Always fancied a full length waxed riding/stockmans coat. Not sure why ive not gotten one before. Possibly as ive wanted dark brown as opposed to the green i seem to see them in lol
Wax cotton canvas coats
- Thread starter redneck
- Start date
When I was an Outdoor Skills Instructor, back in the day, unless we wore Ventile (the fully breathable weatherproof) the only "Waterproofs" were PU or Neoprene proofed nylon - which had the breathability of a balloon!
Compared to those fabric Waxed Cotton was highly breathable (OK - that is a gross exaggeration) - but Waxed Cotton did not have "The Look" and was thought of as for Farmers and Poachers only
Instructors often went for Henri LLoyd 8oz Neoprene Cags (available in Green Blue or Red!) with 4oz Neoprene Overtrousers (more flexible...) but you got just as wet in this kit, from condensation, as you would standing naked in the rain ... but you were warm and wet.
I had one of the first Gore-Tex jackets to be sold in Britain - but it was rubbish! It did as much to keep me dry as a Kleenex tissue would and cost about the same as Ventile.
Waxed Cotton out performs most of what we had as choice in those days - folk these days are spoilt roton with their MVT choices!
BUT - Waxed Cotton still has a great look for the outdoors and will outlast most things, getting more and more disreputable (or "homely") while still performing (unlike so many MVT fabrics) in the weather. That is why it is still popular with Farmers and Poachers .... and other assorted outdoorsmen!
The Smock I am planning will be for general wet weather wear - I can no longer do the mountain or long distance stuff - and I have just ordered my British Millerain Chera 8 375gms Waxed Cotton ... so I hope to get sewing soon!
I remember those days, and used to have a craghoppers jacket which eventually started to delaminate where it got creased most often. I remember getting a Barbour then, a move up in the world, although I have to say it was not long before it started looking a bit dog eared, with frayed cuffs, and repairs as they do. It went through a replacement zip because the brass one failed. In the end I grew out of it, in the sense that it got rather small for me. I went through a couple of cheapie stockmans coats after that, the brass zips failed on two of them as well, but they were cheaper to replace than to have rewaxed and repaired. I currently still have stockmans coat which is not worn so often these days, it has the advantage of fastening with press studs rather than a zip. All right for standing about in the pouring rain, but not very comfortable to wear while carrying a rucksack.
I had my Barbour Durham out with me today so that I could stitch a few rips and tears up, pics here. On my return Mrs. Sandbender asked if that was 'my old coat', yes it is and then I wondered how old?
I worked it out, twenty eight years!
It wasn't my first Barbour, however it may well be my last.
I worked it out, twenty eight years!
It wasn't my first Barbour, however it may well be my last.
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A frozen New Year's day....Himself said, "Stand still and I might actually manage take a photo of you!", but a frozen something or other at my feet caught my eyes so instead I look like the hunchback of Notre Dame
Anyway, ancient wool lined wax jacket Note both zip and studs
M
so instead I look like the hunchback of Notre Dame Anyway, ancient wool lined wax jacket
Note both zip and studs
M
When I was an Outdoor Skills Instructor, back in the day, unless we wore Ventile (the fully breathable weatherproof) the only "Waterproofs" were PU or Neoprene proofed nylon - which had the breathability of a balloon!
Compared to those fabric Waxed Cotton was highly breathable (OK - that is a gross exaggeration) - but Waxed Cotton did not have "The Look" and was thought of as for Farmers and Poachers only
Instructors often went for Henri LLoyd 8oz Neoprene Cags (available in Green Blue or Red!) with 4oz Neoprene Overtrousers (more flexible...) but you got just as wet in this kit, from condensation, as you would standing naked in the rain ... but you were warm and wet.
I had one of the first Gore-Tex jackets to be sold in Britain - but it was rubbish! It did as much to keep me dry as a Kleenex tissue would and cost about the same as Ventile.
Waxed Cotton out performs most of what we had as choice in those days - folk these days are spoilt roton with their MVT choices!
BUT - Waxed Cotton still has a great look for the outdoors and will outlast most things, getting more and more disreputable (or "homely") while still performing (unlike so many MVT fabrics) in the weather. That is why it is still popular with Farmers and Poachers .... and other assorted outdoorsmen!
The Smock I am planning will be for general wet weather wear - I can no longer do the mountain or long distance stuff - and I have just ordered my British Millerain Chera 8 375gms Waxed Cotton ... so I hope to get sewing soon!
I remember those times as well John, and the miles of wet walks.... I ended up just wearing shorts if it rained, and ballanced rain with sweat... I had a Berghus Lightning in Gortex in green.. one of the first in Gortex.... I am in agreement with you, I like the Wax Cotton, works well..OK may not be that breathable.. or as breathable, but hey its bomb proof , and can be reproofed and easily repaired...
