When you're on the menu. What would you do?

[nic a char]

"survivorman" can be quite funny - "walk like you're not prey"

 

[Nomad64]

IMHO there is a fine line between taking prudent precautions against possible/probable hazards and "prepping" for the worst thing (and spending too much time thinking of worser (sic) things that could possibly happen) however unlikely and threads like this seem to invariably decend into "the things that lurk in the woods in my country have bigger teeth, sharper claws and a badder attitude than the one's that live in yours…"

Statistics can be misleading and you shouldn't believe everything you read on the interweb but it does appear that statistically you are more at risk of dying beneath the hooves of domesticated cattle while walking in the British countryside (at least one a year);

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/nature/hoofed-and-dangerous-britains-killer-cows-1776775.html

than you are being mauled to death by a wild bear in the USA (6 by black bears and 10 by brown since 2010).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America

Even if you add in fatalities caused by wild wolves (1 in Alaska since WW2)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wolf_attacks_in_North_America

and mountain lion deaths (2 since 2010), British cattle statistically present a comparable risk.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_cougar_attacks_in_North_America

Sadly I couldn't find any statistics for the number of people in the US who have shot themselves or a companion after waking up (possibly after a night on the Jack Daniels) and hearing something outside their tent but it appears that shootings by toddlers happen on a weekly basis!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/10/14/people-are-getting-shot-by-toddlers-on-a-weekly-basis-this-year/

Perhaps we're just a bit more stoic on this side of the pond but I am not aware of any calls by the Ramblers for the right to bear arms while exercising their right to roam to defend themselves against deadly bovines - anyway I'm off out after I've put my tin foil lined hard hat to protect against an asteroid landing nearby and/or cosmic radiation.

 

[Toddy]

How would a predator react to one of those incredibly bright little torches shone into their faces ?

M

 

[EddieP]

Ive seen demos of different tents being lit, and what happens to them. Luckily, mines fire retardant, and canvas. Why do you ask? Just trolling?

I think accusing someone who questions a really bad idea of being a troll is missing the whole notion of being a troll. A troll isn't someone who disagrees with you, but someone who goes out of their way to antagonise or inflame.

Lighting a flare in a "combat" situation in a tent is a bad idea, yes a bear in there is also bad, but setting yourself on fire isn't a much better outcome either.

 

[Dave]

Ive completely lost interest in this pedantic conversation now. Good bye.

 

[santaman2000]

Ive seen demos of different tents being lit, and what happens to them. Luckily, mines fire retardant, and canvas. Why do you ask? Just trolling?

A predatory bear sticks its head in. Its gonna eat you. The only thing you have on you is a handheld bear flare.....

The "fire retardent" treatment wears off after just two or three years (how old's yours? It CAN be retreated) As to being in a tent in bear country with only a handheld flare; why? Most "sensible people" wouldn't be in that situation. Like Countryman stated, you adapt to the surroundings (particularly when local laws sometimes require you or some member of your party be armed in said situation)

 

[santaman2000]

How would a predator react to one of those incredibly bright little torches shone into their faces ?

M

I don't think it's ever been studied but it's an interesting question. Maybe frightened away? Maybe frightened/startled/
annoyed into attacking?

 

[santaman2000]

IMHO there is a fine line between taking prudent precautions against possible/probable hazards and "prepping" for the worst thing (and spending too much time thinking of worser (sic) things that could possibly happen) however unlikely and threads like this seem to invariably decend into "the things that lurk in the woods in my country have bigger teeth, sharper claws and a badder attitude than the one's that live in yours…"

Statistics can be misleading and you shouldn't believe everything you read on the interweb but it does appear that statistically you are more at risk of dying beneath the hooves of domesticated cattle while walking in the British countryside (at least one a year);

http://www.independent.co.uk/enviro...d-dangerous-britains-killer-cows-1776775.html

than you are being mauled to death by a wild bear in the USA (6 by black bears and 10 by brown since 2010).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America

That's surprisingly more fatalities than I realized. However it ignores the nonfatal maulings; we've had three black bear maulings right here in Okaloosa County since 2014. Two of them in suburban neighborhoods.

Agreed about the deaths due to cattle.

 

[Toddy]

I don't think it's ever been studied but it's an interesting question. Maybe frightened away? Maybe frightened/startled/
annoyed into attacking?

Son1 (funnily enough he's called Jamie ) has a little one that literally floods a football pitch with light.
Like this.
http://www.wickedlasers.com/torch

You really don't want to be on dazzling side of it.

M

 

[Dave]

As to being in a tent in bear country with only a handheld flare; why?

Most "sensible people" wouldn't be in that situation.

Of course they would.
Because it was winter.
Because they were hibernating.
No-one carried a firearm. They had lived there all their lives.
Because as a tourist I would not be allowed to carry a firearm where I was, in Ontario.

take your pick.

 

[Dave]

Here's Mors take on it.


[video=youtube;_3QT-Nrd9Iw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3QT-Nrd9Iw[/video]

 

[EddieP]

Of course they would.
Because as a tourist I would not be allowed to carry a firearm.

In Greenland, Alaska and Svalbard it's actually quite easy to hire / borrow a suitable firearm.

