Climate Change I hope this is not to political but it is so important

[The MAX]

Fact of the matter climate change is happening. Most people have accepted this, but there is still a big debate (for some reason) whether or not it is caused by humans, or whether or not it is a problem.

The problem seems to be that people "are making up their own minds about it." However when it comes to medical breakthroughs, or technological advancements, the common Joe doesn't seemed to concerned. Leave the science to the scientists people! I come from a science background, and even being in different field I didn't hmm and haaa about climate change. The scientists in this field are in a large majority consensus about the matter. How science works, is you base your current knowledge on published and accepted theories, and work forward. I don't need to go back and derive Newtons laws every time I want to do a physics problem. The work is done and submitted to peer reviewed journals. Then other experts in the field from different parts of the world in different institutions review the work and determine whether it is legitimate or not. These people are often a kind of competitor. There is always a drive to be the first one to publish new results, as redoing published work is less impressive. The scientific method works, and it has for hundreds of years. Some times there are what some people would call errors, when in fact they are more like incomplete theories. Could they be wrong? Sure. But if anyone has an idea of what is happening, it's them, not TV personalities, etc.

If I had an electrician wiring my house, when he goes to give me the final inspection shweet i wouldn't say "Hold on now! I gotta work this all out for myself!"

Then there is the "rich corrupt scientist" argument.

Ha.
HAHAHA.
Sure, I'm sure it happens from time to time. Especially "scientists" who are hired by private industry like tobacco or oil. I'm sure there are "equivalents" who work for green energy companies. However, most of this work is done by government research centers or public universities. Generally these people are doing science because they care about knowledge, and the way things work. Most of them struggle with funding to continue their work.

Anyway, people seem to question some things like evolution, and climate change, but take sciences word for it on gravity and medicine. That's my rant on the matter

 

[Midnitehound]

Fact of the matter climate change is happening. Most people have accepted this, but there is still a big debate (for some reason) whether or not it is caused by humans, or whether or not it is a problem.

Climate change has always happened!

The problem seems to be that people "are making up their own minds about it." Oh, heaven forbid!

However when it comes to medical breakthroughs, or technological advancements, the common Joe doesn't seemed to concerned. Leave the science to the scientists people! Switch off your brain, we have experts to think for you, don't worry just watch the football and drink your beer!

I come from a science background, and even being in different field I didn't hmm and haaa about climate change. The scientists in this field are in a large majority consensus about the matter. Consensus Science is a contradiction in terms!

How science works, is you base your current knowledge on published and accepted theories, and work forward. I don't need to go back and derive Newtons laws every time I want to do a physics problem. The work is done and submitted to peer reviewed journals. Then other experts in the field from different parts of the world in different institutions review the work and determine whether it is legitimate or not. These people are often a kind of competitor. There is always a drive to be the first one to publish new results, as redoing published work is less impressive. The scientific method works, and it has for hundreds of years. Some times there are what some people would call errors, when in fact they are more like incomplete theories. Could they be wrong? Sure. But if anyone has an idea of what is happening, it's them, not TV personalities, etc. It is the theoretical Mathematicians that are driving much of Scientific theory and Tesla remarked that Mathematicians had lost touch with reality even in his day! The scientific method has become corrupted and is failing in many instances. More and more Scientists are becoming baffled by new discoveries and observations because they can not predict or explain what they see without resorting to the most ridiculous fantasy. Politics, arrogance, false theories and funding issues are corrupting Science. We now have Scientism in many cases instead of Science and Natural Philosophy. Joined up Science is a rarity, everything is too specialised. The Scientism religion has taken over and true Science is decreasing. Cosmology is in crisis, cometary theory a complete joke. We still don't understand how the Sun, Gravity or Magnetism works, we don't even understand water. Most astronomical predictions and interpretations are completely wrong.

If I had an electrician wiring my house, when he goes to give me the final inspection shweet i wouldn't say "Hold on now! I gotta work this all out for myself!" It is a good idea to have a basic understanding of wiring and electricity though as a fool and his money are easily parted.

Then there is the "rich corrupt scientist" argument. There are plenty of poor corrupt Scientists.

Ha.
HAHAHA.
Sure, I'm sure it happens from time to time. Especially "scientists" who are hired by private industry like tobacco or oil. I'm sure there are "equivalents" who work for green energy companies. However, most of this work is done by government research centers or public universities. Generally these people are doing science because they care about knowledge, and the way things work. Most of them struggle with funding to continue their work. Many are way off base regardless of funding.

Anyway, people seem to question some things like evolution, and climate change, but take sciences word for it on gravity and medicine. I don't take Sciences word, whomever he is, on Gravity or Medicine. I am a BSc(Hons) Scientist, researcher, lecturer, tutor and teacher. Science and Scientism has not become my religion though. Scientism is about to hit a wall. Technology is a different thing all together.


That's my rant on the matter

..............................

 

[The MAX]

Scientism? Not understanding magnetism? I honestly don't know what to day to most of that so instead I'll just say nothing...

