Survival in the UK

[John Fenna]

I have not seen that before - a good article!

 

[santaman2000]

hi santaman, you always seem to catch the tetchy brits about to go to bed after a long night! .....

LOL. Sorry about that. Seems a six hour time difference has its quirks.

 

[dwardo]

was it this one?

Thanks for that, my "Google foo" is suffering toddler sleep deprivation at the mo.

 

[CACTUS ELF]

Reading a recent thread, i was surprised at how many people routinely carry knives in the UK ('surprised' is a softer and less contentious word than 'concerned'.) as I've had a Swiss army knife in the lid pocket of my rucksack for about 20 years and i can't recall ever having used it. I go out for the day a lot with no kit and only a couple of cheats - i can freely choose the place and time (not the mountains in winter for example) and pub meals feature a lot in the itinery, but the thread got me thinking - can i manage overnight in the UK with no kit at all?
Anyway, now that spring is (almost) here, i'm going to have a crack at it. Richard Mabey says that 'playing at survival is, i feel, the unacceptable face of foraging, smacking of SAS endurance tests...' but an SAS endurance test is not what i'm looking for - I'm just questioning the need for a rucksack full of gear, not in the UK at least, and then taking it a couple of steps further. You need water, of course, but with a little planning, you can get it in situ and you can manage without hot food for quite a while. These chaps: http://v-g.me.uk/index.htm have something interesting to say about water - "We never treat collected water in any way. Period. We never boil the water either, in fact in the summer months we don't even carry a pan and stove. People worry too much.".
So - any advice that people would like to give? Any pointers? Anybody do this on a regular basis?
Cheers.

easy, search for the thread "survival, no kit" all the answers you need. Happy reading ha ha

 

[bivouac]

easy, search for the thread "survival, no kit" all the answers you need. Happy reading ha ha

Yes, i remember that one & some of the replies you got. In fact, your post kind of got me started on this one. I see you made it out of the forest ok & are still interested in bushcraft. Well done.

 

[lannyman8]

as to the OP, do it, try your night or days and nights out with out any kit, but take a back up kit with you, just to make sure if all goes wrong you can ad-least be safe...

a day sack with a sleeping bag and bivi bag, quick boil stove, pot, water and high carb quick release and slow release foods, some warm clothes as a back up just to be sure.

I know a mate who was mountain biking in Scotland in cold weather, but not so bad, just a day trip, good job he knows his stuff because he took the basic back up kit, warm clothes sleeping bag and stove, he started to get hypothermia, and quick, thinking he would be able to push through a higher section, he could not, got cold and into trouble. he told me the only thing that saved him was knowing he was in the poop and his jet boil, he heated water and got it down him, he kept doing this to warm up while in his sleeping bag and bivi bag, he managed to sort him self out and went down the next morning feeling rather pants...

things can change very quickly, unless you have what you need there and then it can be very dangerous...

so go and do your worst but ALWAYS have a back up, and dont just rely on a phone call, take what you might need enjoy and keep safe....

regards.

chris.

 

[11binf]

as to the OP, do it, try your night or days and nights out with out any kit, but take a back up kit with you, just to make sure if all goes wrong you can ad-least be safe...

a day sack with a sleeping bag and bivi bag, quick boil stove, pot, water and high carb quick release and slow release foods, some warm clothes as a back up just to be sure.

I know a mate who was mountain biking in Scotland in cold weather, but not so bad, just a day trip, good job he knows his stuff because he took the basic back up kit, warm clothes sleeping bag and stove, he started to get hypothermia, and quick, thinking he would be able to push through a higher section, he could not, got cold and into trouble. he told me the only thing that saved him was knowing he was in the poop and his jet boil, he heated water and got it down him, he kept doing this to warm up while in his sleeping bag and bivi bag, he managed to sort him self out and went down the next morning feeling rather pants...

things can change very quickly, unless you have what you need there and then it can be very dangerous...

so go and do your worst but ALWAYS have a back up, and dont just rely on a phone call, take what you might need enjoy and keep safe....

regards.

chris.

what Lanny said ! just because something bad has'nt happened to you yet does'nt mean it won't happen ! have a backup plan and kit...vince g. 11B INF...

