Carrying pocket tools just in case
- Thread starter chewie
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Zammo said:
Using a knife to "defend" yourself is using it as a weapon, so it instantly falls under the Offensive Weapons Act. Using it against someone would probably also count as assault with a deadly weapon, and you're quite likely to end up inflicting greivous bodily harm. Go to jail, go directly to jail, do not pass go, do not collect £200. Expect the judge to make an example of you.
Using a knife to "defend" yourself is also totally stupid. It just raises the stakes, and increases the risk all round. Unless you're an extremely skilled martial artist you're as likely to hurt yourself as the other guy.
Self defense uses the minimum amount of force necessary. A knife is never going to be the minimum amount of force, because it's potentially deadly. Killing or seriously injuring someone for the sake of the contents of your pockets is not self defense, it's vigilantism.
The old Crocodile Dundee trick ("That's not a knife, this is a knife") only works in the movies. Try it in real life and you're going to find yourself in a whole heap of trouble.
Usual disclaimers apply: Just my own opinions. I am not a lawyer, police officer, expert, etc...
Unfortunately the majority of London muggers are not just content with stealing your wallet but also kicking the cra*p out of the person they mug. But anyhow the scope of the law probably isn't worth discussing here. But I just find it a little irratating that if someone attempts to mug you with a knife and then you pull a weapon to defend yourself, you then become the criminal and he is the innocent party.
In the bushcraft context, a knife is a tool, never a weapon. Knives as weapons is for sites other than this one IMO.
Zammo said:
No, you're both criminals. But mugging or common assault are less serious crimes than assault with a deadly weapon, inflicting greivous bodily harm, or manslaughter. This isn't the Wild West, and British law does not look kindly upon people who take the law into their own hands.
Anyway, lets try and keep this thread on track...
Right guys, can we get this thread back on topic, chewie started this one to review s139 compliant tools and there is currently more talk of the law than the stated reason for this thread.
Nicely put. I EDC a SAK Farmer just like the one shown in your picture chewie. I did have a Soldier for a while but missed the saw that I used to have on my locking SAK (Outrider). I do like the Alox SAKs. The only thing they don't have is a corkscrew!
I've just (today) got hold of a Leatherman P4 Squirt, which looks very useful in a tiny size - smaller than I imagined, but a very good looking tool.
I've just (today) got hold of a Leatherman P4 Squirt, which looks very useful in a tiny size - smaller than I imagined, but a very good looking tool.
Ive suggested this to people before, but, they people if they REALLY wanted to, get one of the annoyingly skilled makers on BB to knock up a replacement blade for them to go in the SAK.
That way, you get the functionality of the SAK and dont have to shell out obscene money for a totally custom made multi blader.
In fact...I may actually stop spouting about it and look into the possibilities myself 
Rgds
That way, you get the functionality of the SAK and dont have to shell out obscene money for a totally custom made multi blader.
In fact...I may actually stop spouting about it and look into the possibilities myself
Rgds
Andy said:the middle two knives here are legal EDC knives with a lot of class (IMHO)
The trouble with these is that although they're technically legal they don't look like something you would need around town and they look like a combat weapon, imo you're more likely to have questions asked for carrying one of these then you are something like an SAK or a squirt.
Nice knives by the way
Matt
Let us just get this straight.
Any person who carries a knife of any sort as an offensive or defensive weapon is a criminal.
They are also an idiot.
Such people are the reason that inner city magistrates decided lock knives were illegal. They are the reason that some sections of the press and public want tighter legislation or a complete ban. They represent the greatest threat to the s139CJA88 exemption for folding pocket knives that I can think of.
