When you're on the menu. What would you do?

[Quixoticgeek]

Sparked by my [thread=135067]recent experiences[/thread] in Montserrat, I've been thinking about wild animal interactions. In the UK, we're reasonably fortunate that we don't have many dangerous animals to worry about, a few Wild boar in the Forest of Dean, and the occasional angry dog, but nothing else to worry about.

In other parts of Europe however Wolves, Lynx and Bears are all increasing in numbers.

You're laying in your bivvi bag, under a tree in a spot of woodland, and a predator (Bear or Wolf for the sake of argument) takes an interest in you and your camp. What do you do?

What would you like to carry by way of defensive tools? Pepper spray? a firearm?

Interested in your thoughts on the matter.

J

 

[British Red]

If you are talking about Europe, the odds being allowed a defensive firearm are remote at best

 

[Hibrion]

Any time I've been in such a forest I've had a 30-30 lever action and a large bowie, so I've felt quite safe. For bear an dwolf the sound if the gun going off is usually enough to scare most away. You should only ever shoot at a predator as a last resort. If you do, you better make sure you can aim and hit something vital. I think a lot of people carry too large a caliber to actually hit what they need when they need to. However, without a firearm I'd still want a good size knife. It's better than nothing and people have fought off bears with jut a buck 110 in the past. i wouldn't want to try that myself! I wouldn't put much faith in pepper spray TBH. If you are going to use it, make sure you know which way the wind is blowing.

I think with good knowledge of where you camp, and how to limit the possibility of interaction, you should be relatively safe. Try not to camp on or beside game trails, keep your food in air tight containers or in a tree away from where you sleep. Set up a cooking camp and a separate sleeping camp at least 100 yards apart.

 

[Ruud]

In Europe I've only had a tricky encounter with a wild boar. These animals have immense strength and can slash the arteries in your legs without a problem. As Hibrion said in post #3, choosing a good campsite is key. I'll never camp in thick patches of ferns or spruce to avoid an encounter with boar at night. (We stood still in the middle of a big patch of ferns, gathered up to make our presence known and look like a big mass. Eventually we hear the boar shuffle about and gather its piglets after which they left the area)

As for bears, wolves and other 'real' predators, I scan the area for escape routes and carry a long walking stick. Although I see it as being privileged to see a bear in Sweden, as they are very rarely spotted. (We do carry a gun at times)

 

[mrcharly]

A metal pan and something to bang it with.

Responses are so situational.
I'm used to domestic and wild animals, so not nervous about dealing with them. The worst situation is the surprise encounter. You are caught off guard, the animal will be startled and likely to lash out. In that situation any sizeable animal is dangerous and anything you carry will be useless.

So be aware of what is around you. Don't corner animals. Don't get between them and their young. If you come across a predator species, act like you are a predator, don't turn and run. Think how cats cautiously, menacingly prowl about when thinking of attacking. Act like that but leave the predator an obvious escape route.

If you come across a prey species, don't act menacing at all. Stay calm. Leave them an escape route. Even if it is a dangerous prey species like Wild Boar. Remember that they aren't hunting you.

Something walks into your camp? Stay calm, try to identify it. If it is prey species, don't startle it if it is facing you; prey animals like deer, boar, horses, etc, jump forward when startled. If you can, move to a flank and make quiet noises until they are definitely aware of you.

If they are human-habituated, they might well ignore you. Horses in the New Forest are used to scavenging in campsites and won't leave because you make a noise, for instance. Unless you are *very* competent at handling them, don't try to push them away. Keep out of kicking range and make a noise.

No animal likes loud clanging noises. Banging a pan will drive most of them away.

 

[santaman2000]

As others have said, campsite selection is a good start. Don't forget campsite cleanliness; most bears are more attracted by the scent of your food and/or garbage than they are by you. Keep both a fair distance from the camp, as well as any clothing or gear that still has the food or cooking smells.

The sound of gunshots enough to scare predators away? Maybe, but not necessarily; it really depends a lot on where you're going and the prevalence of deer hunting. The bears out west have learned that the sound of a gunshot means a hunter has likely killed a deer, elk, antelope, whatever. Hence they equate the sound of gunshots with a dinner bell.

Whether you carry a firearm or not is going to depend on several factors:
1) As BR pointed out, is it legal where you're going? (and passing though to get there?)
2) Can you practice with it often enough to be comfortable with it? It's not a talisman that will ward off critters just by virtue of having it.
3) Can you practically carry it in an accessible manner?

Pepper spray? Not my best choice (and still subject to some of the above restrictions) but if you must, be sure to get stuff that's made specifically for predators; the bear spray is a bit more potent than the human type.

 

[dwardo]

Try pleading with it in a really high pitched voice?

Sorry couldn't resist.

I would like a a fare sized knife for peace of mind. Yes i know there its more likely to be used as a tooth pick to remove the remains of my cartilage from its teeth but it would make me feel better. After that its be big and bold n hope for the best.

 

[Hibrion]

The sound of gunshots enough to scare predators away? Maybe, but not necessarily; it really depends a lot on where you're going and the prevalence of deer hunting. The bears out west have learned that the sound of a gunshot means a hunter has likely killed a deer, elk, antelope, whatever. Hence they equate the sound of gunshots with a dinner bell.

Good point. I've heard this is true in the states, but never heard it said for Europe. I don't think 'hey bear' would be quite good enough if you were gralloching a deer!

