Measuring 3 inches (non-locking); law and practice?

  • Hey Guest, For sale we have Hultafors Outdoor Knives with Firesteel PLEASE LOOK HERE for more information or use the Pay Now button in the sidebar

sunndog

Full Member
May 23, 2014
3,567
471
derbyshire
The best thing to do it get what ever knife you want, walk up to a police officer, tell them you have a knife in your pocket and you want them to check it. You’ll either be in brother, or you won’t. Good luck.

Does this need sarcasm font?

Clearly not the best thing to do. All you would be doing is asking one mans opinion....a more than likely biased one at that
 

Tony

White bear (Admin)
Admin
Apr 16, 2003
22,375
828
50
Wales
www.bushcraftuk.com
I think that was the exit of a man that deals with this stuff day in day out and gets told he's wrong and his opinion dismissed (I could be wrong though). Also, the thread has gone off in a tangent that's removed form the original question and that makes it hard going if one has an opinion on a specific type of knife rather than shanks...

I still think it's the cutting edge myself :D
 

Corso

Full Member
Aug 13, 2007
5,013
346
none
Google "arrested screwdriver" or "brandishing screwdriver". I cannot you have not heard of screwdrivers being used. How about a "shank" ?

why do people just not get it?

If you use anything and I mean anything as a weapon it becomes one in the law and the media will run with it

however only certain in-animate objects are lalbeled weapons by law - Case law decided a screwdriver did not fall into the same group regardless of having some of the perceved features
 

sunndog

Full Member
May 23, 2014
3,567
471
derbyshire
I think that was the exit of a man that deals with this stuff day in day out and gets told he's wrong and his opinion dismissed (I could be wrong though). Also, the thread has gone off in a tangent that's removed form the original question and that makes it hard going if one has an opinion on a specific type of knife rather than shanks...

I still think it's the cutting edge myself :D

If I were dealing with something day in day out and I was right I'd expect to have a watertight argument. Also if it is his opinion rather than verifiable facts then folks have a right to dismiss it in favour of their own :D
 

Corso

Full Member
Aug 13, 2007
5,013
346
none
I think that was the exit of a man that deals with this stuff day in day out and gets told he's wrong and his opinion dismissed (I could be wrong though). Also, the thread has gone off in a tangent that's removed form the original question and that makes it hard going if one has an opinion on a specific type of knife rather than shanks...

I still think it's the cutting edge myself :D

But he was wrong, you cannot take bits of different laws and make a new one that suits your opinion. Its quite scary that somone in authority thinks thats ok

For them, their career and for the public.

I've had many a conversation with Police officers, Barristers, JP's and even a court Judge and at no point has anyone played the back spring is a closing safety feature stopping a slipjoint knife being a gravity knife card?

Besides all friction folders it would make Opinels no 2 through to 5 illegal and there must be millions of them out there
 
Last edited:

Broch

Full Member
Jan 18, 2009
4,094
3,260
Mid Wales
Besides all friction folders it would make Opinels no 2 through to 5 illegal and there must be millions of them out there

OK, now I'm confused and I thought I understood this; I thought Opinel knives, even the smaller ones, were all illegal because they lock or do they make models without the twist lock? (you can tell I've never owned an Opinel).
 

Corso

Full Member
Aug 13, 2007
5,013
346
none
OK, now I'm confused and I thought I understood this; I thought Opinel knives, even the smaller ones, were all illegal because they lock or do they make models without the twist lock? (you can tell I've never owned an Opinel).

You realy are confused LOL none of them are 'illegal' you would just have to have good reason to carry one that locks.

no5 and below do not have lock rings - the lock ring/virobloc was invented by Marcel Opinel in 1955 before then none of the models locked -jou don't need the ring to have a perfectly funtional knife - infact a fair few on BB used to take the ring off a number 6 as the hnadle was a better legh so it complied with the edc legislation
 

Broch

Full Member
Jan 18, 2009
4,094
3,260
Mid Wales
You realy are confused LOL none of them are 'illegal' you would just have to have good reason to carry one that locks.

