"Cotton Kills"

[Emdiesse]

Hi All,

Just saw the BCUK group on facebook share an article as to why 'Cotton Kills' and I have heard about this before, but for the most part I don't think I have ever been truly remote (and if I have been I have probably worn a mix of all sorts from wool socks to modern waterproof/breathable fabrics and in amongst that I'm sure there has been some cotton!).

Who doesn't wear 'some' cotton or poly/cotton mix when out and about!? What would you wear?

I know there are many natural fibre fanatics around these parts and I must admit I'm keen on the natural fibres as well, although I'd put myself more in the 'transition stage' (Not shaken the manmade fibre jacket for a nice 'cotton' ventile one yet), but what do you wear when your not wearing wool!?

Obviously wools is a big thing around here!
Then of course the lighter alternative seems to be cotton... well...
Then probably lighter still(?) there's silk and I'm sure many others take advantage of it's insulating properties as sleeping bag liners as I do - but who here has considered/or goes out already bushcrafting wearing a nice fetching olive drab silk pyjama combo instead of there cotton trousers and cotton shirts? (possibly rhetorical... but please do answer if you do have a nice fetching silk olive drab pyjama combo (or if you want to out somebody who does))
Or is there some great secret 'natural fibre' alternative that your keeping hush hush?

Or are we really all doomed to have to wear plastic?

On the fire note, which is I know another reason why people prefer natural fibres I have just seen this which is interesting - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kb4tCcnA6jo
Just look at all that wonderful plastic burn - oh many a fleece I have will never be the same again.

Cheers

 

[The Lord Poncho]

I would argue that cotton doesn't kill - but the incorrect application of cotton does. I have performed some of my most hardcore activities in the worst extremes of weather dressed largely in cotton, but the word 'largely' there is the caveat. On the torso, in bad weather it can't be against the skin if there is any chance of it getting wet through weather or sweat - a wicking layer is crucial, and depending on the temperature/wind chill, an insulating layer of wool or synthetic materials too. As a shell it can be reasonably effective at keeping you dry in a shower or light drizzle, be windproof, and be fire resistant and durable.

 

[John Fenna]

Linen, Bamboo rayon, hemp, silk and cotton all feature in my non woollen wardrobe for outdoor wear.

 

[Emdiesse]

Linen, Bamboo rayon, hemp, silk and cotton all feature in my non woollen wardrobe for outdoor wear.

Ah, I was waiting to hear from you John Surely you've been bought a pair of silk pink PJ's at some point at the moot?

The Lord Poncho[/COLOR];1588311]I would argue that cotton doesn't kill - but the incorrect application of cotton does. I have performed some of my most hardcore activities in the worst extremes of weather dressed largely in cotton, but the word 'largely' there is the caveat. On the torso, in bad weather it can't be against the skin if there is any chance of it getting wet through weather or sweat - a wicking layer is crucial, and depending on the temperature/wind chill, an insulating layer of wool or synthetic materials too. As a shell it can be reasonably effective at keeping you dry in a shower or light drizzle, be windproof, and be fire resistant and durable.

Yeah, that all makes sense Keeping the cotton dry with a wicking baselayer below it and a waterproof layer above it - if it does get wet... then I guess taking it off is the best choice as I you might be better without it. I presume not having the wet layer on in that situation is better than keeping it on as it'll just wick the heat away from you instead and evaporate - in the opposite sense to having wet clothes keeps you cool (or the same sense actually )

 

[Toddy]

I agree with Lord Poncho. Cotton is a lovely fabric, but if it gets wet, and it stays wet where it can chill you down, it's really not good.

Cotton is thirsty and absorbs masses of water and doesn't give it off easily (that's why we use it for towels) while linen gets wet but it's long fibres don't hang onto the water easily, and wool does get wet, eventually, but it's structure traps heat in the fibres in a way that wet cotton doesn't. Dry down is brilliant, but wet down is absolutely awful.

M

 

[santaman2000]

Interestingly, the Russian Army wore a cotton thermal underwear (a quilted version stuffed with cotton) throughout WWII. It seems to have worked well enough for them in the Russian winter.

 

[Goatboy]

Aye, but with the temperatures on the Russian steppes being in the low minuses there was very little moisture to soak out the fabric. Though in very low temps persperation vapour can build up in fabric/insulation as it freezes on the way out. I've seen down bags become pretty unpackable as moisture builds up. Though they dont pack they are still warm to sleep in - just don't try to thaw them out of it can get icy and clump. Pretty nasty.

 

[The Lord Poncho]

Interestingly, the Russian Army wore a cotton thermal underwear (a quilted version stuffed with cotton) throughout WWII. It seems to have worked well enough for them in the Russian winter.

