Make a shed from wood in woodland or buy cheap wooden one?

[Toddy]

Buy some mint oil and some of the cottonwool type make up pads. Pack those in gaps where you think they're likely to try to come in.

I don't know why, but rodents find the smell of the mint overpowering and avoid routes where they have to pass it.

It's a useful way to passively keep them out if they're just chancing things. You do need to refresh the mint though, but it lasts for a long time anyway in the cold.

M

 

[Glow_worm]

I'll echo a previous comment that you may be overthinking things too much.

From what you've told us, you have no planning permission on your land. You have around an acre of essentially unmanaged woodland, which we'll presume for now would be regarded officially as woodland rather than scrub or wasteland. You might officially get away with a structure related to the 'woodland' if it is regarded is such, but you may find yourself needing to justify it's existence to the authorities. A tiny area of woodland without a management plan in place is a bit borderline for requiring a structure.

My experience of being involved in several projects (woodland management, historic buildings techniques, permaculture, regenerative farming) has been that regardless of good intentions, doing the right thing by the planet, there will always be somebody in the locality who objects and makes life difficult, stirring things up with the council. Every time without fail! Given that you are living in a van and coming and going to a piece of land you have just bought, it is likely somebody is worried you are aiming to live there and will moan to the council who will also be worried you are trying to live there. Don't give them any excuse to hound you. Start small and simple, if it turns out everyone in the locality supports you, then get more creative.

And yes, there is a 28 day rule regards camping in a tent on your own land, but it doesn't apply to vans or buildings (which would have to comply with building regs, planning permission for residential use and council tax). Even staying legally in a tent is likely to get the alarm bells ringing with locals though, it would be sensible to avoid that for a year or two.

I really don't mean to put a downer on things. But probably best to keep things quick, simple and easily dismantleable if there is trouble, or make things really well hidden (including from drones these days). Paranoid? No, I've just experienced people's fear of change in a neighborhood.

 

[Stew]

How about this for an idea for you:

 

[Broch]

I'll echo a previous comment that you may be overthinking things too much.

From what you've told us, you have no planning permission on your land. You have around an acre of essentially unmanaged woodland, which we'll presume for now would be regarded officially as woodland rather than scrub or wasteland. You might officially get away with a structure related to the 'woodland' if it is regarded is such, but you may find yourself needing to justify it's existence to the authorities. A tiny area of woodland without a management plan in place is a bit borderline for requiring a structure.

My experience of being involved in several projects (woodland management, historic buildings techniques, permaculture, regenerative farming) has been that regardless of good intentions, doing the right thing by the planet, there will always be somebody in the locality who objects and makes life difficult, stirring things up with the council. Every time without fail! Given that you are living in a van and coming and going to a piece of land you have just bought, it is likely somebody is worried you are aiming to live there and will moan to the council who will also be worried you are trying to live there. Don't give them any excuse to hound you. Start small and simple, if it turns out everyone in the locality supports you, then get more creative.

And yes, there is a 28 day rule regards camping in a tent on your own land, but it doesn't apply to vans or buildings (which would have to comply with building regs, planning permission for residential use and council tax). Even staying legally in a tent is likely to get the alarm bells ringing with locals though, it would be sensible to avoid that for a year or two.

I really don't mean to put a downer on things. But probably best to keep things quick, simple and easily dismantleable if there is trouble, or make things really well hidden (including from drones these days). Paranoid? No, I've just experienced people's fear of change in a neighborhood.

However, one is allowed to erect shelter and accommodation for 'woodland workers' for use during the season. No-one has defined 'the season' but it is accepted to be less than 1 year and the shelter cannot be permanent (running water, mains supply etc.), which is why I built a shepherd's hut.

The definition of 'commercial woodland' is also questionable - selling walking sticks is a commercial enterprise

 

[Dave Budd]

As just mentioned, any structure that is available to be slept in requires planning permission. Shepherds huts and caravans are movable so pass as seasonal abodes when working the woodland, but they should still be moved between seasons or they are thought of as permanent, I too have had the planning people at my place a few times over the years!

