatever laws there are out there(not saying they're good or bad, just that I doubt if I'll ever be affected by them). I've never been stopped and searched for any reason and never felt unsure of whether I had "good reason".
I don't carry anything if I'm out in town for the night or off to a gig, carry a penknife for general bimbling and carry anything I like if I'm away camping.
The other thing is; I'm well aware of the occasions, that for what ever reason, I have taken it off my belt or left my knife in my desk, and then a time has come to need it, it isn't there and I kick myself for forgetting to pick it up.
This is the main reason why I would err towards the side of, making sure it is always with me rather than trying to remember to take it off and put it back all the time.
I'm well aware of the possible implications, my attitude towards it is to carry on doing what I do and deal with the consequences if I ever have to.
This is the main reason why I would err towards the side of, making sure it is always with me rather than trying to remember to take it off and put it back all the time.
I'm well aware of the possible implications, my attitude towards it is to carry on doing what I do and deal with the consequences if I ever have to.
Simon, seems fair enough. I still think it's bloody daft that the likes of you, me and most (if not all) of the users of this forum, and in fact, the vast majority of the population of the UK even need to think like this.
Utter insanity.
Grooveski - pretty much what I'd expect to hear, I'd hazard a guess they come into the "decent coppers" category though - they are the ones I've got no worries about being dragged in by.
I should add, I got stopped by a traffic cop the other day, no bother at all, didn't search me, ask my details or anything. Once he saw the 50 somethings I was giving a lift to (taking them home from the pub, I was stone cold sober) he probably figured I wasn't the boy racer/thief type despite being relatively young, looking younger and driving a fairly new car.
Good cop
It wasn't until I was pulling away again that I remembered the pocket knife I had on me, I don't imagine I'd have had any bother about it, but still - I could easilly have found out how things work the hard way.
Utter insanity.
Grooveski - pretty much what I'd expect to hear, I'd hazard a guess they come into the "decent coppers" category though - they are the ones I've got no worries about being dragged in by.
I should add, I got stopped by a traffic cop the other day, no bother at all, didn't search me, ask my details or anything. Once he saw the 50 somethings I was giving a lift to (taking them home from the pub, I was stone cold sober) he probably figured I wasn't the boy racer/thief type despite being relatively young, looking younger and driving a fairly new car.
Good cop
It wasn't until I was pulling away again that I remembered the pocket knife I had on me, I don't imagine I'd have had any bother about it, but still - I could easilly have found out how things work the hard way.
That is the dangerous naivety I was trying to warn people against in my earlier post. There was a case in Glasgow a few years back involving a joiner who nipped out to the shops on his lunch-break. He got lifted by a passing patrol who noticed the hammer and stanley knife attached to his tool belt. The case went to court and he was found guilty despite proving that he was working on a nearby site and used the tools in the course of his job. I can't recall what the sentence was and it may only have been a fine but I bet he wishes he'd left his belt on site as the court decided he should have done. There may well have been individuals involved in his prosecution that felt that the police had been over-zealous and that the law in this instance was perhaps unfair but they still applied it.
Only a couple of years younger and I have carried a pen knife since I was five and a Swiss Army Knife since I was 21. Its just a habit, and to be fair I probably use the scissors, screwdirver, cork screw etc more than the blade.
But I do use the blade for cutting string, opening parcels, destroying an "automatic recoil" attachment thingy on my mouse lead that went wrong in the middle of a presentation, and kept on throwing my mouse to the back of the computer.
I have used it several times to cut free trapped wild and domestic animals, on one occasion a dog had got its leg trapped through its collar, and although I never found out exactly where all the blood was coming from I was able to quickly cut through the collar and release the leg, before the owner took it to the vet. No idea who they were, I was just passing in the street and helped out.
I could go on with this list, but given the number of years I have carried a pocket knife its rather long.
Is it "essential" I have a pocket knife, well no, but I do find it very useful and would feel a bit lost without it.
Graham
Myotis...
A few good examples of just how useful pocket knives are. Cheers.
Before this mini-rant (and it will be mini) I have to say, you're right and that's most probably why he was prosecuted and found guilty.