Interesting point. Maybe it was so cold that the snow was unlikely to melt into them? On the subject of military clothing, the british army generally moved from woollen battle dress to cotton clothing in the early 1960s, although generally speaking a non cotton insulating layer was issued- originally a 'woolly pully', but later a quilted synthetic liner, and most recently an assortment of synthetic fleeces, wicking baselayers, jackets filled with synthetic fibres etc. Still, the smock over the top is remains largely cotton (polycotton mix). In the days before goretex jackets, we were very rarely allowed to wear waterproofs unless in barracks, due to the 'rustling' of the jackets - resulting in people spending many days/weeks in the field soaked through. Still, the Wooly Pullys no doubt saved the day!

 

[Goatboy]

Must say that I supplied heaps of troops with merino base layers for Iraq/Afghanistan (thin wicking layers) as one of the worries was that synthetics were flammable and could cause damage to the skin if they came into a source of ignition. Also the pong off of synthetics after 1/2 an hour of sweating never comes out. Even when soaked in a strong saline solution it only lasts for a while.
Like many folks on here who prefer to wear cotton or wool when close to a fire as they then won't go up like a Roman candle.
So cotton can save lives too!

 

[Toddy]

Dry cotton layered up is warm. Thin, loose dry cotton fabric can be cool.

Continental cold is not our temperate Atlantic Islands cold.

Look at the rainfall/precipitation for the given areas, and that and the changeability of the climate on the islands makes an enormous difference to the way clothing needs adapted.

M

 

[Martti]

Finnish Defence Forces' m/91 uniform was rated to be sufficient down to -25C for 2 hours. The underwear was made of 67 % synthetics and 33 % cotton blend, socks were blend of 66 % cotton, 33 % polyamide and 1 % lycra. Top layer was made out of almost equal amount of cotton and polyester. Wool blend was only used in mitten and boot inserts.

 

[Squidders]

%100 cotton rope is widely available and using the correct application of knots and force, can easily kill.

 

[Toddy]

Aye, mebbe so, but hemp's the more usual, is it not ?

M

 

[MikeLA]

I would say Cotton does not kill. If the person using it knows what they are doing layers up or down depending on the climate and there situation. Common sense prevails or doesnt in some people.

 

[bambodoggy]

Norgie? Otherwise known as the Norwegian Army Shirt.....100% cotton Toasty warm

 

[Toddy]

Keep it dry though, otherwise it's like wearing a wet towel. I got my cuffs wet in a burn, and they were still damp two days later

M

 

[santaman2000]

Interesting point. Maybe it was so cold that the snow was unlikely to melt into them? On the subject of military clothing, the british army generally moved from woollen battle dress to cotton clothing in the early 1960s, although generally speaking a non cotton insulating layer was issued- originally a 'woolly pully', but later a quilted synthetic liner, and most recently an assortment of synthetic fleeces, wicking baselayers, jackets filled with synthetic fibres etc. Still, the smock over the top is remains largely cotton (polycotton mix). In the days before goretex jackets, we were very rarely allowed to wear waterproofs unless in barracks, due to the 'rustling' of the jackets - resulting in people spending many days/weeks in the field soaked through. Still, the Wooly Pullys no doubt saved the day!

Sounds about right to me. Although very little (if any) wool is issued by our military anymore. The last "wooly pully" I was issued was actually polyester! It ain't bad, but I do miss the old wool ones.

 

[oetzi]

A year ago I swithed from polycotton trousers to cotton ones as everyday wear. Warmer, if its cold and not so sweaty when the temperatures rise. The civilian version of the german army trousers, the sell for a measly € 25,- and outlast my formerly worn way too expensive Fjallraven trousers. Have a look at "german army moleskin trousers", very much recommendet, they even do them in black.

But in intermediate temperatures and heavy rain, I still use the polycotton ones, as they dry so much faster. Getting the trousers wet on a bicycle commute is not that nice, when they take all day to dry out. In this aspect - the only one - P/C fares much better than 100% cotton

 

[Old Bones]

I seem to remember that 'Cotton Kills' was the name of a whole American website devoted to tales of people dying of hypothermia due to wandering around in a pair of jeans and a Fruit of the Loom T-shirt in the depths of winter. Considering the winters in much of the US, I can see why its a big deal.

As Toddy pointed out, cotton loves moisture. And in most winter conditions, once cotton gets wet, it stays wet, be it sweat, melted snow, etc. In the UK, we get cold and damp, so on the whole, best avoided. The Norgie is warm, when its dry, but have you ever seen a top made out of cotton towelling in any hiking store? There is a reason for that (and the reason my Norgie is in the car, as part of the emergency kit). On the other hand, being cotton, it doesn't burn easily, and its cheap.

I wish I could go with wool (there is a whole load of cheap merino tops and bottoms at my local Aldi), but I itch like hell with it, so its synthetics (or a cotton mix) for me. The bamboo T-shirts from Aldi are great, though. The biggest problem probably comes from people getting into conditions they never expected, in clothes they thought were fine.

 

[Chris the Cat]

Norgie? Otherwise known as the Norwegian Army Shirt.....100% cotton Toasty warm

Yes, in sub zero temps the 'fuzzy' inner finish traps the warm air.

Best.

XC.