Furthermore, they clearly have no idea about real-life aggression - if they did, they would not be stupid enough to think a pocket knife would offer any deterrent value to a street robber. It won't - it will just get the victim a proper beating. Street robbers rely on fear and the threat / use of force to steal. They will select victims they can easily overpower or intimidate, and they are vastly more experienced at this sort of thing than their chosen victim. You very seldom hear of an off-duty SAS trooper getting mugged - although that would appeal to my sense of humour - because your average street robber would take one look at such an individual and move on to lesser prey. Someone acting like a frightened rabbit in headlights, fumbling in panic in their pockets for a knife, will be treated like the push-over they clearly are.
I cannot dissociate myself enough from any suggestion that a knife should be used as a weapon, but I am at least gratified to note the responses of others on this forum to such a suggestion.
Any person who carries a knife of any sort as an offensive or defensive weapon is a criminal.
They are also an idiot.
Such people are the reason that inner city magistrates decided lock knives were illegal. They are the reason that some sections of the press and public want tighter legislation or a complete ban. They represent the greatest threat to the s139CJA88 exemption for folding pocket knives that I can think of.
Furthermore, they clearly have no idea about real-life aggression - if they did, they would not be stupid enough to think a pocket knife would offer any deterrent value to a street robber. It won't - it will just get the victim a proper beating. Street robbers rely on fear and the threat / use of force to steal. They will select victims they can easily overpower or intimidate, and they are vastly more experienced at this sort of thing than their chosen victim. You very seldom hear of an off-duty SAS trooper getting mugged - although that would appeal to my sense of humour - because your average street robber would take one look at such an individual and move on to lesser prey. Someone acting like a frightened rabbit in headlights, fumbling in panic in their pockets for a knife, will be treated like the push-over they clearly are.
I cannot dissociate myself enough from any suggestion that a knife should be used as a weapon, but I am at least gratified to note the responses of others on this forum to such a suggestion.
I use an excellent pocketknife with a 2.5 inch blade (s.139 compliant) which also has a can opener and a thing for punching holes in metal (presumably for very tough cans!! )
Mine was issue by the government in 1940 - so is practically an antique- and is stamped with the year and the government property 'crow foot' (the one that used to be on prisoner's uniforms). I was given it by a neighbour when i was about 10 years old - he was the original soldier it was issued to in WWII.
The main reasons i like it are is its very solid construction, carbon steel so easy to sharpen and the back of the blade is 3mm thick so you can use it to split wood with a batton if you need to.
Probably a bit tricky to get a hold of one these days
)Mine was issue by the government in 1940 - so is practically an antique- and is stamped with the year and the government property 'crow foot' (the one that used to be on prisoner's uniforms). I was given it by a neighbour when i was about 10 years old - he was the original soldier it was issued to in WWII.
The main reasons i like it are is its very solid construction, carbon steel so easy to sharpen and the back of the blade is 3mm thick so you can use it to split wood with a batton if you need to.
Probably a bit tricky to get a hold of one these days
Like this Harmonica? http://www.shefftek.com/bak.html Obviously yours is older, but is this the design?
I agree with what you say chewie with regards to knives as weapons, but think that you shouldn't be able to spot an off duty sas trooper in the street. I'd have thought they should be blending in and looking "grey men" rather than strutting down the street like they're carrying a ladder across their backs!
I agree with what you say chewie with regards to knives as weapons, but think that you shouldn't be able to spot an off duty sas trooper in the street. I'd have thought they should be blending in and looking "grey men" rather than strutting down the street like they're carrying a ladder across their backs!
Yes very similar to that Scanker. The old style tin opener is larger and a different design and mine has plastic on the outside so fits in the hand a bit better but its good to see its basically unchanged in 66 years, must have been perfect from the start!
"Bristish Army Knife - As tough as the troops" I like that!!
"Bristish Army Knife - As tough as the troops" I like that!!
scanker said:I agree with what you say chewie with regards to knives as weapons, but think that you shouldn't be able to spot an off duty sas trooper in the street. I'd have thought they should be blending in and looking "grey men" rather than strutting down the street like they're carrying a ladder across their backs!
You wouldn't spot them for what they specifically are, but you would spot them as 'not-a-victim' from a mile away...
