Survival, no kit

[shortymcsteve]

Hey, chill the hell out fella!!!!!!!
Iv not looked on any of those forums either so have no idea of the content, I was just trying to help th OP and maybe point him in another direction he had never thought about.
It could have been just what he was looking for!!!

Fair enough, i just read it as you were trying to tell him to go else where and bushcraft was not what he was looking for. I guess i came off the wrong way too, sorry.

In terms of answering this question in the original post. Yes it does. Even down to the path you choose to get out. You will find different items even if you move a foot to the left in the same area and repeat. To answer this hypothetical question hypothetically is next to impossible as it could lead to an infinite number of outcomes and answers as I mentioned in my last post...

...Yes, this is absolutely true. But again the location provides different means and needs different skills to meet the requirements. To post all those skills needed into one post in answer to the original question would be akin to typing all the survival manuals and primitive skills books published in one place all at once. It's an impossible question to answer succinctly and in detail. CACTUS ELF has asked a question that is simply impossible to answer in a simple post on a forum. Bear Grylls has filmed about 500 hours worth of stuff based on exactly this scenario but with an easier option of having a knife and water bottle. I can't type all that into one post, as much as I'd want to. The variables are massive and almost infinite.

I completely agree with everything you just said, however my point was there is always basic needs that you have to fulfil in any situation no matter where you are in the world. No one gave a basic answer and the general response was "we need more details otherwise we can't help". Any bushcraft book i have read is always about Shelter, fire, water & food, I didn't see anyone else bring that up and that's what i was getting at. Of course being in a desert to being out in a jungle is going to be completely different & specified knowledge of a certain area is going be of great use. I just know that there are basic skills that you can adapt across the board no matter where you are to achieve the same results.

 

[maddave]

Here is Stuarts article... Very good read

http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9951&highlight=survival+cup+of+tea

 

[JonathanD]

Down to basics I'd find shelter, water, food and rescue. En route, and during the quest to locate secure these four goals I'd find the means/tools to make those quests better, more sustainable and realistic based upon the knowledge gained up untill that point. Beyond that, it's all improvisation and adaptation to overcome the barriers placed in the way of achieving those goals.

 

[JonathanD]

I completely agree with everything you just said, however my point was there is always basic needs that you have to fulfil in any situation no matter where you are in the world. No one gave a basic answer and the general response was "we need more details otherwise we can't help". Any bushcraft book i have read is always about Shelter, fire, water & food, I didn't see anyone else bring that up and that's what i was getting at. Of course being in a desert to being out in a jungle is going to be completely different & specified knowledge of a certain area is going be of great use. I just know that there are basic skills that you can adapt across the board no matter where you are to achieve the same results.

Yeah, but you try and post all the info you know about getting water from a wild river even in a specified area and making it healthy to drink into one post and you'll see how deep you have to get. And that is only a tiny aspect of answering the original post. It turns out that explaining it isn't so basic. It requires a shed load of typing even to explain how to get that water safe, let alone about finding it. Add to that all the other important areas and you'll be typing that one post way into the latter half of 2013

 

[cbr6fs]

Thought about this and so many variables play a VAST amount in how i'd handle a certain situation.

Take seasons for example.
Being stuck out at night in a Greek summer requires VERY different priorities than being stuck out through a Greek winter, especially a Northern Greek winter.

If i was in a vehicle would make a MASSIVE difference, as i'd be more likely to stay with the vehicle.

When situations have come up for me in the past i've always walked out.
There are very places i'd visit that couldn't be "walked out" in say a 24 hour period, so i'd just get my head down and keep walking.


For me though survival is not making a rope out of nettles, it's having a phone, GPS, map and compass so i won't actually need a rope.
I'm not going to dig a ice hole as i hate the cold so have no interest in hiking in icey, snow filled conditions.
I have an emergency bivvy bag with me at all times when hiking, so i don't have to make a shelter.

I leave my route, and estimated return time with at least 2 separate people, so if i'm not back in time they will know where to look for me.
If i break a leg i'll make a splint and crawl out.

So i really can't envisage a situation where i'd need to use any type of TV type survival rubbish, my survival strategy is simply to plan for as many eventualities as i can so i don't have to faff about building shelters, setting snares etc.


The other thing is, i've been in training situations where i've had very very little to eat for 2 weeks.
Sitting in your nice warm house with a full belly, behind your PC is a COMPLETELY different mindset then being out alone, thirsty and hungry.
After 24 hours of not eating your decision making process and energy levels really take a beating.

I've seen tough as nails, special forces guys sit there crying themselves to sleep cause they didn't have the energy to get up and fetch water from a stream 50 meters away.

You can have all the skills in the world, but if your not mentally strong or even more importantly have something to keep you going, your screwed before you even start.

So for me survival is covering as many bases as you can to PREVENT being lost or stuck out over night unexpectedly.
Having a goal i.e. getting out to see your loved ones.
Adapting to solve problems as they inevitably come up.

 

[rik_uk3]

"I've seen tough as nails, special forces guys sit there crying themselves to sleep cause they didn't have the energy to get up and fetch water from a stream 50 meters away."