Rant begins...
...if he had left his tool belt on site and some/all of it had been stolen he would have been out of pocket (no insurance would have covered it as it was left unattended).
...if he had left his tool belt on site and someone had mis-used it he probably would have been blamed for leaving it unattended.
The most sensible and safest thing for him to do was keep his tools with him where they were protected from damage, theft and mis-use.
Just another element of why I think the laws relating to these things (or at least the application of those laws, but I think that's being a bit too generous) are so utterly stupid.
A man who had done no harm to anyone, prosecuted for carrying something he owned. No harm done, no theft, nothing! Makes my blood boil!
...rant ends.
A few good examples of just how useful pocket knives are. Cheers.
Unlucky.
However the man wasn't going to, or coming from, work.
Before this mini-rant (and it will be mini) I have to say, you're right and that's most probably why he was prosecuted and found guilty.
Rant begins...
...if he had left his tool belt on site and some/all of it had been stolen he would have been out of pocket (no insurance would have covered it as it was left unattended).
...if he had left his tool belt on site and someone had mis-used it he probably would have been blamed for leaving it unattended.
The most sensible and safest thing for him to do was keep his tools with him where they were protected from damage, theft and mis-use.
Just another element of why I think the laws relating to these things (or at least the application of those laws, but I think that's being a bit too generous) are so utterly stupid.
A man who had done no harm to anyone, prosecuted for carrying something he owned. No harm done, no theft, nothing! Makes my blood boil!
...rant ends.
The bank of England has announced that its to start printing money and we are "concerned about knife law" . Sun readers are concerned about whether the 13 yr old is really the father of the child by a 15 yr old.
We re going to end up like bleeding Zimbabwe if we are not careful, the knife legislation could end being a good thing, the last thing you want is loadsa scrotes everywhere with knives trying to nick your new Nike trainers and your shopping when you come out of Sainsburys. Has anyone considered this could be the reason why all of a sudden its at the forefront of policy decision making?
We re going to end up like bleeding Zimbabwe if we are not careful, the knife legislation could end being a good thing, the last thing you want is loadsa scrotes everywhere with knives trying to nick your new Nike trainers and your shopping when you come out of Sainsburys. Has anyone considered this could be the reason why all of a sudden its at the forefront of policy decision making?
:yikes: Great!......It just gets better eh?...tsk!
I've had three 'legal' knives taken from me by the peelers in the last year...Not been arrested yet tho...Apparently....even if you ARE returnin' from work dressed in Cardiff Council Parks uniform......they won't belive 'Gardeners' use knives fer prunin', openin' compost bags or gettin' thorns from under the skin......
God forbid they catch me loadin' the van t' go t' the moots!.....10 years at least
That is truly insane! Even if it is obviously a tool, needed for your job? The slippery slope has just been slid down...! Move To Canada, we have more sane rules!
It out weights the whole Bear, Mountain Lions, Randy Moose thing!
!
One problem with that Barney; the scrotes will ignore that legislation just like all the rest of the laws.
I do genuingly believe there is a difference between locked up in the boot of my car than hanging from my belt and going into a town centre shop.
And what may be interpreted as naivety, is far from it, it's a judgement call. I know a few cops in Glasgow and outwith and they have all told me that they wouldn't pursue if as I described earlier on as long as it was reasonable...ie no other circumstances or record of offences involving weapons, no cause for alarm etc they would just advise "we could...so don't do it because next time...we would" as they just don't want the hassle or to hassle ordinary cirtizens. However I do take your point. Barney...
...please establish a link between knife law and a reduction in the number of criminals carrying knives. (You know, the ones who already ignore all the relevant laws about theft/robbery, violence and so on)
Any thieving mugger/scrote who intends to use a knife already does in spite of the current knife laws and would continue to do so under the stricter knife laws most of the hysteria-prone media and members of the public are or would be pushing for.
Why is it at the forefront of policy decision making?
1> Bad news sells.
2> "Crime Waves" of bad news sell even more.
3> Papers, TV and Radio news tell all the bad news they can to sell more papers or get a bigger audience.
