Ye but it also requires lyme or other such things I don't have on the land doesn't it? I read that as one of the 3 essential parts.
Make a shed from wood in woodland or buy cheap wooden one?
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That lean-to looks like it would be miserable in rain or drizzle. wouldn't take much breeze from the wrong direction to blow wet onto your kit.
I am also curious about what smoke from a fire will do when surrounded by a wall like that. Typically a lean-to is recommended to be parallel to the wind so smoke is neither blown in, nor sucked in by an eddy. With a wall like that I would imagine the wind will billow around and could blow smoke in from any direction. Has anyone used one and know the truth of the matter?
I am also curious about what smoke from a fire will do when surrounded by a wall like that. Typically a lean-to is recommended to be parallel to the wind so smoke is neither blown in, nor sucked in by an eddy. With a wall like that I would imagine the wind will billow around and could blow smoke in from any direction. Has anyone used one and know the truth of the matter?
I use steel ammo boxes to keep things out of rodent munching. My beds were foam army mattresses straight onto the floor but I would lean them up against the posts when not in use to keep things from chewing or nesting in them.
The shelter in that woodlands UK link is basically a very complicated and large bender type shelter. Good luck with that!
The curtain wall with a lean too looks awful. Like Chris says, it would just let the wind and rain in and unless there is absolutely NO wind at all any smoke is going to swirl around making you even more miserable. Log cabins have stacked poles like those walls but they have to have joints in the corners so they don't fall over. That thing is a circle of fences, if you put a roof on it they would collapse.
Cob doesn't need lime. Cob is mud and a binder like straw and dung. Lime is used to paint the walls with, making them waterproof. Mud huts or cob building that don't have lime render exist, they just have wide overhangs on the roof to keep the rain off
The shelter in that woodlands UK link is basically a very complicated and large bender type shelter. Good luck with that!
The curtain wall with a lean too looks awful. Like Chris says, it would just let the wind and rain in and unless there is absolutely NO wind at all any smoke is going to swirl around making you even more miserable. Log cabins have stacked poles like those walls but they have to have joints in the corners so they don't fall over. That thing is a circle of fences, if you put a roof on it they would collapse.
Cob doesn't need lime. Cob is mud and a binder like straw and dung. Lime is used to paint the walls with, making them waterproof. Mud huts or cob building that don't have lime render exist, they just have wide overhangs on the roof to keep the rain off
Well I did say I didn't want to do the design like that one just showing the example of the stacked walls.
I know about he notching technique for big log cabins but since mine aren't that thick I was thinking I could make them with the upright method still. Maybe 6ft high or so. Like this idea of a solid wall of wood somehow over a tarp. I feel it will give more protection and shelter.
Maybe a wiry framed one for the workspace with tarp thrown over and wood stacking for better shelter from the elements.
I saw more simple ones in the sas survival guide and he gives other designs for more permanent structures and notes you just do the same as the squat ones just taller.
Any designs you can point me to where the frame is timber and the walls cob? You still have to weave sticks all in between for the walls even if doing cob don't you as otherwise they won't have anything to stick to? So pretty much the same as your pictures then use cob instead of a tarp.
I don't have straw, but lots of long, live grass, would that do? Lots of mud too of course!
Almost Cob/daub/clay lump/adobe is clay rich subsoil and straw. Dung optional. Often only present in historic mixes as clay and straw were penned in with livestock so hoof pressure did the heavy work of mixing.
There needs to be sufficient clay content in the subsoil to bind the mix together. There are simple tests you can do to determine this.
It's time and labour intensive work, probably not the best option for something which may be not be permanent.
I would start with a bender which would be easy and cheap. The wood you have and the tarps can be re used.
Clay wise. Get some sub soil, soak in water, take a handful and give a big squeeze.
Does it stick? Would it make nice mud pies?
This is where a geology map would be handy. Fortunately the British Geological Survey has one online.
