If you look at earlier comments, I'm happy to carry a gun.
I'd not try it as I don't want to be a Darwinian statistic.
When you're on the menu. What would you do?
- Thread starter Quixoticgeek
- Start date
If you look at earlier comments, I'm happy to carry a gun.
I'd not try it as I don't want to be a Darwinian statistic.
Yeah, no issue buddy. Wasn't really directed at anyone.
Mountain rescue are kept pretty busy here with folks who think a fleece and a selfie stick is all out need to "test yourself" outdoors.
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Terrorism does not seem to be an issue in rural Alaska. Gun laws in the US are VERY complicated. What you are allowed to do in Tennessee will get you 16yrs in the pen in New York. In New Hampshire you may open carry an AK47, if you then walk across the border into Massachusetts you will be SWAT teamed and do hard time if you survived the arrest. Just because you may rent a gun does not mean you can easily walk down Madison Ave. like Dirty Harry. State Laws are in addition to Federal Laws and can be quite strict. In rural states many people have concealed gun permits. Mis-behaving with a firearm could get one shot by a citizen long before the police arrive (which can take hours). Its not like it is presented on TV.
I must make some points here:
1) As one who has lived in bear country and has had friends who were mauled and a sister who has to occasionally fire a warning shot to scare the grizzlys out of her garden, no matter how civilized you are you will want a gun in those conditions.
2) Americans and our stupid movies, our fake media, political diarrhea, and overly zealous gun proponents have poorly portrayed the gun culture in the framework of reality. There is idealism and there is reality. I respect idealism. I truly do. I understand the aversion that British and Europeans have with the apparent reckless nature of gun ownership in the US. The reality is that Americans have been stockpiling guns for decades. There are millions of guns that will never be traced. If the laws were changed their would be bloodshed. There would be no shortage of guns. The human cost would be much higher than the issues that exist now. The bickering over it in our government is only theater. Everyone knows that this will not change. We either deal with reality or suffer a worse fate. This is a big country. Crime is lower in areas that have less gun laws. Most people are careful and most places having licensing to carry concealed. I live in an area in which 25% of adults carry a pistol. I have never seen a shooting in 20 years. I am not a mouth breathing "gun nut". I understand that in other cultures and situations I may be more in line with Europe and Britain. When living in Alaska, I owned a gun. Different actions for different realities. Thank you, please forgive my rant.
1) As one who has lived in bear country and has had friends who were mauled and a sister who has to occasionally fire a warning shot to scare the grizzlys out of her garden, no matter how civilized you are you will want a gun in those conditions.
2) Americans and our stupid movies, our fake media, political diarrhea, and overly zealous gun proponents have poorly portrayed the gun culture in the framework of reality. There is idealism and there is reality. I respect idealism. I truly do. I understand the aversion that British and Europeans have with the apparent reckless nature of gun ownership in the US. The reality is that Americans have been stockpiling guns for decades. There are millions of guns that will never be traced. If the laws were changed their would be bloodshed. There would be no shortage of guns. The human cost would be much higher than the issues that exist now. The bickering over it in our government is only theater. Everyone knows that this will not change. We either deal with reality or suffer a worse fate. This is a big country. Crime is lower in areas that have less gun laws. Most people are careful and most places having licensing to carry concealed. I live in an area in which 25% of adults carry a pistol. I have never seen a shooting in 20 years. I am not a mouth breathing "gun nut". I understand that in other cultures and situations I may be more in line with Europe and Britain. When living in Alaska, I owned a gun. Different actions for different realities. Thank you, please forgive my rant.
I have been living in bear country since 1975. Close enough that neighbors have seen them sitting on my front doorstep in the night.
So far, never a broken fence but a couple of trashed garbage cans.
As a rule, I don't leave the village without a 12ga and SSG. I'll add a lot of #7.5 trap loads in our bird season.
I don't carry BearBangers or bells.
Once the broadleaf bushes and trees leaf out, visibility off a logging road can be as little as 5 feet.
I leave a travel itinerary with someone and do not stray from it.
Most importantly, I try to find someone to come along for the ride.
So far, never a broken fence but a couple of trashed garbage cans.
As a rule, I don't leave the village without a 12ga and SSG. I'll add a lot of #7.5 trap loads in our bird season.
I don't carry BearBangers or bells.
Once the broadleaf bushes and trees leaf out, visibility off a logging road can be as little as 5 feet.
I leave a travel itinerary with someone and do not stray from it.
Most importantly, I try to find someone to come along for the ride.
Interesting points. I've only had to consider defense above the tree line where viewing distance is plentiful. If I ever end up in woodland I'll not even considder a LTL load.