And of course has soul... like most of the traditional kit, and it becomes an old friend.....OK traditional Material is heavy and Bulky... but it works... for me give me wool and cotton... I went down the route of modern Materials.. now I swinging back to the old stuff.. to be truthful... I never did get away from it.
Durability/toughness
I will also be making some groundsheets/bedrolls out of the fabric ... and I think I will go with an unlined jacket with midlayers of wool giving the warmth but being more versatile.
I had the Mistral in 2 tone blue - very fashionable - and it never worked and when it was pinched off me during a Lands End to JoG attempt I reverted to neoprene. However, I wrote a review for a Backpackers newspaper and Berghaus sent me a replacement... which did not work - so they sent me a replacement for that one...which did not work - so they sent me a Lightning (green) ...which I sold still in its bag to another instructor at the centre I was then working at...who complained that it did not work and sent it back to Berghaus.
How Goretex ever became a Standard Wear item is beyond me!
I will say that Modern Goretex is a bit better... but not as good for my needs as Ventile or Waxed Cotton!
Durability/toughness
I will also be making some groundsheets/bedrolls out of the fabric ... and I think I will go with an unlined jacket with midlayers of wool giving the warmth but being more versatile.
Just watch out for the wax bleeding over /rubbing over on the wool. It happened to me when I bought a end bolt of non-labeled wax cotton and made a trial garment. Still have 15 meters left of that wax cotton, but it's back in Sweden..
Just watch out for the wax bleeding over /rubbing over on the wool. It happened to me when I bought a end bolt of non-labeled wax cotton and made a trial garment. Still have 15 meters left of that wax cotton, but it's back in Sweden..
I am aware this could be an issue - I will make my final choice between lined and unlined after testing the fabric
Like you I'd dug mine out and went stravaiging in it yesterday. Hadn't had it on in an age and it was like going walking with an old friend. And true to form of my last post on the thread; the pockets were full of buried treasure.I had my Barbour Durham out with me today so that I could stitch a few rips and tears up, pics here. On my return Mrs. Sandbender asked if that was 'my old coat', yes it is and then I wondered how old?
I worked it out, twenty eight years!
It wasn't my first Barbour, however it may well be my last.
Remember Barbour running an add about 15-20 years ago, a large picture of an old workbench laden with items that they'd taken out of pockets over the years when rewaxing and had collected. Remember thinking at the time that it would've been nicer to return them to customers rather than keep them. There were some pricey and treasured items amongst them. (May have been fake - but the thought of it bothered me).
I dug mine out too.....three oak galls, a mini SAK, a bit of string I've been footering with....not quite sure what I used for it, inner bark from something......three one pound coins a cotton hankie, four kirby grips, poly piece bag, some sweet gale buds and what looks to have been a sprig of thyme.
Question is, could I make dinner or start a fire with it ?
I'd manage the fire
M
a cotton hankie, four kirby grips, poly piece bag, some sweet gale buds and what looks to have been a sprig of thyme.Question is, could I make dinner or start a fire with it ?
I'd manage the fire
M
I am aware this could be an issue - I will make my final choice between lined and unlined after testing the fabric
It's always a compromise between sturdyness and vapour (non)-transport me thinks. I wouldn't go for the same fabric in a bed roll as in a jacket. But from an economy view is always good to consolidate. And I know you know your way around cloth and you have a good idea on what you will use the jacket for. A sturdy cloth has more of the country look to it and will also hold up better. I gave lining some thought, a cupro or viscose overcoat lining might be a good idea (more vapour transport than the generic cotton tartan), but mesh still has the upper hand in my book. I would love to see your process from pattern cutting to finished product if you have the time and energy to document it. I think a lot of people would be interested. I used silesia, cotton holland and collar canvas for reinforcements (pocket mouths, zipper flap, collar etc) in my trial coat, tried fusibles but the thermo press I had in my home work room (which was a domestic elna press, which wasn't any good to begin with) didn't like the waxy and napped wrong side of the wax cotton I tried. Might try fusibles with the fusing press I have at work now though, if I were to take dabble with it again (just need to finish x pairs of trousers, a couple of suits, overcoats, sport jackets etc first...). I really like the look of the barbour international or the belstaff equivalent, but I would strip down the details, make it a tad more fitted, better cut sleeves and armscye and use mesh instead of cotton tartan...
I am planning to use a 1960s SAS smock pattern that I developed a while back and have already made up in a Cotton that is very tight woven... almost a Ventile but not quite
So, I am afraid I will not be doing any pattern development on this one
So, I am afraid I will not be doing any pattern development on this one
big_swede, I wouldn't make a wax jacket too fitted. The looseness allows the evaporation of sweat and moisture. It's like the Inuit do with their heavy skin parkas. Loosen the neck and hem and movement shifts the air underneath.