But there may be clay in the stream
Clay wise. Get some sub soil, soak in water, take a handful and give a big squeeze.
Does it stick? Would it make nice mud pies?
This is where a geology map would be handy. Fortunately the British Geological Survey has one online.
But there may be clay in the stream
Well the dual support and stack between method seems the simplest I have seen so far.
I already know i have clay as there are some considerable deposits where the stream exits the ground.
I dug a couple of bucket's worth already while channeling the water.
I am not sure how much is required for making a whole structure. I presumed it would taking like half a tonne or something. Given the amount people said how one can underestimate the wood that it takes I thought clay may be the same.
I live in Devon, where most structures over 80 years old are cob. I've also helped build iron age round houses as well as wattle and daub structures (I'm an experimental archaeologist by training), so yes, I'm aware of the need for clay
You could make turf dwarf walls and hurdle up from that into a bender ?
Lot of physical work though, but they'll last like earthen bricks for years until they compost down.
Lot of physical work though, but they'll last like earthen bricks for years until they compost down.
half a tonne would maybe build a kennel, not a 10x10 workshop! If it's stand alone cob without a timber frame I'm guessing something like 5 maybe 10 tonnes. Around my way the houses are built from cob and even a garage sized shed has walls of over two feet in thickness
If it's a timber frame with a wattle and daub infill (that's the woven slats, that can be small diameter rods, split larger rods or laths that are split flat pieces from oak or ash normally), then you might get away with under a tonne of clay but the frame would need to be sturdy. Most bushrafters think about daub bottom a smearing of clay/mud over the woven structure, which works fine for temporary structures but soon flakes off as it dries
Depending on good vehicular then wheelbarrow, footpath access. Cost vs time i think id go cheap shed then re engineer. Concrete 4" blocks, conrete not airated as flat levelled pads @ 18" centres, 4x2 tanalised joists @18" centres going the opposite way to shed base joists, short noggins in-between @900 centres to stop twisting and forming a grid. Vapour barrier of minimum 1000g polythene, 18mm ply on top. Insulate between joists of shed base then place over ply. Erect shed, polythene over roof before fixing supplied felt. Cover felt with epdm rubber roof completing 3 layers of protection. Treated feather edge fencing lenghts to close gap between shed ang ground to disuade visitors. Inside put 3x2 or 4x2 untreated timbers alongside the shed uprights and noggins inbetween. Repeat to roof and increase the amount of roof joists. Insulate and overboard with 6mm ply. Use screws for all the construction to enable easy removal if necessary or mistakes made. Prep most of the timber off site to lessen cordless tool useage unless you have a genny. This should give you a cozy all season retreat from the elements for at least 20yrs. If you don't own trade quality tools buy/borrow or even better ask someone who has to assist you and advise where necessary as there is more than one way to skin a cat, this is mine. Whatever you decide, good luck in your endeavour.......not jealous at all ;-)
A small yurt, if no snow it can be very light weight, probably have to tie it down to prevent wind blowover. Can be done with just plastic cover or tarpaulin or what ever.
I live in Devon, where most structures over 80 years old are cob. I've also helped build iron age round houses as well as wattle and daub structures (I'm an experimental archaeologist by training), so yes, I'm aware of the need for clay
Then I'd at least expect you to get you terminology correct "Mud"? Mud is deadly technical stuff, and plenty of regions have the wrong kind of it.
Here in East Anglia there is plenty of wattle and daub and clay lump farm buildings were still winter work for labourers before the Great War.
My house (a derelict restoration project) is a 17thC timber frame with wattle and daub infill. The upper floor was added in early Victorian times and the ceilings are plastered with a clay/straw mix! A time when labour was cheap and manufactured materials costly in contrast.
I worked with the owner on an early C16th farmhouse a few years back. It was damaged in the '87 gales and patched up with breeze blocks. We removed these and made over 92 new wattle and daub panels, manually treading the mixture. Around nine tons in total... Then a rush to add lime render to the panels before winter, and lime plaster indoors once it got cold. Nearly two years work with the sole plate repairs too.