4> News media SERIOUSLY overstate the problem, in the process inventing a new bogeyman for us to be protected from by our-friend-the-government.
5> Blaming the criminal is not PC (especially if they are young) and not outrageous enough so they blame the tool of the crime instead.
6> Media calls for "something to be done" about the newly invented evil "knife crime".
7> Public then calls for "something to be done".
8> Politician pays it lip service.
9> Media and public call for "real action" after "yet another brutal stabbing".
10> Politicians think "bloody hell, we're gonna get voted out at this rate" and make a proper proposal.
11> Opposition politicians accuse government of "not doing enough" and pledge to "do" even more
12> So escalates an arms-war of "being seen to be doing something" most of which focusses on the tool of crime as opposed to the criminal or the causes.
I'm not just concerned about knife law.
I'm concerned about scumbag politicians, journalists, editors and spineless letter-writers calling for my freedoms to be curtailed when everyone with any sense of history and reality knows it won't make a blind bit of difference except to further tighten the grip the legislature has on the law abiding public.
This goes for the ID/Database state, knife laws, gun laws, taxation, carbon (the whole lightbulb ban farce and much more besides), hunting bans, the whole "terrorism" bogeyman and so on.
The Bank of England printing more (counterfeit) money is another thing that concerns me, but that is a historic problem and one somewhat unconnected to the issue of civil liberty (which is one of the major elements of the objection to current knife law and the tightening thereof) unless you buy into one or another of the conspiracy theories floating around.
...please establish a link between knife law and a reduction in the number of criminals carrying knives. (You know, the ones who already ignore all the relevant laws about theft/robbery, violence and so on)
Any thieving mugger/scrote who intends to use a knife already does in spite of the current knife laws and would continue to do so under the stricter knife laws most of the hysteria-prone media and members of the public are or would be pushing for.
Why is it at the forefront of policy decision making?
1> Bad news sells.
2> "Crime Waves" of bad news sell even more.
3> Papers, TV and Radio news tell all the bad news they can to sell more papers or get a bigger audience.
4> News media SERIOUSLY overstate the problem, in the process inventing a new bogeyman for us to be protected from by our-friend-the-government.
5> Blaming the criminal is not PC (especially if they are young) and not outrageous enough so they blame the tool of the crime instead.
6> Media calls for "something to be done" about the newly invented evil "knife crime".
7> Public then calls for "something to be done".
8> Politician pays it lip service.
9> Media and public call for "real action" after "yet another brutal stabbing".
10> Politicians think "bloody hell, we're gonna get voted out at this rate" and make a proper proposal.
11> Opposition politicians accuse government of "not doing enough" and pledge to "do" even more
12> So escalates an arms-war of "being seen to be doing something" most of which focusses on the tool of crime as opposed to the criminal or the causes.
I'm not just concerned about knife law.
I'm concerned about scumbag politicians, journalists, editors and spineless letter-writers calling for my freedoms to be curtailed when everyone with any sense of history and reality knows it won't make a blind bit of difference except to further tighten the grip the legislature has on the law abiding public.
This goes for the ID/Database state, knife laws, gun laws, taxation, carbon (the whole lightbulb ban farce and much more besides), hunting bans, the whole "terrorism" bogeyman and so on.
The Bank of England printing more (counterfeit) money is another thing that concerns me, but that is a historic problem and one somewhat unconnected to the issue of civil liberty (which is one of the major elements of the objection to current knife law and the tightening thereof) unless you buy into one or another of the conspiracy theories floating around.
One problem with that Barney; the scrotes will ignore that legislation just like all the rest of the laws.
Good point, Here we are trying ( very close ) to getting rid of our gun registry, it causes nothing but extra$$$$ for legal, law a bidding gun owners ( Like Me
). The rules we had before were very strict all ready. The Criminals don't get there guns from the hunting store! They get them from smugglers in the USA. You never hear of a legal rifle owner walking into a corner store and robbing the place with his Deer rifle!P.S I love this site, I learn all kinds of New names to jokingly call my Co-workers! LOL.
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