Fear of the dark

zarkwon

Nomad
Mar 23, 2010
492
1
West Riding, Yorkshire
Now, not sure how to respond here, somethings just clicked i was thinking about last night, i couldn't sleep because of it, i couldn't get it out of my head.

I think you have answered the whole question in the above sentence.

Sub atomic particles
Atoms.


Tell me, what happens when you collide 2 sub atomic particles as equal and opposing forces? Those LHC folk are gonna be in for a surprise i reckon. What are the chances that all they will create is an atom? Which is a central mass with density greater than all the other parts, neutrons and electrons, equals and opposites circling the very dense central mass.

What do atoms and galaxys have in common?...Everything.

What do both have in common with the ying yang?...Everything.

Mate, why don't you just read about it. The chances of an atom being created are about the same as you coming up with a profound universal truth about particle physics which the experts have not thought of by cobbling together half baked ancient nonsense with guess work.:rolleyes:
 

HillBill

Bushcrafter through and through
Oct 1, 2008
8,165
159
W. Yorkshire
Mate, why don't you just read about it. The chances of an atom being created are about the same as you coming up with a profound universal truth about particle physics which the experts have not thought of by cobbling together half baked ancient nonsense with guess work.:rolleyes:

That half baked ancient nonsence happens to be a damn sight more accurate than sciences present thinkings of space. Hell, science keeps taking sumerian and mayan stuff for its own. So if science listens to them and takes it seriously, then perhaps its not as much nonsense as you think.
 

HillBill

Bushcrafter through and through
Oct 1, 2008
8,165
159
W. Yorkshire
i`ll go back in to my tent then and tell myself some spooky stories lol.

Ah, see now you have given yourself up :D Hiding in your tent when the moon isn't out indeed:rolleyes: and you call yourself big beast? I dunno :lmao:

I'm a tent guy for the most part, The werewolves round our parts don't know how to use a zip see, all being from the local estate. Doesn't stop them trying to take the whole tent though. I had to bite one of them once when it started humping my leg. Bloody things. Have you ever seen a wereflea? big buggers they are. :lmao: and the howl they give when they jump at you <shudders> its enough to send chills through the morning frost.
 
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Hugo

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Nov 29, 2009
2,588
2
Lost in the woods
Bump. There be creepy crawlies out there at night, they be big Black and hairy, and I be afraid of them.:lmao:
 

JDCP

Member
Nov 2, 2005
19
0
61
South Staffordshire
Hi mate, glad to but just got in from work and back in the morning so won't go mad. There is no such thing as free will. Did you cover hard determinism 14 years ago? The idea that we are agents of our own destiny is wrong as we are the products of our environment and genetic makeup. Any choice we make, though it feels like free choice, is one we had no choice but to make (not predestined as such, that is different) because of who we are and what we have experienced. I could say, right, I'm now going to drop this pencil to prove I have free will. My dropping the pencil is actually because I am the sort of person who enjoys talking about things like free will which is because of who my parents were and my life experience. My parents were who they were because of the same all the way back to the big bang. We are just a link in a chain of causes all the way back through the life of Earth and the clumping together of the galaxy etc to the big bang. One huge knock on effect. The variables are such that we could never predict them but our choices are not free. You get the idea.

Look it up on wiki for a better explanation if not as I'm not at my peak of explanatory powers just now. Here's a recent article on it but the concept is not new. http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm?id=scientists-say-free-will-probably-d-2010-04-06

Hello Zarkwon, nice of you to reply so early in the morning.

Bering's article is a good one, but I never was convinced by the infinite regress. Sure, there's a causality behind all things going back to the big bang. Cause and effect are a given (unless you know about an uncaused cause!) but I'm not comfortable with the idea of using it to explain away what some call free will choices. I checked out Wiki briefly...I'm not reading all that stuff in detail again! I think I was a compatibilist as far as I can remember.

The hard determinist has problems because if he denies free will, he must accept that people are not responsible for their actions...so in Bering's example AH might grow up and do all the evil stuff, but would not have been responsible (morally or otherwise) unless you took Bering's option of course.

This seems odd. People behave in broadly similar ways towards one another. For the most part (it seems) people treat each other as if they are responsible for their actions ie nicely! if this is not a free will choice, and it is causally determined...why? How does the causal chain work all the way from the big bang to produce, by and large, behaviour that appears to be driven in part at least by free will...after all not everyone behaves nicely-Bering's example as a case in point, so some actually choose to do harm.

I'm not comfortable with one or the other...I think there's causality sure enough, but I think one can choose as well. That's the best I can do, I've thought enough for today.