 

[knifefan]

Having read this thread a couple of times now, I still can't understand what you hope to gain by having a "night" out without any kit?? You state that you are not after an "endurance test" Surely the only thing you will learn is how to have an uncomfortable night out !! I would suggest that you would be better off taking a few nights out with minimal kit and practice your skills.

 

[rg598]

Like most people in this thread I am also a bit confused about what is actually being asked in the OP.

If the question is whether one can survive a night in the woods in the UK (not in winter and not in the highlands), then as others have pointed out, you would have to work hard NOT to survive. As has been pointed out however, you will be uncomfortable and limited in what you can do for those two days (have to stay close to water sources, possible shelter locations, etc.)

If the question is whether we really need a backpack full of gear to spend the night in the woods, as pointed out above, the answer is clearly "no". You don't even need a full rucksack to be comfortable on an overnight trip. However I think there is a very wide area between zero gear and a 100L pack full of gear. Most people who go out into the woods and travel over distance, have found the weight that works for them. It is a balancing act between comfort, having the capability to do things (carrying sufficient water storage capacity so that you can go into areas where there will not be water sources for a long distance, or having water filtration equipment so that you can utilize available, but less than ideal water sources, etc), and the weight that you have to carry. Surely, a 50 kg pack is absurd, but would a 2kg pack bother you? What if the tools in that 2kg pack allowed you to stay out in the woods twice as long and go twice as far?

I think there is a certain assumption of inevitability, that if you bring one piece of gear, soon you will be driving an RV into the woods. I don't see any reason for that. Certainly we are rational beings, and can apply a certain degree of self control. Most backpackers manage to do it just fine.

 

[mrcharly]

.... would literally sleep under hedges when doing a mammoth cycle ride to visit girlfriends, eg London to Westward Ho!

These days people prefer bus shelters. I know a number of people who do this on a very regular basis (but not to visit girlfriends, just for the sake of getting in a long cycle ride).

 

[bivouac]

I thought it was straightforward, if perhaps a little badly worded. It's something that i've thought about now and then (usually when i've got money troubles) - how long would i last & how far would i get if i walked off with nothing in my pockets? The replies were interesting, but to be honest i feel a bit of a berk, not because someone finds me pitiful, but because what for me is a bit of interest hunched over the laptop in the comfort of my living room, for some others is a real-life situation that they have no choice but to live through and my ramblings pale into insignificance beside them.

 

[knifefan]

Members on here and other similar forums engage in "Bushcraft" for many various reasons. My own interest stems from learning and practicing skills that would help me feel confident in such a survival situation. I suppose the only reasonable way to put these skills into practice would be to do something like the forces escape & evasion exercise over a couple of days. But lets not forget that such exercises are well monitored with a large support team, and I would not consider deliberately putting myself in such a situation.
Trim your kit down to an acceptable level for you and go out there and enjoy it. The skills you learn will come into play at some stage. Should you loose or damage your stove - you will have learnt at least a couple of methods of making a fire... If you lost a water bottle you will have learnt how to source and treat water..... If your tarp or tent gets damaged you will have learnt how to make various shelters....... Use your skills when you need them, but don't deliberately put your self in harms way

 

[bivouac]

Members on here and other similar forums engage in "Bushcraft" for many various reasons. My own interest stems from learning and practicing skills that would help me feel confident in such a survival situation. I suppose the only reasonable way to put these skills into practice would be to do something like the forces escape & evasion exercise over a couple of days. But lets not forget that such exercises are well monitored with a large support team, and I would not consider deliberately putting myself in such a situation.
Trim your kit down to an acceptable level for you and go out there and enjoy it. The skills you learn will come into play at some stage. Should you loose or damage your stove - you will have learnt at least a couple of methods of making a fire... If you lost a water bottle you will have learnt how to source and treat water..... If your tarp or tent gets damaged you will have learnt how to make various shelters....... Use your skills when you need them, but don't deliberately put your self in harms way

That's a neat summary of all the sensible advice i've had so far & i shall follow it - especially the bit about enjoying myself. Many thanks.

