Survival in the UK
- Thread starter bivouac
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N
Nomad
Guest
I work in Retail and IT. I don't "need" to carry a knife. But I do find it very useful to have one on my person.
Daily usage can include:
Opening boxes
Screwdriver blade on the knife to undo screws. or As a small prybar
Stripping insulation.
Cutting cable ties
Peeling my apple, coring my apple.
And simply as I've always had a pocket knife in my pocket since I was 8 and don't intend to change that now
So No I don't need to have one but, its a very useful tool to have. And to be honest why shouldn't I.
It's pretty clear you want to see how you get on sleeping outside without kit, taking it right back to the bare minimum - to test yourself? Maybe to 're-boot' and take stock of what's really needed and what's just excess guff? Everyone feels differently about what's essential, kit wise. You have a knife in your kit but have never really had cause to use it. Perhaps this is because you've carried the kit that would otherwise need to be sourced from the wild, or headed home/to the pub before needing to improvise a bed, light a fire to keep warm etc. You'll only really know what's essential if you try it.
But...you would have to be crazy (or have no other choice) to do this without being prepared to get yourself out of a pickle should a pickle occur.
Why not try it as a controlled experiment (have a sleeping bag, stove, metal pot, water and food in a bag within reach - let someone else know what you're up to). You'll soon know what's possible and what amounts to fanciful romantics.
Having spent many a night outdoors with and without kit at all times of the year, I know that I could muddle on through until the morning but depending on the weather and my condition, this wouldn't be a pleasurable or particularly restful experience. From experience I also know that with the addition of the right clothing, a small cutting tool and a metal pot my situation can be improved dramatically (assuming you have the knowledge to use these essential items effectively). In the right location and with enough time set aside I could be comfortable by nightfall so these three essential bits of kit would be my bare minimum (proper clothing, cutting tool, metal pot) as all three are extremely difficult to improvise from the wild. Possible, but difficult, location dependant and time consuming. The addition of a fire steel, large heavy gauge transparent plastic bag and a staple carbohydrate ration would improve my situation immeasurably, speeding up my preparation time before nightfall and decreasing my workload. These items could all fit in the metal pot. For safety I would take a pocket first aid kit (concentrating on stopping bleeding mainly - a sensible precaution if using sharp tools when tired and hungry), a small torch and a reliable method of communication to contact help if needed. So...we're talking mainly pocketable items, a weatherproof and warm set of clothing and a small cooking pot. That seems like a safer and more sensible adventure than just curling up in a hedge.
Would love to hear how you get on
Cheers
Joe
But...you would have to be crazy (or have no other choice) to do this without being prepared to get yourself out of a pickle should a pickle occur.
Why not try it as a controlled experiment (have a sleeping bag, stove, metal pot, water and food in a bag within reach - let someone else know what you're up to). You'll soon know what's possible and what amounts to fanciful romantics.
Having spent many a night outdoors with and without kit at all times of the year, I know that I could muddle on through until the morning but depending on the weather and my condition, this wouldn't be a pleasurable or particularly restful experience. From experience I also know that with the addition of the right clothing, a small cutting tool and a metal pot my situation can be improved dramatically (assuming you have the knowledge to use these essential items effectively). In the right location and with enough time set aside I could be comfortable by nightfall so these three essential bits of kit would be my bare minimum (proper clothing, cutting tool, metal pot) as all three are extremely difficult to improvise from the wild. Possible, but difficult, location dependant and time consuming. The addition of a fire steel, large heavy gauge transparent plastic bag and a staple carbohydrate ration would improve my situation immeasurably, speeding up my preparation time before nightfall and decreasing my workload. These items could all fit in the metal pot. For safety I would take a pocket first aid kit (concentrating on stopping bleeding mainly - a sensible precaution if using sharp tools when tired and hungry), a small torch and a reliable method of communication to contact help if needed. So...we're talking mainly pocketable items, a weatherproof and warm set of clothing and a small cooking pot. That seems like a safer and more sensible adventure than just curling up in a hedge.
Would love to hear how you get on
Cheers
Joe
I have to say I feel huge sympathy for someone that has never had a need for a swiss army knife in 20 years - never needed to tie up a leader, cut a graft, prune a plant, pare a piece of wood, remove a splinter, cut some wood shavings to start a fire, cut away a bad bit of fruit fresh from a tree, trim the roots from a fresh onion, share a lump of cheese. What a horrible plastic world to live in where everything comes pre-cut and sanitised - I truly pity the OP 
And in the same light even the ultralite backpacker bregade see the value in having a cutting tool - its often something tiny and in my mind less than practical but the UL kitlists I've seen people post up still have one
And he went into the mountains just as winter was closing in which i do not intend to do.
I checked out your website by the way. Thanks for the link & taking the time & trouble to reply.
You're still not getting the point.
