What can you do without?

[gregorach]

So it seems the essence of my original post is yes! This forum has evolved into a bushkit forum because there's only so much you can talk about bushcraft skills.

It appears that it is infinitely more interesting and sexier to talk about kit.

I feel the site has indeed evolved into a bushkit site.

That's not quite what I said... I wouldn't agree that it's a "bushkit" site at all. There's plenty of other discussions going on all the time. You may wish that the ratio of kit discussion were lower, but I don't think it's fair to say that it's the main focus of the site.

Sorry if I sound all legalistic, been on jury service for the last week...

 

[leon-b]

Well Fire Starter, what in particular would you like to discuss on this forum that does not involve kit? Start a thread and see what happens. I would love to discuss plants, trees and nature, but I live in South Louisiana. The plants, trees and nature here are a bit different than what you are accustomed to.

yes i second that i would be very interseted to read about that sort of stuff
leon

 

[ArkAngel]

So it seems the essence of my original post is yes! This forum has evolved into a bushkit forum because there's only so much you can talk about bushcraft skills.

It appears that it is infinitely more interesting and sexier to talk about kit.

I feel the site has indeed evolved into a bushkit site.

I think it depends on how you view the subject

My thoughts on it are this

Mr Mears and the like tell us and demonstrate to us various 'ancient' ways of living (shelter building, fire making, how to eat and survive off the land etc). Now most tell us these ways have been around for many hundreds if not thousands of years and have vitually unchanged in that time, mainly because they work!

If this forum is a continuation of that then surely there is only a finite amount of topics and information that could ever be posted on the subject. Say 10 ways of making fire from around the world (hand drill, bow drill, bamboo fire saw etc) and those skills could and should be learnt and applied in the relevant situation.

The same would apply for shelter building, water collection, food, coradage making and so on.

A lot of these skills are increased or expanded on by the input of modern technology, gadgets and materials. I do not suggest in any way that we stop talking about kit but neither should we stop learning or talking about these 'older' methods of Bushcraft.

I am very interested to hear about cordage making, fire by friction, shelter buildind etc but i feel because either i do not know the skills or have the land to practise them on i have nothing to contribute further to the topic. i would suspect that is why most people would be happy to discuss why the Ray Mears saw is £80 but when a post appears "What type of fungi is this?" only a handful of people on the site will have a clue.

As i understand it a lot of the 'longer serving' members of the site have drifted away beacause of the discussion of kit or that they were constantly been asked the same questions by the newer members.

My hope would be that as we all become better bushcraters we will have that "zen" moment when we realise that we have all the kit we need and concentrate on the subject and the world around us as opposed to how shiney our knives are I hope this is something that happens in the evolution of a bushcrafter, form "all the gear and no idea" to "i am at one with nature"

I for one am starting to realise i have a wealth of top class gear that should last me a lifetime if properly looked after, my next purchase will be a tree identification book so i can identify more than the silver birch we have round us!

 

[ArkAngel]

Well Fire Starter, what in particular would you like to discuss on this forum that does not involve kit? Start a thread and see what happens. I would love to discuss plants, trees and nature, but I live in South Louisiana. The plants, trees and nature here are a bit different than what you are accustomed to.

Would love to see some pictures of that area

 

[AndyW]

As a noobie it's interesting to see what people are actually doing and how.

As others have said these skills haven't changed much over time and the information is largely available if you look. However, kit does change and discussing it prevents expensive mistakes.

Don't misunderstand me, the skills are important and I intend to gradually learn what I can but the most important thing is to simply get out there and know I can deal with anything and be comfatable. Yes, I'd like to learn how to make cord to tie up some supports for a tarp or build a complete shelter but I'm not going to get wet because I don't yet know how to do it.

This thread has given me an idea though...

 

[rik_uk3]

I think it depends on how you view the subject

My thoughts on it are this

Mr Mears and the like tell us and demonstrate to us various 'ancient' ways of living (shelter building, fire making, how to eat and survive off the land etc). Now most tell us these ways have been around for many hundreds if not thousands of years and have virtually unchanged in that time, mainly because they work!