Yes, sorry, lazy writing - I'm fully aware of the 'good reason to carry' part of the law. Thanks for the clarity on the Opinels.
 

sunndog

Full Member
May 23, 2014
3,567
471
derbyshire
But he was wrong, you cannot take bits of different laws and make a new one that suits your opinion. Its quite scary that somone in authority thinks thats ok

For them, their career and for the public.

I've had many a conversation with Police officers, Barristers, JP's and even a court Judge and at no point has anyone played the back spring is a closing safety feature stopping a slipjoint knife being a gravity knife card?

Besides all friction folders it would make Opinels no 2 through to 5 illegal and there must be millions of them out there

To be fair mate you used the "illegal" word there and possibly caused the confusion
My pet peeve in these discussions is the word illegal when talking about knives that aren't
 

Corso

Full Member
Aug 13, 2007
5,013
346
none
no worries appologies for jumping on the illegal phrase it just get missusded alot even by those in the know
 

Corso

Full Member
Aug 13, 2007
5,013
346
none
To be fair mate you used the "illegal" word there and possibly caused the confusion
My pet peeve in these discussions is the word illegal when talking about knives that aren't

It's my pet peeve when people jump in to a thread and take something complety out of context :)

maybe read the whole thread?

I was offering an example of an opinel no 5 as a knife that is perfectly legal but by woody110's article and later comments would be an illegal gravity knife because it does not have a backspring - which is crazy
 
  • Like
Reactions: santaman2000

pieinthesky

Forager
Jun 29, 2014
116
22
Northants
The only thing all this discussion proves is that there is a lot of ambiguity, nobody really knows.

In which case it seems sensible to play safe and not have to worry about it.

So make sure both A and B (blade length and cutting edge length) are under 3" and you can't go wrong
 
  • Like
Reactions: Corso

Corso

Full Member
Aug 13, 2007
5,013
346
none
The only thing all this discussion proves is that there is a lot of ambiguity, nobody really knows.

In which case it seems sensible to play safe and not have to worry about it.

So make sure both A and B (blade length and cutting edge length) are under 3" and you can't go wrong


That is probably the safest answer until a court case
 
Jan 13, 2018
358
250
63
Rural Lincolnshire
The best thing to do it get what ever knife you want, walk up to a police officer, tell them you have a knife in your pocket and you want them to check it. You’ll either be in brother, or you won’t. Good luck.

The job of the Police is to apply / implement the law, not to make their own interpretation.

A few years ago the Firearms manager of our local force answered some of my questions about importing a firearm which were totally incorrect (according to the Government Home Office instruction)
He then compounded this by saying that if I removed the stock from a rifle I would have to resubmit it for "proof testing" which is a load of codswollop. After months of arguing I eventually got the proof house to write a letter stating that the stock should be removed (to avoid damaging the wood) BEFORE sending it for proof testing.
If the Firearms Manager was correct in his assertion, re-fitting the stock on its return from the proof-house would require me to remove the stock and resubmit it for proofing, once I received it back I could refit the stock and …………………………...

Shortly after this debacle he was moved to 'other duties'.

The Police do not make the law, interpret the law or even understand the law (they cannot know every law on the 'books').
Never ask them a question which may result in an answer you don't want to hear.
 

sunndog

Full Member
May 23, 2014
3,567
471
derbyshire
Corso.
I did read the whole thread, why would you be so positive that I didn't?....maybe ask first rather than jumping to conclusions?