It's not 'breathable' the way that modern membrane fabrics are, but it works very well indeed to keep the jacket warm, supple and dry underneath.
Not for heavy, hard, work, but for a cold, dreich day and out for a walk, or hanging around in, it's the most comfortable jacket I own.
I used wool flannel for all of the linings, but the next one I make I'll use good quality fulled pure wool tartan cloth. The flannel softens and drapes a bit over time.....though in twenty years I suppose we all do so no shame to it.
I found that for me it's worth while making my sleeves a couple of inches too long so that in normal use they fold back into a cuff, but when it's pouring down, or really cold and windy, I can fold them down to cover more of my hands. Similar idea with a hood is my next one's intention.
Pockets need care. If water gets in, and your stitching and waxing is good, it'll stay in, so the flaps need to be angled properly, and be large enough, to cover effectively.
I simply used the selvedge strips (peeled off a few rows of the warp threads to feather the other edge) for reinforcement points. These are simply held in place by the stitching and the wax which when heated and cooled sticks the layers together better than any of the interfacings manage.
I used studs on my jacket flaps, but big buttons are very good; the only issue with buttons is that button holes take a tremendous amount of strain, especially when folks are cold and wet and chugging the buttons open in a hurry.
Fewer holes in the fabric the better. I used a stiletto to make the hole for the studs, so no cut fibres, just forced apart ones.
If your pattern creates no seams across the shoulders, it's a very good thing; and if you layer the wax fabric over the shoulders, as is often done with single layer ventile, then it does help keep out any seepage where straps rub.
atb,
M
It's not 'breathable' the way that modern membrane fabrics are, but it works very well indeed to keep the jacket warm, supple and dry underneath.
Not for heavy, hard, work, but for a cold, dreich day and out for a walk, or hanging around in, it's the most comfortable jacket I own.
I used wool flannel for all of the linings, but the next one I make I'll use good quality fulled pure wool tartan cloth. The flannel softens and drapes a bit over time.....though in twenty years I suppose we all do
so no shame to it.I found that for me it's worth while making my sleeves a couple of inches too long so that in normal use they fold back into a cuff, but when it's pouring down, or really cold and windy, I can fold them down to cover more of my hands. Similar idea with a hood is my next one's intention.
Pockets need care. If water gets in, and your stitching and waxing is good, it'll stay in, so the flaps need to be angled properly, and be large enough, to cover effectively.
I simply used the selvedge strips (peeled off a few rows of the warp threads to feather the other edge) for reinforcement points. These are simply held in place by the stitching and the wax which when heated and cooled sticks the layers together better than any of the interfacings manage.
I used studs on my jacket flaps, but big buttons are very good; the only issue with buttons is that button holes take a tremendous amount of strain, especially when folks are cold and wet and chugging the buttons open in a hurry.
Fewer holes in the fabric the better. I used a stiletto to make the hole for the studs, so no cut fibres, just forced apart ones.
If your pattern creates no seams across the shoulders, it's a very good thing; and if you layer the wax fabric over the shoulders, as is often done with single layer ventile, then it does help keep out any seepage where straps rub.
atb,
M
Barbour recently ran a contest to see what people keep in their Barbour pockets...was very interesting to see what different thing people carry
In my case, what seemed like half a forest fell on the kitchen floor, mostly stuff that I'd obviously been collecting for tinder.
Was it this picture?
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A frozen New Year's day....Himself said, "Stand still and I might actually manage take a photo of you!", but a frozen something or other at my feet caught my eyes
Anyway, ancient wool lined wax jacket
M
Wax in use, as god intended!!
big_swede, I wouldn't make a wax jacket too fitted. The looseness allows the evaporation of sweat and moisture. It's like the Inuit do with their heavy skin parkas. Loosen the neck and hem and movement shifts the air underneath.
It's not 'breathable' the way that modern membrane fabrics are, but it works very well indeed to keep the jacket warm, supple and dry underneath.
Not for heavy, hard, work, but for a cold, dreich day and out for a walk, or hanging around in, it's the most comfortable jacket I own.
I used wool flannel for all of the linings, but the next one I make I'll use good quality fulled pure wool tartan cloth. The flannel softens and drapes a bit over time.....though in twenty years I suppose we all do
I found that for me it's worth while making my sleeves a couple of inches too long so that in normal use they fold back into a cuff, but when it's pouring down, or really cold and windy, I can fold them down to cover more of my hands. Similar idea with a hood is my next one's intention.
Pockets need care. If water gets in, and your stitching and waxing is good, it'll stay in, so the flaps need to be angled properly, and be large enough, to cover effectively.
I simply used the selvedge strips (peeled off a few rows of the warp threads to feather the other edge) for reinforcement points. These are simply held in place by the stitching and the wax which when heated and cooled sticks the layers together better than any of the interfacings manage.