Greek special forces then.

 

[cbr6fs]

Greek special forces then.

Nope American.

 

[CACTUS ELF]

Oldtimer : The name came from a pub quiz team i happened to take part in once, Catus Elves was the name, read it a bit differnently "cak'd our selves"
not really the ref you made, ok so maybe not that funny but it raised a few smiles at the time

I agree survival is about being prepard in a best case situation, but what if you have no kit? that was the idea of this thread. Ok so maybe you would just be dead after a while, but i thought people might be able to make a few points about what they'd try. this wasnt ment as a wind up, I think i've said that enough now though.

JonathanD : I hear you mate, to answer in a complete and full manner you would be right with what you say. Honestly though i didnt think it would be taken that way. i was after a few ideas on what people would do without their kit, maybe that should have been the post but i thought giving a bit of a situation might start thing off.

To all, thanks for your input. Some good, Some not so (the p?@s taking) but it seems thats my fault for not knowing how to post a simple question in the correct form that wouldn't make people believe i was out for trouble. Never mind now though as i've decided to research the information elsewhere as i really dont care to be involved in this, what should have been fun but wasn't, post. Shame that isn't it!!!!

I hope in future that persons who post on this forum ask in what form the questions should be asked in the welcome area, before posting them so as not to cause such a fuss.


Thanks again to those who got the idea and had a go

 

[Toddy]

There's no point trying to pass the buck.

The onus is on the poster to make themselves clear, not on the reader to do the work for them.

If you had started a 'survival' thread though, you would have been politely reminded to have a think about where you are. This is the UK, it's an incredibly changeable temperate climate with no natural predators and very few areas where you cannot obtain help or walk out from.

If you really wanted information on how to make tools, then you should simply have asked for that. Lots of 'crafters' in the bushcraft world

cheers,
Toddy

 

[CACTUS ELF]

Hi all, if you found yourselves in a survival situation in a forest. where you had no kit except for boots, trousers/skirt and t-shirt. what bushcraft skills could you use to get by? Would it be possible for you without a knife or gore-tex jacket? What would be your plan of action? How would you make fire without something to make a notch for your bow drill? How would you eat? what would you drink, wee? thanks

Pass the buck????? - i dont think so mate, read the thread!

The onus is on the poster to make themselves clear???? - Is it really not clear? I've highlighted it in this post for you!

This is the UK, it's an incredibly changeable temperate climate with no natural predators and very few areas where you cannot obtain help or walk out from. - Already pointed out in the thread, lots of areas you cant walkout from but it seems without os grid refs you lot aint happy!


Maybe it should have read "Bushcraft, no tools" in the title.

Or maybe as i said, i shouldn't have bothered.

So much for a friendly forum ay!!!!!!

 

[jacko1066]

Cactus pal,
How about this, forget everything thats written and start again on this thread.
How about thinking about somewhere you wold really like to go and start from there.
E.g, I would love to go on the canoe trip to Canada they are advertising on here, so why not give a scenario, for instance, you are in canada in the middle of knowhere on a canoe trip when all of a sudden you capsize in some fast flowing water, all your kit has gone down stream with ohope of getting it, you were being stupid that day so didnt bother to put your life jacket on, you swim to the shore but now all you have is the shorts your wearing, shoes, t shirt and thats it.
Its a beautiful 25 deg c so hypothermia isnt a worry, but the fact your a good few days walk from anywhere with no tools and kit is a major worry.
How would ou survive? What primitive techniques would you use to help you in your current situation?
Hope this is helpful mate, you would get some really brilliant replys from everyone round here, I certainly have never been let down!!
Just dont ask me the above cause I would be rubbish lol!!
All the best
Steve

 

[Corso]

It's the 'survival situation' and 'getting by using bushcraft' which are confusing people.

The survival skills any sensible person would employ in that situation would be used to get the hell out of there - not stick around and do a bit of bushcraft.

but maybe you've reached the right conclusion - it's what I thought in my first reply....

 

[Toddy]

CACTUS ELF, this is a polite heads up...........don't rail at me.
Your 'scenario' is so pathetically open ended that it's useless unless one lives in a fantasy world.
We don't.
If you want to discuss TEOTWAWKI scenarios go play with people who do.

Toddy

 

[Toddy]

That's not me ranting at real Preppers I hasten to add; they're mostly very practical people.

M

 

[cbr6fs]

Hi all, if you found yourselves in a survival situation in a forest. where you had no kit except for boots, trousers/skirt and t-shirt. what bushcraft skills could you use to get by? Would it be possible for you without a knife or gore-tex jacket? What would be your plan of action? How would you make fire without something to make a notch for your bow drill? How would you eat? what would you drink, wee? thanks

But i would NOT be without the equipment i felt i needed, because i take precautions and look after my stuff.
I also have redundancy, my map and compass is usually in my trouser pocket, my GPS in my bag and my phone on my belt.