If this forum is a continuation of that then surely there is only a finite amount of topics and information that could ever be posted on the subject. Say 10 ways of making fire from around the world (hand drill, bow drill, bamboo fire saw etc) and those skills could and should be learnt and applied in the relevant situation.

The same would apply for shelter building, water collection, food, cordage making and so on.

A lot of these skills are increased or expanded on by the input of modern technology, gadgets and materials. I do not suggest in any way that we stop talking about kit but neither should we stop learning or talking about these 'older' methods of Bushcraft.

I am very interested to hear about cordage making, fire by friction, shelter buildind etc but i feel because either i do not know the skills or have the land to practise them on i have nothing to contribute further to the topic. i would suspect that is why most people would be happy to discuss why the Ray Mears saw is £80 but when a post appears "What type of fungi is this?" only a handful of people on the site will have a clue.

As i understand it a lot of the 'longer serving' members of the site have drifted away beacause of the discussion of kit or that they were constantly been asked the same questions by the newer members.

My hope would be that as we all become better bushcraters we will have that "zen" moment when we realise that we have all the kit we need and concentrate on the subject and the world around us as opposed to how shiney our knives are I hope this is something that happens in the evolution of a bushcrafter, form "all the gear and no idea" to "i am at one with nature"

I for one am starting to realise i have a wealth of top class gear that should last me a lifetime if properly looked after, my next purchase will be a tree identification book so i can identify more than the silver birch we have round us!

You raised some good points there, I for one love gadgets and technology, and am guilty of buying more gear than I will use But this thread has made me think back to what I used as a your teenage hillwalker in North Wales, and I got by very happily on very little

Mountain Tent (Black's for those who remember them)
Primus stove
2 army mess tins
sleeping bag
lilo air bed
candles
spare pants and socks
few tins of food
army water bottle
and that was more or less it, and would do me for a long weekend no problem. Bloody hell, these days mp3 players, digital camera's, GPS, mobile phones etc are seemed essential by some

 

[Shinken]

"a post about knives gets 100's of replies, but something about making cordage gets less than 10" (my apologies for the misquote, but you get the idea

I agree but on a different note. Just try and write instructions on how to make cordage. you will find that you need a LOT more words than you think!

It's funny you learn something, practice it and you start to think it's simple.... untill you try and write it down in detail.

Also cordage dosnt have any component that shine!

 

[pierre girard]

Inspired by Stuarts footnote "Success is not measured by what you have, but by what you can do without" I thought I would start a new thread.

It does seem to me that although this is a Bushcraft forum, 80% of the information is all about kit or kit related.
I was wondering if the true essence of Bushcraft is disappearing under a pile of knives and other kit.
I would love to see and read more bushcraft after all there are other sites dedicated to kit and knives that we could all visit.

I have been watching the old Tracks programmes, early Ray Mears and to be honest this is what Bushcraft is all about, don't you think. Everyone seems to have the kit but I do not read or see much bushcraft coming from all that kit.

I understand that you may want to take some kit with you to make life more comfortable whilst out in the woods practicing a new bushcraft skill but what about the nature? use of plants? trees? shelter building techniques? How to build a full fishing rig using only natural materials? That's the rant over.

We go out for a week, once a year, on a late autumn "starvation trek." We bring minimal gear and no food. It is well named. We usually starve or freeze - to some degree. Still, we keep doing it, year after year.

 

[Deleted member 4605]

As others have stated there are only so many bushcraft techniques to discuss, and it's more important to be out there doing them than talking about them.

It's natural that more people talk about kit - after all it's shiny - but I've recently realised myself that I'm thinking too much about kit and not enough about actually getting out there and doing it, so I'm trying to address that.

I think less people are willing to ask questions for fear of looking foolish, but it doesn't have to be like that - look at leon-b's epic list to learn thread.

