Barney - see Wanderingblade's response (#105) for my reply to the "not long enough" comment.
As for Nostradamus... granted we can't know for sure what is going to happen, but consider this.
Handguns were outlawed to prevent the circulation and prevent them being used in violent crime.
They are now (if you believe those who've said as much in this thread, and you've not disputed what they've said so I assume you do) more widespread in the criminal world than before and being used FAR more in violent crime.
So on the available evidence would you say that the handgun ban has been:
1> A complete success in reducing violent crime with handguns.
2> A marginal success in reducing violent crime with handguns.
3> Completely neutral having had no positive or negative impact on violent crime with handguns.
4> A marginal failure in that we have seen an increase in viloent crime with handguns but one
not influenced by the ban.
5> A complete failure in that we have seen an increase in violent crime with handguns brought about by the ban.
Now, 1 and 2 certainly aren't the case.
3 might have been the case, but given the increase in violent crime with handguns we must rule that out too.
That leaves us either with the ban having zero positive effect whatsoever, or actually making things worse.
After over a decade, how much longer do you need to watch violent crime with handguns increase steadily starting from a falling trend pre-ban before you agree that indeed the ban has been a failure.
Once you come to realise that the ban has had no positive impact on the reduction of violent crime with handguns, and served only to alienate, marginalise and in some cases criminalise completely non-violent citizens (including our olympic pistol shooters who have to leave the country to train) you'll see exactly why I, and others object not only to the utterly absurd handgun laws in this country but also to any suggestion that a licencing system or any further restriction on the ownership, use and carry of sharp tools.
History has shown us time and again that such bans are either ineffective or damaging. There's no nostradamus prediction going on here... he looked at the past and said "it will happen again" (he worked on the "history repeats itself" principle) - I (and others) look at history and try to learn from its mistakes.
Albert Einstein said:
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
As for the "people like you" comment - it was meant as a general collective term for people who argue that "if it saves just one life" when every shred of evidence we have from the whole of history is that banning any tool, object (or indeed weapon) to reduce crime fails to achieve it.
The
only thing it achieves is, at best, the alienation, criminalisation and marginalisation of everyday citizens.
At worst it achieves the victimisation and sometimes even complete abuse and in worst case massacre of the same.
Those who refuse to learn from history and are intent to follow the same nonsensical and ineffective paths in the name of the utterly fictional "just one life saved" are, in my mind, almost as guilty as the person wielding the murder weapon, as it is exactly that approach which allows those predators who arm themselves in spite of laws and prey on the innocent unchecked.
If you learn from history and put it into practice, you make the predator's job more difficult and remove any possible accusation of complicity.
I'm going to stop here as this is a wide open door for stepping into the whole self defence argument, and that's a door I'm not about to walk through as too many people on this board finr the topic strangely uncomfortable.
Apologies for any offence I might have cause with the "people like you" comment, it was not intended.
I'm not always right, I don't have to be right, I just argue very hard when it's something I care about and have this habit of pouncing on things that sound sensible on the surface but are actually mistaken, misleading and in some cases, downright dangerous and ignorant of history.
Anyway - enough for tonight.
Draven - Thanks for the Jefferson quote. I actually need to get around to reading some of his work - from the scraps I've seen so far it strikes me that he was the kind of politician/leader we are in dire need of today.