Also jumping in on a thread? There's no cut off point where new posters aren't allowed to post in an on going thread lol.
Considering i agree with you theres Some hostility in your reply there dude, you can dial back a bit with those on your side


Gravity knife confusion? Yes I did kind of misquote your post there, apologies
My comment was more aimed at the subsequent posts where it had to be explained what was meant by the use of the word "illegal" as always happens in these threads
 

Broch

Full Member
Jan 18, 2009
4,094
3,260
Mid Wales
My comment was more aimed at the subsequent posts where it had to be explained what was meant by the use of the word "illegal" as always happens in these threads

I don't think anything had to be explained sundog; as I said, a bit of lazy writing on my part for which I apologise. However, from the OP point of view of measuring a 3" blade for a non-locking knife (as the thread is titled) - i.e. a knife one can carry without quoting the 'good reason to carry' reasoning as long as one was not displaying any 'intent', locking Opinels would be illegal.

Anyway, I suspect we all agree in principle, the letter of the law is ambiguous and the detail which we are discussing is not well tested by case law. My every day carry (as in it is always in my jeans pocket) is a non-locking, two handed opening, pocket knife with a blade length of 70mm measured from the tip to the end of the scales (method A) and it does everything I need on a daily basis. I carry different knives when I have good legal reason to do so :). By using that method of measuring I am happy I stand on the right side of the law without ambiguity or discussion.
 

Corso

Full Member
Aug 13, 2007
5,013
346
none
Corso.
I did read the whole thread, why would you be so positive that I didn't?....maybe ask first rather than jumping to conclusions?

Also jumping in on a thread? There's no cut off point where new posters aren't allowed to post in an on going thread lol.
Considering i agree with you theres Some hostility in your reply there dude, you can dial back a bit with those on your side


Gravity knife confusion? Yes I did kind of misquote your post there, apologies
My comment was more aimed at the subsequent posts where it had to be explained what was meant by the use of the word "illegal" as always happens in these threads

Sorry bad head cold has left me grumpy - I think I'll quit posting until I'm better thats the second time i've done that
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mark Baigent

sunndog

Full Member
May 23, 2014
3,567
471
derbyshire
I don't think anything had to be explained sundog; as I said, a bit of lazy writing on my part for which I apologise. However, from the OP point of view of measuring a 3" blade for a non-locking knife (as the thread is titled) - i.e. a knife one can carry without quoting the 'good reason to carry' reasoning as long as one was not displaying any 'intent', locking Opinels would be illegal.

Anyway, I suspect we all agree in principle, the letter of the law is ambiguous and the detail which we are discussing is not well tested by case law. My every day carry (as in it is always in my jeans pocket) is a non-locking, two handed opening, pocket knife with a blade length of 70mm measured from the tip to the end of the scales (method A) and it does everything I need on a daily basis. I carry different knives when I have good legal reason to do so :). By using that method of measuring I am happy I stand on the right side of the law without ambiguity or discussion.

I agree but the confusion always arises when someone posts "illegal knife" and then it has to explained what an illegal knife is versus an edc knife.
Plus for a locking folder or whatever to be illegal you need another set of circumstances to come into play...you have no easily explainable reason for carrying it.
It's Akin to calling a car illegal because you're tresspassing with it or because you're driving it on the roads without road tax

Saying "non edc knife" or similar is much more descriptive
I'm thinking here of the thousands of people who could see this on Google and jump to the wrong conclusions.
Mate of mine is a market trader selling kitchen stuff. He gets told by passersby that his kitchen knives are illegal on the weekly....still, it started in 1997 or whenever it was and moronic folks still shout this stuff at him
 

SaraR

Full Member
Mar 25, 2017
642
393
Ceredigion
just because the seller has told you it's uk legal carry, doesn't mean it is. :)
No of course not, but seeing as I got this one from EDCgear I thought they would be fairly reliable. I would normally go for something that had a 2.5" blade to be on the safe side, but it's hard to find ones that don't look overly aggressive.
 

Hultafors Outdoor knife for Sale

We have a a number of Hultafors Outdoor Knives with Firesteels

You can see more details here in this thread OUTDOOR KNIVES

The price is £27 and you can pay via the paypal button below.