I never knew there were so many folk with great experience of bears.
Must be a cultural thing too. We live all the time alongside bears. Big brown and black ones.
I've had only a few incidents with bears, all caused by my carelessness and all of them ended up peacefully without having to fire a gun or kill bear.
Sometime we hunt one for the fur and fat. Now its rifle only but in the past I've also used dead fall for black bears. In the old times we hunted bears with dogs and used spears which were kept in the hand and not thrown like i've seen in old movies. (not bow and arrow). Grandfather said it was difficult and dangerous work but they couldn't always get ammunition for guns and guns often times didn't work.
Biggest problem is habituation, mainly for black bears. They learn fast that humans in towns provide food. Friendly bear is dangeerous as it is not frightened of humans, doesn't learn that humans are frightened of bears. Unfortunately for bear only humans have guns.
Like many of our people I've lived, hunted and travelled across the northern forests all my 65 years. I don't know any of our folk who've gone out and carried a rifle - and certainly never a hand gun, in case they get attacked by bear (or any other animal). Knowing how not to get into trouble in the first place is how we deal with them. This is what and how our children are taught from a young age, to deal with animals - understanding!! You'd be teased if you did take a gun.
Maybe folk in cattle farming country take rifle because cattle have attacked people I hear?
Good luck Enhuyaha!
Must be a cultural thing too. We live all the time alongside bears. Big brown and black ones.
I've had only a few incidents with bears, all caused by my carelessness and all of them ended up peacefully without having to fire a gun or kill bear.
Sometime we hunt one for the fur and fat. Now its rifle only but in the past I've also used dead fall for black bears. In the old times we hunted bears with dogs and used spears which were kept in the hand and not thrown like i've seen in old movies. (not bow and arrow). Grandfather said it was difficult and dangerous work but they couldn't always get ammunition for guns and guns often times didn't work.
Biggest problem is habituation, mainly for black bears. They learn fast that humans in towns provide food. Friendly bear is dangeerous as it is not frightened of humans, doesn't learn that humans are frightened of bears. Unfortunately for bear only humans have guns.
Like many of our people I've lived, hunted and travelled across the northern forests all my 65 years. I don't know any of our folk who've gone out and carried a rifle - and certainly never a hand gun, in case they get attacked by bear (or any other animal). Knowing how not to get into trouble in the first place is how we deal with them. This is what and how our children are taught from a young age, to deal with animals - understanding!! You'd be teased if you did take a gun.
Maybe folk in cattle farming country take rifle because cattle have attacked people I hear?
Good luck Enhuyaha!
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Problem is Joe, Walmart's don't sell common sense and understanding, they do however sell guns and ammo.
D.B.
D.B.
This isn't a good time of year. The bears are all out early and there's very little to eat. Plus, sows with cubs, both the blacks and grizz.
Won't surprise me at all if there's sightings in the village soon.
Years back, some young grizz were stalking little kids at the country road school bus stops. Some country dads regulated those.
Was a cougar killed a couple of village deer winter before last. It's pitch dark in the mornings in winter so most people drove their little kids to school.
We've got wolf packs, coyotes, lynx and bobcats but I never see them close to town.
Won't surprise me at all if there's sightings in the village soon.
Years back, some young grizz were stalking little kids at the country road school bus stops. Some country dads regulated those.
Was a cougar killed a couple of village deer winter before last. It's pitch dark in the mornings in winter so most people drove their little kids to school.
We've got wolf packs, coyotes, lynx and bobcats but I never see them close to town.
RV I don't think anyone would have a problem with people protecting kids and livestock from wild or out of control animals when they are entering properties and towns etc. I think what annoys a lot of people (especially outside of the states) is when people don't offer the wild animals the same respect and not only go into their territory but do so tooled up to the eyeballs and then stick videos up on places like you tube boasting about it.
D.B.
D.B.
Our Ruffed grouse are quite similar to your Red grouse but ours are birds of the forest. Was a place we call the "Pine Flats" which was quite productive. Three of us were out chasing birds, mid October, when we got the chance for 10 minutes, by the clock, to watch a Lynx pair supervise the play of their 3 kittens. I already had a pretty good idea of the location of the den in a nearby cliff-side. Must be 6-8(?) years ago and I have not hunted there since then. I don't even slow down. I suppose that I'm competing with the cats just about anywhere but that episode, seeing their visible presence, put me right off ever hunting there again.
Normally, I field dress the birds and toss the entrails into the underbrush. . . . gone in 20 minutes.