The importation of suitable firearms into Svalbard and Greenland is easy too. I've not looked into Alaskan law with respect to importation.

I don't know about other countries / states though.

 

[nic a char]

"A troll isn't someone who disagrees with you, but someone who goes out of their way to antagonise or inflame"
= correct!
it's WHAT'S right, not WHO's right...

 

[nic a char]

""Just because Science doesn't 'know everything', doesn't mean you can fill in the blanks with whatever fairy story most appeals to you" Dara O'Brien" =

 

[Adze]

"A troll isn't someone who disagrees with you, but someone who goes out of their way to antagonise or inflame"
= correct!
it's WHAT'S right, not WHO's right...

It and much more, which also makes sense, is from here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHVVKAKWXcg

 

[Charlz9mm]

In Alaska a foreign tourist may rent firearms if he/she purchases a hunting license. Its $20 USD and requires 15 minutes to process.

And here is the plain English version on ATF's FAQ page...

Can an alien who enters the United States on a nonimmigrant alien visa rent a firearm for lawful hunting or sporting purposes while in the United States?

A nonimmigrant alien that possess a valid hunting license from a State within the United States or falls within any of the other exceptions or exemptions that allow nonimmigrant aliens to possess firearms may rent firearms to hunt or to use at a shooting range.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(5) and (9), 922(g)(5)(B) and 922(y); 27 CFR 478.99(a) and (c)(5)]

So its settled. If you come to Alaska and you want to do some bushcrafting and you fear bears, you can rent a gun. Tourists do it all of the time.

 

[EddieP]

In Alaska a foreign tourist may rent firearms if he/she purchases a hunting license. Its $20 USD and requires 15 minutes to process.

And here is the plain English version on ATF's FAQ page...

Can an alien who enters the United States on a nonimmigrant alien visa rent a firearm for lawful hunting or sporting purposes while in the United States?

A nonimmigrant alien that possess a valid hunting license from a State within the United States or falls within any of the other exceptions or exemptions that allow nonimmigrant aliens to possess firearms may rent firearms to hunt or to use at a shooting range.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(5) and (9), 922(g)(5)(B) and 922(y); 27 CFR 478.99(a) and (c)(5)]

So its settled. If you come to Alaska and you want to do some bushcrafting and you fear bears, you can rent a gun. Tourists do it all of the time.

Importantly you may hire from an FFL, but not borrow from a friend. I confirmed this with the ATF.

 

[Nomad64]

Here's Mors take on it.

[video=youtube;_3QT-Nrd9Iw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3QT-Nrd9Iw[/video]

What's the point of knowledge and experience when you can have a gun!

That's surprisingly more fatalities than I realized. However it ignores the nonfatal maulings; we've had three black bear maulings right here in Okaloosa County since 2014. Two of them in suburban neighborhoods.

Agreed about the deaths due to cattle.

The UK statistics are for fatalities caused by cattle and also excludes non-fatal incidents.

A quick look at local press reports suggests that bears are fairly low on the list of hazards for residents of for Okaloosa County;

"SHALIMAR — Gun violence continues to plague Okaloosa County in 2015.

Two people were reported wounded Monday in separate shooting incidents.
….
The shootings mark at least the 15th and 16th such incidents in Okaloosa County this year. There have been eight confirmed homicides and three violent fatalities that are still being investigated as possible homicides.
The unprecedented violence has local law enforcement agencies scrambling to keep up with an increased caseload."

http://www.nwfdailynews.com/article/20151124/news/151129660#loadComment

It is not clear whether all the 8 homicides involved guns and reading between the lines, much of this violence is probably gang related and limited to certain neighbourhoods but to put that into context, Okaloosa County has a population of 180,000 - the UK which has a population of 65 million and averages between 30 and 40 gun related homicides a year of which a fair few will also be gang related.

If I'm ever in Okaloosa County, I'll keep an eye out for bears - they might provide useful cover if I get caught in a drive by shooting.

 

[forrestdweller]

how did the people in bear countries cope with bears before (modern) firearms were invented/introduced?! I know that the bear hunters in Japan (Hokkaido) carry (or carried) a large knife with hollow handle (the condor matagi is based on this design) which could be mounted on a pole but I don't fancy trying this idea with a grizzly or polar bear.......

 

[forrestdweller]

In Alaska a foreign tourist may rent firearms if he/she purchases a hunting license. Its $20 USD and requires 15 minutes to process.

And here is the plain English version on ATF's FAQ page...

Can an alien who enters the United States on a nonimmigrant alien visa rent a firearm for lawful hunting or sporting purposes while in the United States?

A nonimmigrant alien that possess a valid hunting license from a State within the United States or falls within any of the other exceptions or exemptions that allow nonimmigrant aliens to possess firearms may rent firearms to hunt or to use at a shooting range.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(5) and (9), 922(g)(5)(B) and 922(y); 27 CFR 478.99(a) and (c)(5)]

So its settled. If you come to Alaska and you want to do some bushcrafting and you fear bears, you can rent a gun. Tourists do it all of the time.

I don't get it: on one side all that********* about terrorism and than you can hire a firearm just that easy?!