So as suggested, keep it quick and cheap. Originally this was a workshop not a bedroom, so I didn't think of that factor

As for rodents. Live and let live for the most part, but you can limit their interest by not leaving food where they can smell or get to it. I have constant mouse visitors in the workshop where I kip occasionally and for the most part keeping food locked away and the bin bag off the floor works fine. Every now and then they get bold, such as the start of winter, and I get more trace of them (the poop on my bedding and chew things!). I find that if I set traps and catch a few of the ring leaders they stay away for a while. I don't poison because you end up hurting other critters and the rodents also crawl somewhere inconvenient to die (like in my spare clothes or bedding!). I've been trying the mint oil since Toddy mentioned it to me a while back and I think it's more miss than hit for me, but I'll keep trying in vain until I run out of mint oil as I've bought it. Apparently any strong smells will deter them (clove oil has been suggested and tried with no good effect).

You'll not find rodents running over or near your face as you sleep. Like me, they tend to avoid getting too close to humans. If you leave your bedding set up for days or weeks then they will likely go running around on it (urinating and defecating as they go) simply because they will find interesting scents around it to investigate. Just pack your bedding away in an ammo box when not in use.

For driving posts that are taller than you are, get a post driver. It's a metal tube with a weight at one end and handles on either side; looks like a cyberman's head. if you can lift it a few inches then it will start driving the post in and despite being a short bottom I've driven posts that are much taller than me! As people have said, remove the bark and char the ends and posts last longer but even fresh off the tree hazel bark on and driven into the ground did for my first log store for about 6 years

As to species of tree. You need to find out what you have!!!! If you aren't sure, post photos of the trees and the leaves here and some of us will try and help

 

[Broch]

As just mentioned, any structure that is available to be slept in requires planning permission. Shepherds huts and caravans are movable so pass as seasonal abodes when working the woodland, but they should still be moved between seasons or they are thought of as permanent, I too have had the planning people at my place a few times over the years!

That's not quite the regulations as stipulated - the 'abode' (never call it that, it's a shelter and/or a store) should be capable of being moved (actually, only 15m) but does not have to. I've been through this with solicitors and planners. However, luckily, I've never had to test it

Just one point, some of these issues are down to local byelaws and planning office interpretation.

 

[Toddy]

The mint trick really only stops them coming in through gaps. It's a real discouragement. I found it worked to wipe mint around the food box bases too when we were camping. No sign of rodents.

A decent wee terrier or a good mouser moggie helps a lot though

 

[Glow_worm]

Just one point, some of these issues are down to local byelaws and planning office interpretation.

That's just it, it's a bit of a grey area at the best of times, and gets very grey the smaller the area of trees! Hope for the best but expect the worst and don't potentially waste time and effort, at least at first. Softly softly.

I lived full time in a caravan in a 200-acre wood for a good while when working in said wood. There would have been no question of legitimacy if the matter ever reached officialdom.

At the other end of the scale I bought a lot of self sufficiency/smallholding kit from a couple at a car boot in the summer. They were van dwellers, did the 'buy a bit of land' thing, moved onto said land (a mix of woodland and agricultural) and started accumulating equipment for the good life. A local landowner didn't want them as neighbours, the council decided they were not 'forestry workers' and the couple were ordered off, they refused for a while and were nearly served a court order which would have prevented them setting foot on their own land full stop, and they were trying to challenge a backdated band A council tax bill they had been given for the duration they were there! They ended up desperately offloading their tools and equipment at a car boot sale so they had room in their van to sleep and cook again.

 

[bushcraftlearner83729]

As just mentioned, any structure that is available to be slept in requires planning permission. Shepherds huts and caravans are movable so pass as seasonal abodes when working the woodland, but they should still be moved between seasons or they are thought of as permanent, I too have had the planning people at my place a few times over the years!

So as suggested, keep it quick and cheap. Originally this was a workshop not a bedroom, so I didn't think of that factor

I think I will scrape that idea altogether. No need for it and have a bivvy tent in a pinch if it came to it. I will instead focus on developing the land.