 

[Shinken]

I think we can all learn from Leons enthusiam

 

[hammock monkey]

kit is great, but there's nothing to beat knowledge, in terms of 'what you take with you'.
i love the idea of going out without a knife, i started a thread about it a while ago.
could you go to the woods with nothing, and be ok?
i'm certain it'd be lovely in dry summer time like most of us, but the rain would soon shrivel my enthusiam!
Just 'sitting on a log' for a few hours teaches me more than any catalogue, i agree that kit is more of a distraction when it (sneakily) becomes the reason for going...
I love the starvation week idea...people pay the equivalent of $1000 to do that in the UK for a week, which shows how much value the knowlegde has.
at the end of the day, to me, bushcraft is about finding out as much about the world as possible, taking endless toys out is fun, but i guess its a free world, eh? shame i'm sat in here, not out there!
time to do summat about that...

 

[Fire Starter]

Well Fire Starter, what in particular would you like to discuss on this forum that does not involve kit? Start a thread and see what happens. I would love to discuss plants, trees and nature, but I live in South Louisiana. The plants, trees and nature here are a bit different than what you are accustomed to.

yes i second that i would be very interseted to read about that sort of stuff
leon

First of all, thanks to everyone who has taken the time and contribute to this thread, from the Noobie through to the starvation treker (sounds great)
Well, I can't believe what I am reading here. Some people seem to think that Bushcraft skills, knowledge etc is very limited as far as a discussion goes and that kit can be discussed to infinity.
I've spoken to a few people at the wilderness gathering in September this year and the general opinion was that it would take more than a lifetime to acquire the knowledge and skills contained within Bushcraft.
Ok so we have thousands of posts on knifes, talking about the maker, grind, tang, steel, scales material etc but where is the bushcraft that comes from such a tool - It's not the knife we should be discussing, but what you can do with it and the various methods of using it and the different woods and their varying properties etc.
Saying that there is only so much to say about cordage making, fire by friction and whatever is an extremely narrow minded view of Bushcraft in my opinion.
I realised after my first attempt at nettle cordage that cordage making was a huge subject in its own right. There are thousands of plants, trees, shrubs out there that I do not know the name of never mind their cordage making potential.
I take it Gregorach that you know all about cordage making and you are competent in the various fire by friction methods, bow drill, hand drill, fire plough, fire saw, pump drill, fire thong and the various woods and their different qualities?
Fenlander I noticed you came in to this thread with a positive post and I checked out your site (great site by the way) what do you think? as you are a practitioner of Bushcraft and primitive skills.
Just look at the number of posts in edged tools and kit chatter, you'll see what I'm trying to say. What ever the subject topic the conversation always turns around to kit.

Finally, I want to make it clear that I do not wish to start a "I know more than you competition" I come on here to read and learn about Bushcraft
Not to read about who has best chopper

 

[Wayland]

I spend my working life teaching people about ancient life and technologies.

I have a large storehouse of reproduction equipment from the Iron age to Early Medieval periods.

I have slept on the deck of a longship and under my shield on the battlefield.

I've made my own tools and even the tools with which to make my tools.

Every now and again I like to have a few things that make life comfortable when I'm relaxing.

Bushcraft does not mean having to go without. It means going with what you are comfortable with.

For some that will be a flake of flint and others it will be a bergen full of high tech wundergoodies.

The important thing is that we get out there and "do it" in a sustainable low impact way.

What's with all the navel gazing?

 

[ArkAngel]

I agree

I tend to find i am goingout with less gear these days...
..mind you this is because i bought a digital camera a while ago and the bushcraft goodies are starting to make way for camera gear

I can forsee a time when i get rid of all my bushcrafty gear and just carry camera equipment. I will still contribute to the site (and bore you all senseless with more photo's ) and be a staunch supporter ofthis excellent forum.

Keep your eyes peeled, i may be getting rid of some nice shiney stuff soon! :yikes:

 

[madrussian]

Going White tail deer hunting next weekend in an area North of Baton Rouge. I will try to get some pictures to post. The area is much nicer then around my home town. Nothing but sugar cane fields.

 

[Fire Starter]

I spend my working life teaching people about ancient life and technologies.