Do you have any picture examples?
Oh that reminds me of another idea I had a while ago. Why not just build into the ground to make a bunker? Then the walls and insulation are done for you.
I read up on that and some of the prepper/survivalist shelters noted basing designs on old root cellars.
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Well exactly my point. I looked into it and seemed like it would demand too much clay than I have to hand. I would sooner be able to make a structure of all wood than clay.
A detailed plan thanks.
I am more keen on manual tools only however. I am also finding the history aspect of it very interesting too. Reading up on how things used to be done, get ideas, then try with limited hand tools.
I think that would be largely lost with power tools. That is only one reason though. Another is no AC electrical supply and don't want one. Part of the enjoyment is using one's hands and being close to the materials I am using.
Yes I am reading up again and while the clay is not in some 'recipes' clay seems to be in them all that I can recall seeing.
I don't want some foreign thing I have to bring in, or at least not that would have to make up the majority of the substance of the build.
Seems with enough ingenuity I can rustle something up with what I have here already, not with cob though I guess.
What is wrong with just using plain mud mixed with long grass? As long as ample eaves are overhanging will that work?
Timber frame and infill with twigs then mud and grass to pad out the walls. Roof maybe wood again.
I have quite a bit of thin wood just not hefty logs for a full on log cabin. So I could get enough largish ones for a sturdy frame I reckon, maybe roof too, but then probably want other stuff for the walls.
Yeah.....that always sounds a good idea....if you live somewhere dry.
Otherwise you're just digging out a sump....and it will fill with water and it will sit damp and cold.
Site, always the site. That's crucial.
In the past our ancestors would look for a south facing slope, and then they'd dig into it. They'd create a platform, usually oval, that used the back of the hill as one side, but the front they faced up with whatever was available.....and faced south so that it always got the best of the warmth and light.
I too was an archaeologist (lot of us on here
) and I have fieldwalked a heck of a lot of hillsides and found an awful lot of old round house platforms 
Again though, it's site dependant. Don't try it on a sodden wet hill 'cos you'lll just end up with a burn running through your house when it rains, sort of thing.
Turf houses are again traditional, but they are a lot of work, but if all you have is soil, then that's what you use.
You have options, but you're kind of confusing us a bit because at first you want it to be moved if necessary, then you suggest stuff that's really substantial....and expensive either in materials or £££ or enormous labour.
Honestly, try a bender. Give it a go, see how you get on. They're pretty good floored with pallets, and if you use old ammo boxes or the like then you'll not have issues with rodents....that you have already primed to come look around your camp for free food....
i think you’re right with the bender. Looking at what Dave has made before, one that style would be done before Monday…..Yeah.....that always sounds a good idea....if you live somewhere dry.
Otherwise you're just digging out a sump....and it will fill with water and it will sit damp and cold.
Site, always the site. That's crucial.
In the past our ancestors would look for a south facing slope, and then they'd dig into it. They'd create a platform, usually oval, that used the back of the hill as one side, but the front they faced up with whatever was available.....and faced south so that it always got the best of the warmth and light.
I too was an archaeologist (lot of us on here
Again though, it's site dependant. Don't try it on a sodden wet hill 'cos you'lll just end up with a burn running through your house when it rains, sort of thing.
Turf houses are again traditional, but they are a lot of work, but if all you have is soil, then that's what you use.
You have options, but you're kind of confusing us a bit because at first you want it to be moved if necessary, then you suggest stuff that's really substantial....and expensive either in materials or £££ or enormous labour.
Honestly, try a bender. Give it a go, see how you get on. They're pretty good floored with pallets, and if you use old ammo boxes or the like then you'll not have issues with rodents....that you have already primed to come look around your camp for free food....
Yep, a bender. Maybe not the most stylish, but cheap, simple, movable and will get you started.
That or an old canvas frame tent.
That or an old canvas frame tent.