 

[knifefan]

That's a neat summary of all the sensible advice i've had so far & i shall follow it - especially the bit about enjoying myself. Many thanks.

That's the key "enjoy yourself"!!!! It's no fun being cold, wet, hungry and thirsty Yes, we could all probably survive a night out and It would be far from pleasant!! There was a budding documentary maker who died recently by being homeless for a week to experience what it would be like!! It's believed that he died of hypothermia whilst sleeping in an abandoned building!!!!!! Good luck and keep us updated with you ventures - it's always worth looking for meet-up's near to you, that way you can try what you like but have the benefit of like minded souls being around you - always a mine of knowledge and advice, not to mention the "banter" !!!!

 

[rg598]

This is not exactly what you were talking about, but it's along the same lines: http://woodtrekker.blogspot.com/2013/04/trip-report-wilderness-survival.html

 

[Corso]

This is not exactly what you were talking about, but it's along the same lines: http://woodtrekker.blogspot.com/2013/04/trip-report-wilderness-survival.html

Good work - theres been a number of compst of 5-10 items or less challenges over the years that have demonstrated some interesting view points

 

[rik_uk3]

Great blog as usual Roger, a fine example of common sense on display nice one.

 

[demographic]

Someone like Red whose a keen gardener/small holder will use a knife and if the rest of us carry one you'll tend to 'find' a need to use it, the majority don't actually 'need' a knife.

The group talking about not treating water made it plain they were talking about remote mountainous UK regions and to be honest I'd not overly worry in certain areas either but with water filter bottles so cheap why take the risk?

I carried a knife pretty much all the time I wasn't at school when I lived on our farm and whenever I went out lamping for rabbits but nowadays the knife I carry for the most hours per week is a Stanley knife which lives in my tool belt when I'm at work.
Disposable blades mean I don't have to faff about sharpening it after I've cut plasterboard, I just chuck the blade and clip in another.
I also have a fairly vast array of chisels, planes, saws, yada yada yada so I don't have to compromise too much.
A chisel works quite well as a chisel, I have loads of them and a knife isn't a very good chisel at all in my experience.

When I go camping I carry a knife just cos its one tool that does a lot of jobs but just for going for a walk? I don't feel like I need to carry a knife then.

I still like knives and have quite a few, but as I have a lot of Right Tools for the Job I don't really have what some people call an "every day carry".

<shrugs>

 

[lannyman8]

well to test your self (but with all the safety kit as back up) you could do a 5 items thing or use a bit more kit as in these 2 threads...

http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=74225&highlight=5+items

http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=89191&highlight=5+items

they should get you started on your way to enlightenment....

regards.

chris.

 

[Fallschirmwomble]

<snip>

...So - any advice that people would like to give? Any pointers? Anybody do this on a regular basis?
Cheers.

I don't understand the purpose and don't know your intended environment.

I think there'd be no shortage of readers who've slept out after (eg) getting stranded after a night out. Speaking from too many experiences of missing last/connecting trains, etc, I'd recommend a warm coat and hat. Try to find yourself some reading material 'cause sleep might be impossible - or undesirable (personal security-wise)! The paper obviously can be used for numerous alternative purposes.

Last time this happened to me, I was stuck at Guildford enroute to Aldershot. Awaiting pick-up which never arrived. No money for a cab.

Oh yeah, having cash for contingencies helps!

Incidentally:

These chaps: http://v-g.me.uk/index.htm have something interesting to say about water - "We never treat collected water in any way. Period. We never boil the water either, in fact in the summer months we don't even carry a pan and stove. People worry too much."

In many remote places, this might be okay. I'd say it'd be very foolish to follow this idea literally at the vast majority of places in the UK.