as to hugging never had anything like that in my childhood.still find it hard to be touchy feely with people yet every one we know brings there trouble to us
Disability and behavior of members
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Put thirty Scots in a lift and we'll have found out everyone's job and that the guy at the buttons is related to the wifie who stayed next door to the wee woman at the back's Grannybefore it gets up five floors.
Ignore someone when you're standing at a bus stop at your peril
Not quite true but it's pretty close sometimes.
Hugging is a normal part of life for me, though the indescriminate right to kiss folks at the New Year can sometimes get a bit wearing.
I go into the workshops and everybody I know hugs meIt's kind of expected really.
I agree that if the lady concerned had been asked three times and she persisted, then you have a right to clearly denounce her actions. I still don't agree with the threat of a slapped face mind you, but no, it sounds as though she was well out of order.
cheers,
M
Oh I don't know if it's as simple as being a Scots thing Toddy? I've found you West Coasters a lot more tactile than the somewhat Calvanistic East Coasters. I've gone for days in Edinburgh with no-one speaking to me, but when I lived in Glasgow I used to get the hind legs talked off of me.
There's an old saying that if you put an Arab and and Englishman in a room they'll do circuits of it with the English chap backing away from the Arab to maintain his personal space. They also say if you want five opinions put four Scotsmen in a room.
Think we all just have to makedo with folks personal and cultural differences.
TTFN
GB.
don't mind being hugged personally, but Ive no idea how to initiate it myself. I can't do eye contact with facial expression at the same time, adding the body gesture of hugging is too much!
There is a book called "look my in the eye" by John Elder. good autobiography.
There is a book called "look my in the eye" by John Elder. good autobiography.
Firecrest, I think we met up at the moot but I am not sure.
Thanks for this posting and your passion concening others welfare; its a rare thing in this society of ours. The one thing that comes to mind and after reading the posts, explanations and replies is the possibility that it is a case of 'like meets like'. Most of the 'crafters I have come across are just a little bit 'off key' and I include myself in this. There are days if I am not wearing my professional face all you would get out of me is uncalled for profanitity.
So now that members and BCUK in general are aware of this multilayered problem, lets hope that a new and greater level of tolerence and understanding is reached by all.
More importantly dont give up on us, your voice has been heard and the ripple effect of change of attitude and compassion will affect millions.
Sandsnakes
Thanks for this posting and your passion concening others welfare; its a rare thing in this society of ours. The one thing that comes to mind and after reading the posts, explanations and replies is the possibility that it is a case of 'like meets like'. Most of the 'crafters I have come across are just a little bit 'off key' and I include myself in this. There are days if I am not wearing my professional face all you would get out of me is uncalled for profanitity.
So now that members and BCUK in general are aware of this multilayered problem, lets hope that a new and greater level of tolerence and understanding is reached by all.
More importantly dont give up on us, your voice has been heard and the ripple effect of change of attitude and compassion will affect millions.
Sandsnakes
My family background is very Presbyterian, very Scottish small towns, from Lanarkshire through Stirling and the Hillfoots, Perthsire through to Fife. I truthfully find it's commonplace behaviour.
I work right across that area and up into Inverness, and it's the same there too.
Maybe it's just the people I meet
Edinburgh can be an odd place though, it's so full of strangers. Too many to deal with and welcome properly as visitors. The locals find it hard to make space for themselves some days. Nice folks though.
Probably British Red's attitude would do best to initiate conversation there, certainly during the height of the tourist season.
I read one of the anthropological journals which had a discussion on tribal and village interactions compared with town and city. The gist of it was that village mentality people will acknowledge every person they meet. To not do so, to ignore someone, is a horrendous slight. However, in a town situation one physically cannot do this with every simgle person.
I think I'm a villager
cheers,
Toddy
I read one of the anthropological journals which had a discussion on tribal and village interactions compared with town and city. The gist of it was that village mentality people will acknowledge every person they meet. To not do so, to ignore someone, is a horrendous slight. However, in a town situation one physically cannot do this with every simgle person.
I think I'm a villager
Interesting that. Certainly true in the areas I live / have lived. More scattered farms and the like than true villages. Its normal to encounter two cars stopped in a lane - drivers windows down and exchanging news.
Its not the social interaction that I find odd - its the physical intimacy. Particularly from relative strangers.
I actually quite like the "reserve" that it implies. I recall an odd occasion that perhaps summed it up - an old fellah called Bert who I had known for many years was at the market. Crowded place. He saw me and I saw him. Without forcing between loads of people we couldn't approach each other. He raised his stick, I touched the peak of my cap.
Its enough
Red
Coming from Leek in the Midlands, it was a heck of a shock to move to Bristol, and to find that people didn’t greet each other in the street.
Up home everyone from the youngest whippersnapper to the busiest of busy bodies, would acknowledge you as you passed them, be it a ‘good morning’ to strangers as they passed, right up to a informal chat as old friends met on the way to or from the local shops. Leek is not a village, but it does have a village sensibility.