I have a large storehouse of reproduction equipment from the Iron age to Early Medieval periods.

I have slept on the deck of a longship and under my shield on the battlefield.

I've made my own tools and even the tools with which to make my tools.

Every now and again I like to have a few things that make life comfortable when I'm relaxing.

Bushcraft does not mean having to go without. It means going with what you are comfortable with.

For some that will be a flake of flint and others it will be a bergen full of high tech wundergoodies.

The important thing is that we get out there and "do it" in a sustainable low impact way.

What's with all the navel gazing?

Sorry Wayland,
I was under the impression that this was a bushcraft site. Not a viking re-enactment chat room.

May I draw your attention to the essence of my original and subsequent posts. I actually agree with you in that we should get out their and "do it" and then discuss on the bushcraft forum.

I found your post very interesting but fail to see what it has to do with bushcraft.

Can I ask which battlefield you slept on and were their many casualtys?

Not sure what you mean by navel gazing? Is that something you do on the deck of a long ship with one eye open?

 

[Deleted member 4605]

What's with all the navel gazing?

A frequent problem in the common or garden internet forum.

I can see this thread turning nasty, so I'll probably avoid it from here on in.

 

[dwardo]

Firestarter,

It seems as if you have your own version of minimalistic bushcraft and i think thats what its all about different opinions but please do not try to put anyone elses version down. Which is what i think you seem to be doing

I know you may prefer a certain type of what you call bushcrafting but you seem to be coining the phrase as your own an i rekon thats a bit out of order mate.

If this offends i apologise ONCE again

The thing that makes me love what I call bushcraft so much is there arent any exams, levels, one upmanship b***x of which everyday life is full off.

It what it means to YOU ! that counts

 

[ArkAngel]

Sorry Wayland,
I was under the impression that this was a bushcraft site. Not a viking re-enactment chat room.

May I draw your attention to the essence of my original and subsequent posts. I actually agree with you in that we should get out their and "do it" and then discuss on the bushcraft forum.

I found your post very interesting but fail to see what it has to do with bushcraft.

Can I ask which battlefield you slept on and were their many casualtys?

Not sure what you mean by navel gazing? Is that something you do on the deck of a long ship with one eye open?

I have to agree with Dwardo

Please do not start having a go at other members on the site because their interpretation of bushcraft is not the same as your own. As others have said bushcraft is different things to different people.
I have not camped out for years nor do i intend to, am i not a bushcrafter?
I like the outdoors and enjoy learning about the environment i am in, but i have never built a shelter in the woods, only ever eaten rabbits i have shot in the house.
I know i am a 'fringe/armchair' bushcrafter as are a lot of people on this site.

1 thing i like about this site is that all people are welcomed wether they are serious hardcore survivalists or armchair enthusaiste. All contributions and opinions are welcomed.

Please just appreciate that your opinion is just that, your opinion. There are over 3000 opinions on this site and as far as i am concerned all are right

 

[Wayland]

Sorry Wayland,

I found your post very interesting but fail to see what it has to do with bushcraft.

My point is, going with minimal or ancient kit is something I do all the time. I enjoy it and it has afforded me many interesting opportunities but sometimes even I need a break from it.

Bushcraft is something I do for fun so what is wrong with having a few luxuries or modern pieces of kit?

If you are advocating that we should all do away with modern equipment because it is not "Bushcrafty" in some way then how far do you take it.

Should it be pre 20th century or prehistoric?

Should we use stainless steel blades or flint ones?

Bushcraft has far more to do with attitude and mind set than whether or not you can do without this or that piece of equipment.

Take fire for example, presumably a subject close to your heart.

The lightest and easiest fire making method is a match. That is really "Carrying less by knowing more".

However many people on this site choose to use other methods, all of which require more equipment not less. They usually do this, not because it is easier or lighter, but because it is more rewarding in some way.

Even fire by friction usually requires a blade of some kind to get started.

It's an interesting point that gear gets more attention on the site than techniques but without the gear most people from this site would not get out to practice the techniques.

I don't think there's much you can do to change that.