 

[Wayne]

Learn tracking skills so you know where the big predators etc are likely to be and avoid. Ensure really good camp hygiene at all times. I cook as far away from my sleeping area as possible. Learn as much as you can about animal behaviour as possible so you can react appropriately. I have always worked on the principal of don't annoy the locals. It has kept me safe in most of the worlds hot spots. In Brown bear country I carry bear spray but thats more to placate the ranger than to prevent one becoming a tasty snack.

 

[GGTBod]

I sharpened a big stick and kept it next to my bed, i found it very funny that i had done this the next morning though

 

[Goatboy]

I sharpened a big stick and kept it next to my bed, i found it very funny that i had done this the next morning though

Handy if you had a bag of mahoosive marshmallows to roast on the fire though.
We were all glad that our predictions/jokes about you becoming bear bait were unfounded.
Sometimes a big stick does give you a little mental boost though, even though in reality it wold likely just be a toothpick for a big predator.

Sent via smoke-signal from a woodland in Scotland.

 

[GGTBod]

My actual thoughts on usage of the big stick as i lay in my bed dropping off to sleep was if the bear climbed into the lean-to and pounced to eat me i would raise the stick just in time for the bear to land on it with it's weight either seriously injuring it or giving it an annoying pain whilst it proceeded to eat me, there were no thoughts of me standing in my boxer shorts by the pale moonlight fighting off the bear with my pointy stick i might have the beard, forehead and the body hair of a cave-man but that is about as close as the similarity gets

 

[David LaFerney]

One of these..

120 decibels - That's right between "loud Rock Concert" and "Actual Physical Pain" - about $10 U.S. - Great for practical jokes too.

 

[GGTBod]

I kept one next to my pointy stick the first night, after that it sat in the bottom of my bag

 

[hog]

Leave a huge pile of poo (and there will be lots of it ) and back away slowly, dont make eye contact and hope for the best.

 

[homesicksteve]

The Wolves are coming :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-34520909

 

[forrestdweller]

in my personal experience homo sapiens are the most dangerous predators- and the vast majority of my encounters with them happened in (central) europe.... . campsite selection and blending in with your surroundings (="stealth camping) helps a lot to minimize the risk. + i kept my slingshot, walking stick and knifes ready... .

i had only one animal encounter in europe when a wild pig family decided to forage a few metres beside me (waking me up)-- clapping my hands together scared them off.
in OZ i had once a python sliding into my bed- i just asked "monthy"" nicely to leave which worked; possums are a different matter ( :AR15firin)....

 

[rik_uk3]

"A Park Ranger tells everyone to wear bells around their neck and carry pepper spray to ward off a bear attack. The bells alert the bears to your presence and the spray is a last ditch, ten feet, "hail Mary", when all else fails. He tells the hikers that there are two kinds of bears in the area: Grizzlies and Black bears. He then tells them that they need to recognize the bear's scat so they can tell the two species apart. He sez that black bears are much less likely to attack, so when they see black bear scat, they may continue. But if they encounter grizzly scat, they should give the area a wide berth.

A tourist asks how to tell the difference. The ranger replies," Easy, black bears are grazers, more than fish eaters. The black bear scat is usually full of blackberry seeds, hackberrys and acorns and other plant life and it smells like almonds. Grizzly scat is larger and it is full of bells and smells like pepper spray...."

Made me chuckle anyway and the old ones are the best

I do have what is really an irrational fear of bulls, when I was a wee boy I saw a farmer get a bull into a horse box, turns out the bull did not like it and came out of it along with the back door of the trailer...frightened the crap out of me and since them I'll not get near a bull.

In Europe I only felt real fear when in France back in @1972. A mate and I were hitching through France and got dropped off on the outskirts of a village...no people to be seen. but in need of food and vin we walked down the main road and from nowhere a pack of howling dogs came in front of us. It was like a scene from an old horror film, howling and barking (the dogs not us). Switch to scene two of the horror movie a rather disheveled old lady turned up and shouted and dogs shut up and joined her.

 

[John Fenna]

If I am on the menu?
I would think bitter thoughts to spoil their meal!
If all my precautions came to nothing then I would have no choice...
In Luxembourg I swiftly climbed a tree to get out of the way of Mama Wild Boar (I had managed to get between her and her baby Boars) and in France a Wild Boar and I came face to face on a track - the Boar saw me - and turned tail and ran. I have that kind of effect first thing in the morning!
Even on foot Safaris in South Africa the closest I came to having to avoid big bad beasties that might eat or stomp me (Lion, Leopard, Buffalo, Elephant, baboon, Hippo, Croc etc) involved just keeping my distance and backing off if they looked narked.
It worked, and at no time did it spoil my camp routine
We even had Leopard come through our camp while we slept - we found the tracks in the morning!

 

[Robson Valley]

Given the great diversity of big game around my place, gun shots mean gut piles.
Capsicain Bear Spray has habituated bears to associate the smell with food.
Hanging your food in a tree pack away from your camp is no guarantee, either.

Seems to be some safety in numbers (don't camp alone.)
Get used to the idea of many nationalities camping around you in our western region National Parks
like Jasper, Yoho, Glacier and Banff. Many, many pairs of eyes to spot incoming wildlife.

Anything is accurate at handshaking distance. s/s12 coach gun with SSG is my choice.