Knife Commission

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Siberianfury

Native
Jan 1, 1970
1,534
6
mendip hills, somerset
Yes, it's nonesense. You dont know what you're talking about. Sorry.

well how exactly does this "ABS Mastersmith" make the patern then?

where you there when he made the knife?

I have been their first hand at the process of patern welding and helped alongside the smith, If he cuts it from a billet its relativley simple. i can tell he hasnt forged it into much of a shape as he could have, as the grain of the pattern is off, suggesting stock removal of the workpeice.

All hes doing is one peice pater welding, cutting grooves to produce a specific patern, its not magical.

just because of my age doesnt mean i dont know what im talking about.
 
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HillBill

Bushcrafter through and through
Oct 1, 2008
8,141
88
W. Yorkshire
HillBill, how many hours work do you think is reasonable to go into making a knife like this...

Fisk_SoWest01-wz-%235_04.jpg


Just curious?

If you have everything set up and all the equipment at hand, you can knock out a jig-ground, flatstock woodlore type thing in your lunchbreak, if you are not too fussy about the finish, but to suggest that all knives can or should be made to the same time frame is ridiculous.

I'm not saying all knives take the same time to make, As to the example you posted, i couldnt even guess how long was put into it, I openly admit to having not been doing this too long, You have seen the knives i make, I havent ventured into anything further yet so i dont know how many hours goes into it.

But what does it sell for? I'd guess at 10 times the price i sell a knife for. If it took 10 times longer to make that, than the ones i make, then i would make 10 knives to his one. I would earn the same, take 10 customers off my list to his one, and not have a waiting list yet he would. Obviously he is a more skilled maker than i am, But that doesnt mean my knives or any other makers knives are not good quality in the bracket that they fall. :)
 
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Dave Budd

Gold Trader
Staff member
Jan 8, 2006
2,895
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Dartmoor (Devon)
www.davebudd.com
just a quick 2p worth, I don't want to upset anybody or get into slangin matches (life's too short).

a maker who is popular will have a waiting list. how long that list is will depend on how popular he/she is and how long each knife takes to make. if you make piece rate for bulk, then you will make a lot and they will either not be of the best quality or they will not be of the highest finish. For example (not a knife granted) Robin Wood turns bowls fast and makes them in numbers that mean he can keep the cost down for his general work-a-day bowls. They are extremely well made and well finished straight off the blade But when he wants to make something a little more refined, such as a silver inlaid mazer (sp?) that is sanded smooth, then it will take longer and so he has to charge more (he will also not be able to make lots of the lower value bowls during that time so has to offset that loss of earnings).

I can make a knife in half an hour from scratch (do a search on BB for a 30 minute knife), but it's not as good or as well finished as one that I take my time over, even if it is no more elaborate. Also certain things just take time/ good glues take 12-24 hours to set, the heat treating can take 5 hours (assuming you don't anneal, in which case add another day), leather dye takes time to dry, wet forgmed sheaths take time to dry, etc, etc. If a knife has say 15 hours of Actual working time in it (ie cutting, drilling, filing, polishing, forging, etc), it will have three or five times that it preparations, setting times, tempering, etc. How much do you think a skilled craftsman should be paid per hour? I can tell you that none of us are on much more than minimum wage once those times are taken into it!

I also made a scandi ground woodlore cloney thing once (only once and under duress from a friend). It took me longer to make the sheath than it did the rest of the knife. I didn't enjoy making it and though I could make them fast and sell them and not incur a long wait (product runs cut time down), I wouldn't or I would go mad and burn out in a lot less time than my waiting list is!

I've a waiting list and that's not because I am taking my sweet time over things to make me feel/look more popular. It's because things take time to work through and there is more to being a professional knifemaker than just making commissions. I have to spend time going to shows, time making pieces to take to the shows, time for R&D (such as improving heat treating regimes to imrove the quality of my work), time scrapping failures and starting over, time sourcing tools and materials, in my case also time teaching, time advertising, time doing all the admin that comes with self employment, etc. If I ONLY worked on commissions then I could maybe cut my waiting list down to half the time, but I would have no stock for anybody who wants a knife now and not in X months, etc. I remember Mik Wardell telling me that he once had such a good commission with a long waitng list as a result that he stopped doing shows and making knives on spec, it nearly killed him and his business. He was burning out and not getting the future work by being caught up in the moment.
 

Tony

White bear (Admin)
Admin
Apr 16, 2003
24,170
1
1,923
53
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www.bushcraftuk.com
k, this is one of those times where sticking to the subject IS important as it's a personal request for info from someone, feel free to start another thread so that you can all continue to discuss the in's and out's of knife making.
 

durulz

Need to contact Admin...
Jun 9, 2008
1,755
1
Elsewhere
k, this is one of those times where sticking to the subject IS important as it's a personal request for info from someone, feel free to start another thread so that you can all continue to discuss the in's and out's of knife making.

Exactly.
In fact, if you (or one of the moderators) could kindly either delete or place elsewhere posts not directly relevant to my initial request I'd appreciate that.
Cheers.
 

durulz

Need to contact Admin...
Jun 9, 2008
1,755
1
Elsewhere
OK all.
Been communicating with a maker whose work I've seen and heard good comments from others about, so now negotiating with him over design etc.
Thanks everyone for your advice - it was kindly appreciated (even if slightly miffed at it getting slightly hijacked).
In February I'll post pictures of what I'm sure will be an fantastic item.
Cheers again.
 