Bristol is the polar opposite, you rarely get even so much as eye contact, I've lived in my house for 10 years, and see the same people day in and day out, yet my good morning/afternoon/evening is received with dark muttering and mumbling.
Hugging is ok, if you treat it no more than a greeting, I’m wary of hugging people I don’t know, so unless they initiate it, it’s more perfunctory nod of the head from me. Now my pet hate is handshaking, I don’t mind shaking hands if I’m being introduced to the person for the first time, or even if I had not seen a good friend for a few months/years, but not every time I see someone. My ‘in laws’ have taken to shaking hands with ‘all and sundry’ over then past few years, and it can take a good twenty minutes to say goodbye, as the father in law call everyone to say goodbye to you.
Up home everyone from the youngest whippersnapper to the busiest of busy bodies, would acknowledge you as you passed them, be it a ‘good morning’ to strangers as they passed, right up to a informal chat as old friends met on the way to or from the local shops. Leek is not a village, but it does have a village sensibility.
Bristol is the polar opposite, you rarely get even so much as eye contact, I've lived in my house for 10 years, and see the same people day in and day out, yet my good morning/afternoon/evening is received with dark muttering and mumbling.
Hugging is ok, if you treat it no more than a greeting, I’m wary of hugging people I don’t know, so unless they initiate it, it’s more perfunctory nod of the head from me. Now my pet hate is handshaking, I don’t mind shaking hands if I’m being introduced to the person for the first time, or even if I had not seen a good friend for a few months/years, but not every time I see someone. My ‘in laws’ have taken to shaking hands with ‘all and sundry’ over then past few years, and it can take a good twenty minutes to say goodbye, as the father in law call everyone to say goodbye to you.
In Belgium the formalised handshake was so ingrained (at least when I was there) that if your hands were dirty you would offer an elbow to shake!
Shades of Young Frankenstein!
Cultural as well as other conciderations come into play with Hug/Kiss/Handshake acceptability...I guess...
Shades of Young Frankenstein!
Cultural as well as other conciderations come into play with Hug/Kiss/Handshake acceptability...I guess...
Hugs, not something I remeber well from my childhood, either we didn't do it as a family or more likely I didn't like it as a child.........so as an adult, I'm not a very huggy person because I find it difficult to discern when it is appropriate, or read the body language. This then seems to be taken up by other people, probably my wrong body language and they don't tend to hug me! However, this does change over a short period and they evnetually make make it quite obvious to me that it's appropriate and welcome.
I quite enjoy hugs from friends/relatives and aquaintanses, who I may not have known for too long, but I'm uncomfortable with hugging, people I've only recently met.
The post about male and female interaction was well thought out and as a generalisation fairly spot on, however I've found that the majority of people don't seem to be "general specification" and I have a huge amount of experience which also goes against the grain in this department! Maybe I'm a bit strange or wierd and as such attract folks of a slightly different ilke.
To give you an example, a group of people I regularly meet with at weekends, who are from all over the country and from all walks of life and professions, including their families...(we have come to consider each other as family over the years and newcomers are always welcome to the group regardless.....truly a cosmoplitan mix).....regularly hug, female/female, male/female and even male/male (depending), do swear, often drink regularly, all sexes partake and enjoy the boyish banter, although it is never forced on any individual......urine extraction is widely encouraged and is often a self targeted activity....and the standard greating is "Morning fat f***", among the adults and the kids all know me as "drunkle".
Now all of the above may seem somewhat strange to most but, I have not placed the above in context, which would then add a level of normality..........although the group can be quite large at times....(60+people ) ......many are not good at socialising in large groups, but are often to be found conversing one on one or in small groups, however there are no "cliques" and people are never intentional excluded.
So anyone who thinks they may not "fit in" at a moot or other gathering, think again, don't deny yourself, get along and try it out......If you like one to one conversations, it's odds on there is someone else there looking to have the same!
Smoggy......(only slightly wierd)
I quite enjoy hugs from friends/relatives and aquaintanses, who I may not have known for too long, but I'm uncomfortable with hugging, people I've only recently met.
The post about male and female interaction was well thought out and as a generalisation fairly spot on, however I've found that the majority of people don't seem to be "general specification" and I have a huge amount of experience which also goes against the grain in this department! Maybe I'm a bit strange or wierd and as such attract folks of a slightly different ilke.
To give you an example, a group of people I regularly meet with at weekends, who are from all over the country and from all walks of life and professions, including their families...(we have come to consider each other as family over the years and newcomers are always welcome to the group regardless.....truly a cosmoplitan mix).....regularly hug, female/female, male/female and even male/male (depending), do swear, often drink regularly, all sexes partake and enjoy the boyish banter, although it is never forced on any individual......urine extraction is widely encouraged and is often a self targeted activity....and the standard greating is "Morning fat f***", among the adults and the kids all know me as "drunkle".
Now all of the above may seem somewhat strange to most but, I have not placed the above in context, which would then add a level of normality..........although the group can be quite large at times....(60+people ) ......many are not good at socialising in large groups, but are often to be found conversing one on one or in small groups, however there are no "cliques" and people are never intentional excluded.