I am thinking a good starter project with wood is make a compost bay. Thinking just ram some stakes into the ground to form a perimeter. Can't get much simpler than that eh?

I know they will rot as well but can just replace as and when right?

You'll not find rodents running over or near your face as you sleep. Like me, they tend to avoid getting too close to humans.

You just described my primary reason for buying land.

For driving posts that are taller than you are, get a post driver. It's a metal tube with a weight at one end and handles on either side; looks like a cyberman's head. if you can lift it a few inches then it will start driving the post in and despite being a short bottom I've driven posts that are much taller than me! As people have said, remove the bark and char the ends and posts last longer but even fresh off the tree hazel bark on and driven into the ground did for my first log store for about 6 years

Well I prefer use self made tools if I can than buy more stuff that will have to be stored and take up space for something that will not likely get much use. The suggestion @Toddy made seems simple. Might not be quite as effective as a bought tool but will take less effective for ready to hand material to make it.

As to species of tree. You need to find out what you have!!!! If you aren't sure, post photos of the trees and the leaves here and some of us will try and help

I discussed it before. Brought camera, didn't bring charger! No, I don't have a smartphone!

Anyway I was looking around closer on the ground a little recently and, between all the long grass and reeds, I think quite a few of the shoots are already willow! I have a better idea now having taken cuttings from my mum's and planted them. Also there seem to be many in my own hedgerow! Look just like these others already growing and very similar to said ones I planted.

They also have grown about a metre above the cut hedgeline, far more than most of the other trees in the hedge so I am guessing that is a good sign. Going to take some cuttings and plant them and see what occurs.

 

[haptalaon]

I really don't mean to put a downer on things. But probably best to keep things quick, simple and easily dismantleable if there is trouble, or make things really well hidden (including from drones these days). Paranoid? No, I've just experienced people's fear of change in a neighborhood.

I've had people come up & give me trouble just for playing with my tarp in the local woods. It's one of those horrible little things, behaviours that are seen as perfectly lovely - parking in an area of natural beauty, having a picnic, sleeping out of doors, napping in your car after a breakdown - if you're a 'nice' person on a holiday it's all OK, vs the level of hostility you experience the moment someone spots you doing the exact same thing if they think you're homeless. It's very cruel.

I'm not super wealthy & I use a cloak instead of a coat & I believe in patching clothes & what nice things i have I certainly don't wear in the great outdoors - I look poor - and one thing I now do when on camping expeditions is actually take a set of 'posh looking tourist' clothes with me, specifically to 'look less homeless' when moving about spaces where other people are. It's total nonsense.

 

[bushcraftlearner83729]

I've had people come up & give me trouble just for playing with my tarp in the local woods. It's one of those horrible little things, behaviours that are seen as perfectly lovely - parking in an area of natural beauty, having a picnic, sleeping out of doors, napping in your car after a breakdown - if you're a 'nice' person on a holiday it's all OK, vs the level of hostility you experience the moment someone spots you doing the exact same thing if they think you're homeless. It's very cruel.

I'm not super wealthy & I use a cloak instead of a coat & I believe in patching clothes & what nice things i have I certainly don't wear in the great outdoors - I look poor - and one thing I now do when on camping expeditions is actually take a set of 'posh looking tourist' clothes with me, specifically to 'look less homeless' when moving about spaces where other people are. It's total nonsense.

I relate to this a lot.

I look like a thief to anyone who is quick to judge. 'Chavvy' clothes. I am not going to wear my bests for walking in some muddy woodland. As I don't dress like a tory out for a shoot in hunting gear they do not like it.

I have been asked what I am up to on several occasions when just walking in the country and also when I was looking for land to by by random local I presume.

I had the bad luck to have driven 4 hours to look at a place and the lady parked in the layby opposide just happened to be the owner and told me in no uncertain terms my type are not welcome to look at her land.

She was like 'you can't just walk on people's land without permission. Well what do you want it for?' 'amenity' 'what do you mean amenity?' I just said 'never mind' and walked off. So had to drive all the way back.