Never dreamt I'd do a post like this on a bushcraft site! Imagine the campfire discussion after a few beers...ghosts & free will!

Regards.
 

jonnno

Forager
Mar 19, 2009
223
0
50
Belfast
On a side note (as this thread seems to have wandered ;)) occasionally you can scare other people. We were doing a night hike a few weeks back that crossed the occasional road and in one instance went through a very isolated car park. As it turned out when we got there at about 9ish there was a solitary parked in the dark with a couple in it. They must have filled their trousers (assuming they were wearing any) when two blokes with rucksacks came ploughing through wearing head torches. They were even parked right by the exit so we had to walk right by their car. Though I still think we were having more fun than they were :D
 
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JonathanD

Ophiological Genius
Sep 3, 2004
12,815
1,511
Stourton,UK
I do have one question though, what is the opposite of gravity?

This question and my answer in subsequent posts has been bothering me, so I've been really REALLY thinking about this for hours and hours. Just tonight I was watching a documentary on the moon and it's slow recession from Earth. Then in a massive EUREKA moment it struck me that the retreat of the moon is obviously opposing the gravitational force of the Earth, whilst still being attracted by it's gravitational pull. Therefore, I think I have found the answer... centrifugal force. I believe that is the opposite of gravity.
 

HillBill

Bushcrafter through and through
Oct 1, 2008
8,165
159
W. Yorkshire
This question and my answer in subsequent posts has been bothering me, so I've been really REALLY thinking about this for hours and hours. Just tonight I was watching a documentary on the moon and it's slow recession from Earth. Then in a massive EUREKA moment it struck me that the retreat of the moon is obviously opposing the gravitational force of the Earth, whilst still being attracted by it's gravitational pull. Therefore, I think I have found the answer... centrifugal force. I believe that is the opposite of gravity.

Ok, so suppose your correct, where is the source? If centrifugal force and gravity both exist together as opposites, are you suggesting the come from the same source or a seperate one?

I'm still liking the opposite of a curve is a mirror image of itself, gravity being the opposite of gravity.

This is what they say our galaxy looks like side on. Mirror images.

our_galaxy_2.jpg


And this is our sun relative to the centre

Milky-Way_whole_grid.gif


The sun is in a position identical to that of the dots on a ying yang ;) Also, if centrifugal force is the opposite then the galaxys "arms" in the above pic would then be spreading outwards.

How about when gravity meets gravity but flowing in opposite directions, centrifugal force is the result. The reasoning being it is squeezed out by the pressure of gravity meeting gravity. Which then produces equal and opposite force to 2 sources of gravity and this holds the galaxy together. In theory it would also lock 2 back to back forces together. Thinking on it though the forces would be face to face. 2 forces that hit each other head on and had nowhere to go, so they expand their energy outwards, which sealed/overlapped at the edges like the pic above shows Making a gravity field.. The light parts top and bottom being gravity with direction of flow being into each other and the dark strip being the centrifugal force

Same with the earth pushing the moon away, 2 forces of gravity meet and opposite forces are created. The earth would have to spin the opposite direction to the moon though or the moon not at all. Otherwise they would just be equal forces and would attract, not repel. Almost like they are rolling around on each others field of gravity. Which begs the question, would a planet spin if it didn't have a moon? Or would it, like a smooth bore musket ball just drop off its orbit. Rifle bullets spin and are accurate and stay on the bore line, musket balls don't spin and stray from the boreline as soon as the leave the barrel.

Now, heres another interesting thought. What happens when the outbound CF from one galaxy meets the outbound CF from another. Well at the point of impact you will have 2 inward moving forces, which is equal and opposite( equal force opposite direction), Gravity and gravity, they then collide and produce CF and birth another galaxy,Who's CF then travels out to meet yet another galaxys CF again to create gravity and gravity and so it continues ad infinitum. Like a never ending construction of gear wheels, each one turning others marking the passage of time. Each galaxy is an echo of the 26000 years previously, one cycle of creation. Like the mayans said, at the end of each cycle a new one is created and time moves on

2 x Opposing gravitys = 1 Centrifugal force
1 Centrifugal force = 1 gravity

1+1=2=1
1>+<1=(<2>)=<(1)>

It will be impossibe for 2 CF to come from the same central source , Though more than likely they will meet another sources CF at the edge of a galaxy and form a new one there, which will overlap this one by half. We would theoretically cross into the next galaxy and be taken from this one in its rotation. This would happen because the forces Pulling us into our own galaxy are 1. The gravity that flows towards the centre. Yet the forces taking us away are 3, The gravity from the new galaxy (1) pulling us towards it, which would be a tie with gravity pulling the other way (1) and the CF(2) from the present galaxy.