So anyone who thinks they may not "fit in" at a moot or other gathering, think again, don't deny yourself, get along and try it out......If you like one to one conversations, it's odds on there is someone else there looking to have the same!
Smoggy......(only slightly wierd)
Hi firecrest an interesting post, whilst people in general are more aware of disabilities not all stop and think before having a go at someone over what they see as unreasonable behaviour. Quite simply that is because we do not all go around automatically assuming there is a disorder behind the behaviour. Then as and when the situation is actually explained or recognised then one often wishes the ground would open up and swallow us. I am quick to react, maybe too quick when I feel threatened or belittled. Yet can understand how various disorders or disabilities can affect behaviour. So whilst I would deplore knowing bad behaviour I can understand how it would arise through ignorance of a particular condition. Most of us have little understanding of the various conditions that many have to live with yet it does not make us unsympathetic when we know about it.
I am sure that most of the behaviour you witnessed fell into the unknowing category, at least I hope it did.
I am sure that most of the behaviour you witnessed fell into the unknowing category, at least I hope it did.
The "private space" is definately a cultural thing.
As I worked in the NHS, I got to meet and work with just about every nationality and social group going. Magic.
One group I noticed were the Africans. They had a habit of standing close and touching your chest with the palm of their hand when talking to you. Possibly because I am a Scot, this didn't bother me at all.
As I live in a very small village, I say hello and wave to any and everyone that I meet or passes in a car. I'd rather appear stupid than snub anyone.
As I worked in the NHS, I got to meet and work with just about every nationality and social group going. Magic.
One group I noticed were the Africans. They had a habit of standing close and touching your chest with the palm of their hand when talking to you. Possibly because I am a Scot, this didn't bother me at all.
As I live in a very small village, I say hello and wave to any and everyone that I meet or passes in a car. I'd rather appear stupid than snub anyone.
I found Arab people to be (on the whole) very friendly people, and they will greet you with a handshake but it lasts longer than a normal handshake (normal to us, anyway). They can stand for five minutes and won't give you your hand back! If you're not expecting it, it is really weird but it is absolutely normal to them. Once you are aware that it is their social norm, then it is easier to accept and is no longer a problem.
Nobody should do something if they feel uncomfortable with it, but nobody knows unless you tell them. I'm sure that most people have a tactful way of saying "get off me, I don't want you near me!" but other people need to respect that decision and not make a big deal about it. If I had declined a hug and was called a miserable cow as a consequence, I'd have broke my foot off in the offending persons' rear! She seems incredibly stuck up and ignorant!
Nobody should do something if they feel uncomfortable with it, but nobody knows unless you tell them. I'm sure that most people have a tactful way of saying "get off me, I don't want you near me!" but other people need to respect that decision and not make a big deal about it. If I had declined a hug and was called a miserable cow as a consequence, I'd have broke my foot off in the offending persons' rear! She seems incredibly stuck up and ignorant!
Slightly off topic, I spent time in rural Malawi.
There people greet you with a three grasp hand shake which they will maintain while talking (and waiting for the translation).
The most agreeable were the grandmothers who where so warm and welcoming, giggling at my african will holding my hand. Strangely comforting in a part of the world so different to home.
There people greet you with a three grasp hand shake which they will maintain while talking (and waiting for the translation).
The most agreeable were the grandmothers who where so warm and welcoming, giggling at my african will holding my hand. Strangely comforting in a part of the world so different to home.
An interesting thread and food for thought.
I wholeheartedly agree that public awareness needs to be raised with regard to recognising and dealing with what is sometimes the challenging behaviour shown by others.
That said, I agree with John Fenna in that sometimes you have to give a firm and simply understood message to some people pointing out that their behaviour is inappropriate. Often this reminder that they are in the here and now is enough to stop the problem.
As for hugging, Im with Red, I only like hugs off my family and we hug a lot, this new trend of hugging everyone or even worse the fake kiss kiss on the cheeks is just not for me.
I wholeheartedly agree that public awareness needs to be raised with regard to recognising and dealing with what is sometimes the challenging behaviour shown by others.
That said, I agree with John Fenna in that sometimes you have to give a firm and simply understood message to some people pointing out that their behaviour is inappropriate. Often this reminder that they are in the here and now is enough to stop the problem.
As for hugging, Im with Red, I only like hugs off my family and we hug a lot, this new trend of hugging everyone or even worse the fake kiss kiss on the cheeks is just not for me.
Oh yes that fake 'kiss kiss' is enought to make you sick alright :tongue-ti
And so of course is any sort of insincere/uncomfortable hugging.
Toddy's friendly type hugs are most welcome in this neck of the woods.
But the best hugs are always the ones from your mates........just after your team has scored the winning goal in the last five minutes of the game
Firecrest, what was the initial cause in this whole thing, if you don't mind me asking?
I've spent an hour reading the whole thread and can't get the picture in my mind.
I've spent an hour reading the whole thread and can't get the picture in my mind.
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