For the sake of argument though if i did loose all 3 AND my bag AND everything in my pockets AND my bumbag then i still would have absolutely no intentions, or need to make a fire or eat.

I'd walk until i found a road, house etc then get a lift back home or back to my car.

If it was night i have a very very basic knowledge of stars, but it has been and believe it still is enough to get me going in roughly the right direction.
I'd be pretty screwed in the Atlantic, but where i go hiking it's not really remote enough to matter if i'm a few degrees out.

In the day time i would use the Sun to ensure i'm not walking in circles.


I wouldn't start a fire and i wouldn't eat anything as there is absolutely no way i'd be there long enough to worry about either.


My only concern here in summer would be water, but i know of a few fresh water wells and we have a millions of litres of water spread around in HUGEEEEEEEEE containers for fire suppression.
Not ideal with a filter but if needs must.

 

[Fat Rog]

A bit of calm is in order I think. My late Grandfather always taught me that there is no such thing as a daft question, only daft answers. Perhaps Cactus Elf could have worded his question differently, but I think we all knew what he was talking about. We (me included) all like to have a laugh but once the ribbing has ended, it's time to look at the question more seriously IMHO. There is certainly no need for nastiness, and sorry but some of the answers given here come across as just plain nasty and designed to make the poor guy feel like an idiot. That's why after my first post (hoard of hungry cannibals etc.), I tried to give a more sensible answer. I thought perhaps others with more experience might have done the same. Seems I was wrong. In fact I'd go so far as to say that there is quite a lot of that sort of thing on this site, not just on this particular thread. Can we give it a rest please? Another lesson from Grandad: If you've nothing good to say, say nothing.

While it is true that most of us like to think we are prepared for every eventuality, the fact is that you cannot forsee every possible scenario. Even the most experienced and highly trained individual can fall short in some circumstances. Take for example the world famous "Fan Dance", part of the SAS selection process. This is carried out by VERY highly trained individuals, and they are sent across the Breacon Beracons with very little kit. A good number have died , not all of them trainees, some of them have been with the regiment for years and yet they still come unstuck. So yes, there is the possibility that, even in mainland Britain you can find yourself in a "survival situation". Yes, the fan dance is an extreme example, but isn't that rather the point? That even here in the UK it is possible to find yourself in an extreme situation?

So lets look at the question again in a different light, and see if we can come up with some sensible answers, yeah? IF you found yourself in a remote location (either at home or abroad) and you had, for whatever reason, lost all your kit, what would you do? You've got the clothes on your back, the boots on your feet and nothing else, and it's many miles to the nearest road/ village/ pub. No map and compass, no knife, no matches, no mobile phone. Just your clothes, your boots and your brain power. It's not an "end of the world as we know it" scenario, more of a "the sh*t's hit the fan" type of situation. How would YOU handle it?

SENSIBLE answers only please

 

[Corso]

walk home...

 

[Fat Rog]

walk home...

Ultimately yeah, but lets assume that the walk home is likely to take more than 24 hours (it's not that unrealistic a proposition, it it?). In the summer in the UK you might not need to build a shelter, but what about in winter? How would you know which way you were heading? I gave the example of using a watch to determine the north/ south line, and using the north star at night. What about cloudy days and nights?

 

[blackfeather]

stuck in some place having no idea where you are in just your shorts and a shirt is not as crazy it may sound. during ww2 part of the training programme for german paratroopers consisted of being taken in groups of two or 3 from their billets at night forcibly. head covered and just in their shorts and vest. boots but no socks.. during the time they were captive not a word was spoken to them. they were taken into one of the bavarian forest somewhere above the treeline and told then to find their way back to the camp they came from and another requirement theymust bring an edelwiess back with them. this is in my mind a real test of survival and bushcraft at its utmost.. statistically 3 out of every five made it back. these were men at the peak of physical fitness moral fibre and determination.. dont think many of us would have made it back....

 

[Limaed]

Ultimately yeah, but lets assume that the walk home is likely to take more than 24 hours (it's not that unrealistic a proposition, it it?). In the summer in the UK you might not need to build a shelter, but what about in winter? How would you know which way you were heading? I gave the example of using a watch to determine the north/ south line, and using the north star at night. What about cloudy days and nights?

Well TBH in the UK most people walk out in the morning after a miserable night trying to keep warm or wander around at night until they are picked up by a rescue service. Those that are poorly equipped or skilled often don't survive. One thing you haven't considered is that you are likely to be missed.
Unless you live as a hermit its likely someone will let the Police know of your absence in which case in the developed world at least the survival situation is not likely to be protracted. Those that head out without kit will often die of hypothermia although some have survived by digging a snow hole or cutched up behind rocks.

Your example of SAS selection isn't very good, the route they use (or used perhaps?) is fairly easy to escape from however this would mean failing the course. The guys die as they are exhausted from the cumulative effects of their endeavors and not realizing how cold / exhausted they are getting. Carrying a 25 kg bergan doesn't help either!

There is a certain truth in the saying 'There is no bad weather only bad clothing' so if your clothing is good it's likely you will be rescued or will walk out.