 

[bushcraftlearner83729]

Ok so there is far more willow than I initially thought on the land. Many small shoots dotted around the field and also realized a huge one on the field today which I had been walking past day to day not knowing what it was, must be 6+ metres spread across with no other trees competing with it.

Also bought some purported 'super willow' from a popular seller online. Anyone know how much more fast they grow than 'normal' willow? Or is it a bit of a hype?

It is great to see that really big one and the one in the hedge with is quite sizable too, to see they actually grow into formidable trees.

 

[GreyCat]

I relate to this a lot.

I look like a thief to anyone who is quick to judge. 'Chavvy' clothes. I am not going to wear my bests for walking in some muddy woodland. As I don't dress like a tory out for a shoot in hunting gear they do not like it.

I have been asked what I am up to on several occasions when just walking in the country and also when I was looking for land to by by random local I presume.

I had the bad luck to have driven 4 hours to look at a place and the lady parked in the layby opposide just happened to be the owner and told me in no uncertain terms my type are not welcome to look at her land.

She was like 'you can't just walk on people's land without permission. Well what do you want it for?' 'amenity' 'what do you mean amenity?' I just said 'never mind' and walked off. So had to drive all the way back.

Hmmm, it all depends.....

Thing is, one of the advantages of rural communities is that people who look like they don't belong locally more often get challenged than in the inner city. There's a surprisingly high level of rural crime in some areas, and no doubt there were folk "casing the joint" in the run-up. Other activities such as illegal hare-coursing or even fly-tipping may also attract outsiders with a certain look.....

I neither dress like a "tory out for a shoot" nor "chavvy" there is a happy medium, even tho I don't look particularly conventional. It's human nature to judge by appearance... (and the knife cuts both says.... after all just because someone looks like "a tory out for a shoot" doesn't mean to say they actually are.)

Yes, there are some nasty people out there, although they are a minority. And of course all areas have their troublemakers, if you encounter the Local Git in any place, it won't be much fun. But mostly people see a new face and want to understand what they are up to for positive reasons e.g. making sure it's not someione scouting for the gang who plan to lift all the quad bikes in the area one night.

Do you have a dog? As walking a dog seems to be a good way to get to know folks.

GC

 

[Tengu]

And there are lots of troublemakers.

"Farmer yelled me as I was on his drive. The footpath was alongside but muddy. Why should I trudge in the mud when there is a nice concrete drive?"

(As one person complained).

Me saying maybe he should have used a footpath did not go down well.

"why cant I use a drive? Its a free country, innit?"

-----

And of course in Scotland, I get asked about wild camping (Funny enough by an occupant of a rental campervan, inevitably)

I may tell you but only if I like you and/or are in a good mood.

(Folk of this Parish; please introduce yourselves....)

 

[British Red]

I neither dress like a "tory out for a shoot" nor "chavvy" there is a happy medium, even tho I don't look particularly conventional. It's human nature to judge by appearance... (and the knife cuts both says.... after all just because someone looks like "a tory out for a shoot" doesn't mean to say they actually are.)

Yes, there are some nasty people out there, although they are a minority.

Exactly right. I know almost no-one who dresses in tweeds & breeks for day to day country life - boiler suits, overalls, fleeces, Wellingtons & beanies seem the order of the day.

Mind you like any area, if anyone comes into it with a chip on their shoulder, people won't like it. It's on the newcomer to fit in with the existing neighbourhood, not the other way around - that would be the height of entitlement.

 

[Stew]

She was like 'you can't just walk on people's land without permission. Well what do you want it for?' 'amenity' 'what do you mean amenity?' I just said 'never mind' and walked off. So had to drive all the way back.

I think I would have been puzzled if someone replied with amenity too.

 

[bushcraftlearner83729]

It's on the newcomer to fit in with the existing neighbourhood, not the other way around - that would be the height of entitlement.

At the risk of being inflammatory that could have read just out of the ukip playbook! I am pretty a-political btw just thought it read funny.

 

[bushcraftlearner83729]

I think I would have been puzzled if someone replied with amenity too.