Ropeman

Forager
Apr 16, 2005
134
0
55
Aberdeen
depends, is that a hand patern welded blade or from a bit of sheet steel?
is the Guard cast or forged?
what tools did he have (another factor that makes work quicker and more efficiant)

ive done a bit of work in a forge with a custom swordsmith, and if things go well may be doing so full time. apart from swords, He makes very similar knives to the one in your picture, using traditional methods, no sheet steel or casts.
he can forge 8 patern welded blades similar to that in a day, if it where stock removal it would be more like 20.

id say that a pro with the correct tools could easily knock 4 of those knives up in a day (minus the etching and fileing) based on what i have learnt working with a bloke who does it for a living.

one of the tricks of the trade that knife makers do and have done throughout the ages is claiming its harder than it realy is, for example they could say "my knives are the sharpest because i use this special HT method" or have a 6 month waiting list " because they are so sought after", its all marketing gimmiks to lure customers in and make them feel as they are buying an extraordinary product when all it is a sharp tool for cutting.

its not at all hard to make a good knife once you have the hang of it and the right tools.
it doesnt make any difference if you have a 6 month waiting list or not and the ones that dont are the more honest of craftsmen IMO.

The word 'astonishing' doesn't even begin to to cover it. :lmao:

Would that I had been born with half your knowledge.
 
well how exactly does this "ABS Mastersmith" make the patern then?

where you there when he made the knife?

I have been their first hand at the process of patern welding and helped alongside the smith, If he cuts it from a billet its relativley simple. i can tell he hasnt forged it into much of a shape as he could have, as the grain of the pattern is off, suggesting stock removal of the workpeice.

All hes doing is one peice pater welding, cutting grooves to produce a specific patern, its not magical.

just because of my age doesnt mean i dont know what im talking about.


Amazing! Is there no beginning to your talent and tact? :rolleyes:
 

Smudge

Forager
Jan 20, 2004
107
30
West Midlands
durulz there's a chap goes by the online name of sticks65, not sure if he frequents here, he's a knife maker not all that well known but his name appears to be doing the rounds, Ive spoken to a few people who have bought from him and been more than happy. I know he's on Britishblades and Survivalistboards if you wanna try hunt him down and talk to him about a commision, although not the latter so much anymore.
 

paulbibby

Tenderfoot
Nov 4, 2008
61
0
Kempsford Cotswolds
Amazing! Is there no beginning to your talent and tact? :rolleyes:

why why why i dont know why
to judge him like this is BS .... siberian fury is a clever lad and has quite a bit of forging under his belt and is not tactless he is a talented chap expressing his opinion and yet you have decended on him like this (offended or scared you decide)
 
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Martyn

Bushcrafter through and through
Aug 7, 2003
5,252
33
58
staffordshire
www.britishblades.com
why why why i dont know why
to judge him like this is BS .... siberian fury is a clever lad and has quite a bit of forging under his belt and is not tactless he is a talented chap expressing his opinion and yet you have decended on him like this (offended or scared you decide)

His Opinion? Really? :lmao:

Well he's certainly not short of em, but I think in this case, his opinion belongs to someone else.
 

Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
38,982
4,626
S. Lanarkshire
Siberianfury didn't think this one through methinks :rolleyes:

That knife is a Jerry Fisk.........the cross guard *alone* took *at least* a day to make.

Frankly Josh left himself open to this.

However, Mod hat on, (and that's not a "power mad mod* either :(, )the OP has very reasonably asked that his thread be returned to the topic.
Besides, he's already said he's dealt with things, thanked folks for their advice and will get back to us in due course.
.

cheers,
Toddy
 

Martyn

Bushcrafter through and through
Aug 7, 2003
5,252
33
58
staffordshire
www.britishblades.com
Jerry Fisk knives have been featured on the covers of seven publications. He has authored a book on Damascus steel, Knifemaking as a Career, and has taught at the School of Bladesmithing since 1988. In 1989 he became the 17th Mastersmith in the American Bladesmith Society. He was elected to the Board of Directors of the ABS in 1994, as well as serving as one of the Mastersmiths who review the work of applicants for the MS stamp. He also serves as the ABS liaison officer to the Texarkana College’s Bill Moran School of Bladesmithing in Washington, Arkansas, the worlds only school of bladesmithing.

He has achieved many awards among the finest are: The "William F. Moran" Knife of the Year in 1990 & 1995, Beretta Award for Outstanding Achievement in Handcrafted Cutlery 1988, Best Damascus Knife 1990, Best Handmade Art Knife 1992, Governor's "Folk Life and Traditional Arts Award" 1997.

....and he was nominated by the Govenor of Arkansas for the title of "National Living Treasure", one of only three people to ever recieve the award.

On the subject of time, Jerry wrote...

"I have spent a full week on doing nothing but gain twist fluting a handle in ivory and working about 10 hours each day. It does take awhile and lots of asprins."

But he's very approachable, I'm sure he'd be delighted to hear from Siberianfury and his nameless "mega-smith" friend how he should be knocking em out at the rate of 4 a day, and no doubt bow to his knowledge and experience. :D
 
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