Since lead shot is known to be toxic, I switched to #6 steel.
I was told once that a Bobcat and I were stalking the same covey of grouse from opposite directions!
DB: The animals in the National Parks, like Banff and Jasper, are much more habituated to people. Maybe that's where many of the YouTubers are claiming triumph?
Still, those Parks have absolutely closed areas for wildlife protection. Read just yesterday of several more idiots who ignored the signs.
They each were fined $1,500.00 for their little stroll in the woods.
Normally, I field dress the birds and toss the entrails into the underbrush. . . . gone in 20 minutes.
Since lead shot is known to be toxic, I switched to #6 steel.
I was told once that a Bobcat and I were stalking the same covey of grouse from opposite directions!
DB: The animals in the National Parks, like Banff and Jasper, are much more habituated to people. Maybe that's where many of the YouTubers are claiming triumph?
Still, those Parks have absolutely closed areas for wildlife protection. Read just yesterday of several more idiots who ignored the signs.
They each were fined $1,500.00 for their little stroll in the woods.
well, to my knowledge it hasn't happened yet.....
but this guy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Schwab came as a tourist,too.....
(sorry if I wentagain....)
Interesting article. Also self contradictory: First it states that the shooter used a "high power rifle" then later it claims it was a Ruger Mini 14. Which was it?
As they say, "if you are a hammer, every problem looks like a nail" - if you are a gun enthusiast, then I guess every situation calls for a gun - preferably a big one.
The OP's question was not "What type of gun should I take when hunting bear" but what sort of "defensive tools" would be appropriate to guard against the risk of dangerous animals while wild camping in Europe........
.....Back to the OP's question - the risks are incredibly small but since bears (regardless of the statistical evidence to the contrary) are perceived as the most dangerous things in the woods here is some feedback from someone who lives in European "bear country". Last year I spent some time listening to a presentation by a Rumanian lady keen to introduce the Brits to her fine range of rustic cuisine which included her delicious bear sausages. When asked about the dangers of living in "bear country", she replied that sometimes the younger kids get a bit frightened when out foraging if they find a bear on the opposite side of the bush they are collecting from but they weren't a serious danger.
IME badly behaved dogs are the biggest nuisance/threat in the UK - I've been bitten (mauled?) at least 4 times over the last few years (enough to draw blood/tear clothes but nothing serious) and always feel more comfortable with a walking pole when out and about though I do like the look of Mors' bear bat.
Safe travels and watch out for those cows.
She asked about large predatory animals in general ("when you're on the menu") and European bears, wolves, and lynxes specifically. For the record, I'm not a "gun enthusiast (whatever that is) I'm a hunter, a fisherman, an ex logger, a camper, an ex trapper, an ex cowboy/farmer/rancher, a retired G.I and retired cop (in short, I'm just a country boy)
Re the lynxes, I have absolutely no knowledge of European lynxes and very little of lynxes in general but I'd imagine their smaller size precludes them stalking humans (at least no adult humans) although straying slightly off topic, they are very likely detrimental to livestock and pets. Likewise with wolves. I have no firsthand knowledge of European bears either, but most on the thread and other publications tend to be of the opinion they're less aggressive than N.A. grizzlies.
By the way, I agree with you regarding dogs; at least near civilization where they're common. My cousin had to shoot two of them that had dug under her fence and were killing her puppy. When the sheriff's deputy finally arrived an hour later the dogs' owner (my cousin's neighbor down the road) claimed no knowledge of them at all, and thus no responsibility.
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I remember when that happened, it was tragic. You're absolutely right about the need to be familiar with any and all emergency or backup kit. It's not some talisman that will ward off the emergencies themselves, though many people seem to view it that way.
Any cat smaller than a cougar is not a problem. Most bear make a calculation about effort vs risk.
We have 3 bigger clashes = a sow bear with cubs. A buried kill. A cow moose with calves.
Local bison are ranched with 10' fences and power-pole posts. Don't ever, ever screw with them.
They just want to get up close to meet you and greet you and stomp you and gore the bejeezlies out of you.
We have 3 bigger clashes = a sow bear with cubs. A buried kill. A cow moose with calves.
Local bison are ranched with 10' fences and power-pole posts. Don't ever, ever screw with them.
They just want to get up close to meet you and greet you and stomp you and gore the bejeezlies out of you.
The closest I've been to a grizzly was when shooting one:
K
Shot but not killed I suspect.
Shot would assume you were within 50m of the grizzly to have connected and in any event if you felt you needed to pull a large calibre, low velocity pistol on a bear I hope you felt an imminent threat.
Love to know the story Klench.
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