Chicken or the egg. She had already got her heckles up due to my appearance so I was fighting an uphill battle from the get go and that line of questioning with the antagonistic attitude put me of the back foot.

I guess you will also side with her 'if you are on the back foot you had something to hide'.

It is like if you get followed by police or racially profiled. You did nothing wrong but it still elicits negative emotions and maybe less than perfect reactions due to being pressured.

I get that there is a fine line between conscientious person looking out for their community and xenophobe.

I can bet you though that if it was a hippy type of area they would not be so judgemental. There is a way of doing things that can achieve the goal without being rude and alienating.

 

[GreyCat]

At the risk of being inflammatory that could have read just out of the ukip playbook! I am pretty a-political btw just thought it read funny.

You might think of yourself as "a-political" but you don't come across that way- I'm sure you don't realise this, but that's still the impression you give.

Hippy areas are just as judgemental- just they judge different things. For example, someone "dressed as a tory" might not get a very good reception as they would be judged by their clothing......

There's a massive gulf between local people looking out for each other and wanting to keep crime out and the negative "xenophobic" thing you intimate. It's not a fine line at all.

Nor is it a "rural white" thing either- rather it's something that happens if an "outsider" visits any close community. When I was at uni, my best mate (Parents from Indian subcontinent, observant Muslim) not only invited me to her wedding, but also took me around the relevant areas in London in the run-up to it when selecting her wedding jewelry and ooutfits. As we went around, she educated me on the customs and expectations as she did so, even to the level of the different styles of jewelry favoured by different religious groups and the latest fashions in shalwar kameez, the latter was the subject of much discussion as I was haing an outfit made up for the wedding. When we went into some specialist wedding shops, she had to explain in Bengali that I was a "friend" before the initial frost towards me thawed. I'd no issue with that, it was a close community where everyone looked out for each other- and some of the goods in the shops we were visiting were very valuable, and I stood out as very "different" to the usual customer.

Perhaps it's best not to confuse standard human rudeness with politics/tribalism. "Rude" does not equal tory, ukip, xenophobic or any other term relating to a group you seem to disfavour. Rude is just rude, and there's rude and nasty people in all political and cultural groups.

Much less stressful if you dissociate "rude" from "tribe" or "politics," that way different tribes can politely debate and disagree with each other on some issues yet still remain friends, and there's no need to label someone as a particular tribe/political persuasion from the way they come across on your first meeting, for all you know that lady you talk about could in fact have been a very "progressive champagne socialist" in her political views, yet just have been rude!

But then, I'm old enoug to remember and lament the passing of an era when people with different views could gather and discuss/debate in a civilised and respectful fashion yet still remain friends.

GC

 

[Toddy]

I'm a Scot. That matters because it seems we don't see things like the rest of the country does.
Yet we get inundated with cash rich incomers who think that they now "OWN" their land and all that happens upon it.
Not here.
It has never been an offence to be somewhere just for a walk....if you cause no damage, don't intrude on the curtiledge of a demense or disturb farm animals.

One such incomer a bit up the river from us was so incensed that folks could use the river footpath "THROUGH HIS LAND!!!", that he cut down 300 year old oak trees to spoil their view. He was further incensed when he was charged with destoying them but utterly unrepentant that he'd done so for the reason stated.

Most folks would prefer to know those who wander through their land though; that's fair enough. Be civil, say hello, see if there's anything you might do to help ? Peace for all of us.

Hippy friends live in a commune away up the valley; they welcome everyone.
They only get annoyed when a crowd of teenagers who just wanted to drive some place have a big fire and a complete wee up and leave their trash, decided to use their field for it.
I can't blame them; that kind of behaviour just is not acceptable for anyone. Their parents ought to be black affronted that their kids behaved like that.

I know a earl whose family owns an enormous amount of land. He too welcomes people who don't abuse things, happily chatted away to folks. It's healthy. It crosses all boundaries of 'class' or dress (the earl's cashmere cardigans are more patched than a school teacher's tweed jacket )
Dress for the weather, the site, and who cares ?

Quiet rant over

M