I used studs on my jacket flaps, but big buttons are very good; the only issue with buttons is that button holes take a tremendous amount of strain, especially when folks are cold and wet and chugging the buttons open in a hurry.
Fewer holes in the fabric the better. I used a stiletto to make the hole for the studs, so no cut fibres, just forced apart ones.
If your pattern creates no seams across the shoulders, it's a very good thing; and if you layer the wax fabric over the shoulders, as is often done with single layer ventile, then it does help keep out any seepage where straps rub.
atb,
M
Well, actually vapour transport increases with closer distances. But anyway, a tad more fitted allows for better range of movement. A lot of people will probably think this is the opposite, but trust me on this one, a correctly cut garment can be quite fitted without restricting movement, which is imperative in such a sturdy cloth as wax cotton.
I will not use wool as lingin when I get time to make one up, as I want to try it out as a shell garment.
Regarding pockets, I think eyelets in the bottom will do the trick. And buttonholes, well we have a recce buttonholer at work... And I do spend quite a lot of time at work doing buttonholes by hand so no worries. But you are indeed correct about the stress these receive. You would most likely need to reinforce the area of the buttonholes as well. And always reinforce the areas where you are going to place bartacks.
It's not the quite the same thing. It's ventilation not vapour transfer as in the modern goretex's etc.. It's colder air from the hem rising up as the warmer and damper air escapes at the neck. The body heat and movement drives it. Like opening the bathroom window to let the steamy air out after a bath or shower. Unlike the fabrics that do the close fitting vapour transfer the wax doesn't get overwhelmed in muggy weather, so long as the person inside is warmer than the air around. It doesn't need to escape through the fabric. That roomy ventilation is very comfortable.
I agree about a well cut garment, but this is an over jacket. It's not girding anyway, and it allows layering options appropriate to season.
Up to yourself whether you make it a shell or a jacket. My woolen liner means my jacket is not only draught proof but comfortably warm and it never feels wet inside because of the wool.
I don't usually wear much under mine unless it's perishing cold (as in the photo, when I'm layered up in a set of merino thermals and a merino top with a silk and wool scarf.
Like single layer ventile, single layer wax I find chilly to wear. Each to their own.
I handmake buttonholes on everything from silk to tartan; I agree they're all the better for a little discreet reinforcing. It's hard to do that on the wax unless you plate on another layer of the cotton and stitch it down or make a proper bound buttonhole. For handstitched/tailored buttonhole stitched, I find a gimp thread around the slit is a very trim way of keeping it taut.
The cotton is a very simple tabby weave, it unravels and it tears along the grain if not carefully dealt with.
I have some ripstop cotton waxed fabric .....came as a remnant from a factory that made uniforms and clothing for specialist units. It's superb, but I've never seen it again anywhere and there was no manufacturers mark on the cloth or the bolt. If you can find that, I'm sure there'd be interest
Eyelets at the bottom of the pockets rust
and wee bits of stuff get stuck in them. They also (brass ones too) rub away at the inside of the pocket and hole the lining.
Sorry to sound so negative; it's genuinely not intentional, just that I've been asked so often to repair wax jackets that have become pretty knackered but are still someone's "the Jacket" that I've seen most of the problems with the stuff.
cheers,
M
I agree about a well cut garment, but this is an over jacket. It's not girding anyway, and it allows layering options appropriate to season.
Up to yourself whether you make it a shell or a jacket. My woolen liner means my jacket is not only draught proof but comfortably warm and it never feels wet inside because of the wool.
I don't usually wear much under mine unless it's perishing cold (as in the photo, when I'm layered up in a set of merino thermals and a merino top with a silk and wool scarf.
Like single layer ventile, single layer wax I find chilly to wear. Each to their own.
I handmake buttonholes on everything from silk to tartan; I agree they're all the better for a little discreet reinforcing. It's hard to do that on the wax unless you plate on another layer of the cotton and stitch it down or make a proper bound buttonhole. For handstitched/tailored buttonhole stitched, I find a gimp thread around the slit is a very trim way of keeping it taut.
The cotton is a very simple tabby weave, it unravels and it tears along the grain if not carefully dealt with.
I have some ripstop cotton waxed fabric .....came as a remnant from a factory that made uniforms and clothing for specialist units. It's superb, but I've never seen it again anywhere and there was no manufacturers mark on the cloth or the bolt. If you can find that, I'm sure there'd be interest
Eyelets at the bottom of the pockets rust
and wee bits of stuff get stuck in them. They also (brass ones too) rub away at the inside of the pocket and hole the lining.Sorry to sound so negative; it's genuinely not intentional, just that I've been asked so often to repair wax jackets that have become pretty knackered but are still someone's "the Jacket" that I've seen most of the problems with the stuff.
cheers,
M
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