I truly pity the OP
Please don't feel pity on my account old chap. There are plenty of people more deserving of your pity than i.
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Despite my sterling efforts, this has turned into a post about knives and what's more it's getting a little personal. Thanks for all your replies.
Cheers.
Cheers.
Any fool can be uncomfortable - some by carrying too much - some by carrying too little for their needs. A knife is a tool for making things or adapting things (ie cutting up food) nothing more. If you are eating in a pub then the knifework has been done by the chef for you if you need to clear paths on your walk a knife is very handy. A stroll to the pub really requires no gear. A foraging trip in the woods would benefit from having a tool to make the appropriate tools on site, as it were. Primitive man had skills that we lack and so we make up for them in gear.
maybe because your first post is quite confusing? You started the thread talking about knives and wonder why its about knives.
If you want to go out without one good for you but why start the thread? You could go out without any of the usual tools people discuss on here but why seek support/interest from people on here?
I could go out without a knife, a torch, a lighter, first aid kit, water bottle/canteen , fire kit, map and compass but I choose not to.
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One part is 'collecting stoves' like some folk collect stamps, when camping there are only three or four I pick from usually to use on a trip depending on my planned menu and how many I'm feeding
You don't have to take all you own on a trip, like the water filter bottle, just take that if all you want is water, take other kit if you want a hot drink.
Why, thank you. By the same token, any fool can carry a knife.
Interesting point. Do you think that these skills are lost? Or do we carry them around somewhere in the back of our minds as it were? After all, we've only become dependant on tools and technology relatively recently in our history as a species.
N
Nomad
Guest
"Reading a recent thread, i was surprised at how many people routinely carry knives in the UK ('surprised' is a softer and less contentious word than 'concerned'.) as I've had a Swiss army knife in the lid pocket of my rucksack for about 20 years and i can't recall ever having used it."
Maybe not, but your introductory remark quoted above seems rather odd. Why should you be concerned about the fact that others carry a knife? You appear to be insinuating that, if you don't, nobody else has a need to. Either way, what relevance has this to the thrust of your original post?
N
Nomad
Guest
but why with such hostility? - a knife is just a tool just like a torch, a lighter, a firesteel, a water bottle, a first aid kit who cares if someone carries something or not?
besides this thread isn't even about bushcraft without a cutting tool its about going for a walk without one - you hardly need advice about that surely?
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I sit here writing replies to threads such as these, then re-read, decide my point can be easily misconstrued in this format and delete without posting.
I wonder if the OP has maybe been unintentionally inflammatory with regards knife carry/use? I'd be very surprised if he actually believes that just because the situations he exposes himself to don't require the use of a bladed tool, that he's suggesting that others shouldn't require one? After all, we only expose ourselves (sensibly) to situations we are equipped for physically, mentally and practically (i.e Kit) for?
I carry at least two knives when I go out and about. If it ends up that I only use one for 10 minutes of the trip then that was an easy trip and I'm happy. A big part of getting outside for me is challenging myself both mentally and physically to make it as comfortable an experience as possible.
As for going out with no kit, no clean water etc I personally don't fantasise about 'surviving adversity' or seeing what my body can withstand. I'd save that for the Discovery Channel where they have full support crews and I certainly wouldn't want to over stretch our already limited emergency services with the results of an experiment gone wrong.....?
That said, I can't even remember the amount of times I'd fall asleep on benches in the middle of winter, completely inebriated, with only jeans and a short sleeve shirt. I was always fine, but what does it prove? I'm glad I grew out of that some 20 years ago.
Ok, I'm probably rambling now (the Mrs is watching rubbish on TV). For the first time I'll post and not delete and see what happens
I wonder if the OP has maybe been unintentionally inflammatory with regards knife carry/use? I'd be very surprised if he actually believes that just because the situations he exposes himself to don't require the use of a bladed tool, that he's suggesting that others shouldn't require one? After all, we only expose ourselves (sensibly) to situations we are equipped for physically, mentally and practically (i.e Kit) for?
I carry at least two knives when I go out and about. If it ends up that I only use one for 10 minutes of the trip then that was an easy trip and I'm happy. A big part of getting outside for me is challenging myself both mentally and physically to make it as comfortable an experience as possible.
As for going out with no kit, no clean water etc I personally don't fantasise about 'surviving adversity' or seeing what my body can withstand. I'd save that for the Discovery Channel where they have full support crews and I certainly wouldn't want to over stretch our already limited emergency services with the results of an experiment gone wrong.....?
That said, I can't even remember the amount of times I'd fall asleep on benches in the middle of winter, completely inebriated, with only jeans and a short sleeve shirt. I was always fine, but what does it prove? I'm glad I grew out of that some 20 years ago.
Ok, I'm probably rambling now (the Mrs is watching rubbish on TV). For the first time I'll post and not delete and see what happens