Of couse for this to happen, it would mean that the CF force from the new galaxy has to grow/spread outwards slowly after formation. Perhaps it takes 26000 years for it to reach the outskirts of the gravity field and CF already there coming inwards..

So along these lines, When equals meet ( gravity and CF from the same source or flowing in same direction) nothing happens as the strength of each is different and one will overcome the other, CF being the strongest, So the galaxy will be spreading outwards, not being sucked inwards.

But when equals meet, ( same force) but head in opposite directions then a struggle begins. Neither can get over under or around the other so over time more gravity builds up behind each side the pressure getting more and more, which create the CF whose pressure is trapped for a long time, then it breaks free and travels outwards until it meets another force of equal and opposing nature then the pressure builds up again.. The clash of the GODS.:D

Which would mean that CF and not gravity is the prime force in the universe. That and the fact that gravity IS CF if the CF is coming at you. Yet Gravity alone can never be CF

All hypothetical of course. :D
 
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Mastino

Settler
Mar 8, 2006
651
1
61
Netherlands
All I know is that I use a tripwire with one of those anti-theft loud sirens usually used for securing your luggage camera's etc. A little cord, put the thing under tension and wait what happens. Besides the problem of humans playing nasty, the most scary experience I had was to wake in the middle of the night and looking in the eyes of a huge horse... I was sleeping near his drinking place. Fortunately it didn't step on me.
 

JonathanD

Ophiological Genius
Sep 3, 2004
12,815
1,511
Stourton,UK
Ok, so suppose your correct, where is the source? If centrifugal force and gravity both exist together as opposites, are you suggesting the come from the same source or a seperate one?

I'm still liking the opposite of a curve is a mirror image of itself, gravity being the opposite of gravity.

This is what they say our galaxy looks like side on. Mirror images.

our_galaxy_2.jpg


And this is our sun relative to the centre

Milky-Way_whole_grid.gif


The sun is in a position identical to that of the dots on a ying yang ;) Also, if centrifugal force is the opposite then the galaxys "arms" in the above pic would then be spreading outwards.

How about when gravity meets gravity as an equal, centrifugal force is the result. The reasoning being it is squeezed out by the pressure of gravity meeting gravity. Which then produces equal and opposite force to 2 sources of gravity and this holds the galaxy together. In theory it would also lock 2 back to back forces together.

Gravity is caused by mass and centrifugal force caused by speed and movement. One distorts spacetime and the other doesn't. It is the closest thing to an oppposite reaction that I can think of, and it is just my own thought on the matter, so far from being known fact.

I'm not convinced on the opposite of a curve being a mirror image, it's just a mirror image, which in a curves case would be exactly the same, so therefore not an opposite.

The "arms" in your picture above are indeed spreading out although very very slowly. It is still in the infancy of expansion, but showing all the signs.

If the sun represents one of the dots in the ying yang, what represents the other?
 

HillBill

Bushcrafter through and through
Oct 1, 2008
8,165
159
W. Yorkshire
Gravity is caused by mass and centrifugal force caused by speed and movement. One distorts spacetime and the other doesn't. It is the closest thing to an oppposite reaction that I can think of, and it is just my own thought on the matter, so far from being known fact.

I'm not convinced on the opposite of a curve being a mirror image, it's just a mirror image, which in a curves case would be exactly the same, so therefore not an opposite.

The "arms" in your picture above are indeed spreading out although very very slowly. It is still in the infancy of expansion, but showing all the signs.

If the sun represents one of the dots in the ying yang, what represents the other?

I edited my last post mate, have a re read.

CF may also be produced by pressure and movement? Imagine the 2 halves as the ying yang as 2 blobs of gravity.
 

HillBill

Bushcrafter through and through
Oct 1, 2008
8,165
159
W. Yorkshire
I'm not convinced on the opposite of a curve being a mirror image, it's just a mirror image, which in a curves case would be exactly the same, so therefore not an opposite.

If the sun represents one of the dots in the ying yang, what represents the other?

Mirror image like this :) Though its a bit rough.

ying-yang1.jpg


The other sun? Just a negatively charged equal to our positively charged sun. In positively charged space as opposed to our negatively charged space. We have white sun black space, otherside has black sun, white space.

Heres a pic looking accross the galaxy, doesnt look like a black hole where light cant escape from to me, indeed, it looks positively bright.;) It appears thicker at one end where the arrow is too, Unfortunately we cant see through the dividing cloud.
lasergalaxy_beletsky-1.jpg
 
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