 

[Midnitehound]

Scientism? Not understanding magnetism? I honestly don't know what to day to most of that so instead I'll just say nothing...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientism

 

[Aussiepom]

The answer is starting us in the face. We should be treating the cause, not the symptoms.

The root cause of so many problems on the planet, not just climate change, is the size of the human population. A large, (and I mean large, not just several million), reduction in the population would allow many of the problems to resolve themselves, without any specific action being taken.

The problem, of course, is that that particular pill would be a bitter one to swallow. Not least, because it goes against human nature. The fact remains though that we are a destructive species and the majority of other inhabitants on the planet would be better off with far fewer humans on it.

 

[petrochemicals]

thorium. Ha.

 

[santaman2000]

There's plenty of money available to solve the problem. The top 300 richest people in the world have more money than the poorest 3 billion.

When the "poorest 3 billion" have less than a half dollar each, that ain't hard to do.

 

[santaman2000]

......Then there is the "rich corrupt scientist" argument.

Ha.
HAHAHA.
Sure, I'm sure it happens from time to time. Especially "scientists" who are hired by private industry like tobacco or oil. I'm sure there are "equivalents" who work for green energy companies. However, most of this work is done by government research centers or public universities. Generally these people are doing science because they care about knowledge, and the way things work. Most of them struggle with funding to continue their work......

As you said, "most of then struggle with funding for their work." And so they struggle to make their results suit their donors. Don't ever kid yourself that "public universities" aren't just another "private business."

 

[mountainm]

Ask yourself these questions:

1. Do you agree climate change is happening (yes/no) ?

2. Do you think climate change is man made (yes/no) ?

3. Do you think a small change in the planets climate will have detrimental effects on our lives (yes/no) ?

4. Do you think that the problem isnt urgent yet (yes/no) ?

5. Do you agree fossil fuels are a finite resource (yes/no) ?

6. Do you think investing in alternative forms of power generation is a good idea (yes/no) ?

7. Do you think we should act now to try to prevent further changes to the planets climate (yes/no) ?

8. Do you think that anyone has a hidden agenda that benefits from a climate change prevention lobby (yes/no) ?

9. Do you think that anyone has a hidden agenda that benefits from a climate change denial lobby (yes/no) ?

 

[nodd]

I feel it is important that we look after where we live. We also need to realise what an important part nature still plays in our everyday modern life. With scientists saying that they are “95% certain that humans are the dominant cause of global warming since the 1950s. There is also recorded evidence of a polar ward shift of a range of indicator species.
Trying to mitigate the effect man has had and is having on the planet will cost money. The ecosystem services that the planet provides and are affected by climate change and a whole host of other human actions have on them. Some of these affects we are only just starting to understand given the complexity of the interactions within the different ecosystems. The Ecosystem services the planet provides are free of charge in monetary terms until we have to provide them by other means. Some of these are explained here http://www.amazon.co.uk/What-Has-Nature-Ever-Done/dp/1846685605
We have been and are very good at raping the planet of its resources and not thinking of the consequence. History is full of examples of mans over exploitation of the planets natural resources and never mind the consequence mentality the Passenger Pigeon ,Buffalo and the on-going destruction of the rain forest are just some examples .
Compared to a geological time scale we have not be here long at all and may well be on the extinction list on that time scale . All I know you don’t go to the toilet upstream of your camp.

 

[widu13]

Just had a quick scan through the thread. Looks political to me and I look forward to it being binned.

 

[mrcharly]

When I was a kid, I loved 'Captains Courageous' but Rudyard Kipling. Tales of two boys crewing a fishing boat, vivid descriptions of the waters of the Grand Banks boiling with Cod.
No Cod left on the Grand Banks now.

In Western Australia (where I grew up), there was the world's largest Sandalwood forest. It was vast, absolutely huge. Sandalwood oil was Australia's biggest export earner in the 1840s. None left now, it is all desert.

There is absolutely no doubt that mankind can affect environments on a large scale. If we don't take care, we destroy whole ecosystems. Just ask the Grand Banks fishermen.

 

[Midnitehound]

thorium. Ha.

Amen to that.

If someone discovered a cheap clean plentiful energy supply that everyone could have individually and could easily provide all their energy needs regardless do you think TPTB would let us have it? If you think so I'm afraid you are very very naive and need to be more up to date on your History, Current Affairs and TPTBs own writings. Advanced technology doesn't generally get released to the general bod. You only have to have half a brain and do some research to know that.

 

[Midnitehound]

The answer is starting us in the face. We should be treating the cause, not the symptoms.

The root cause of so many problems on the planet, not just climate change, is the size of the human population. A large, (and I mean large, not just several million), reduction in the population would allow many of the problems to resolve themselves, without any specific action being taken.

The problem, of course, is that that particular pill would be a bitter one to swallow. Not least, because it goes against human nature. The fact remains though that we are a destructive species and the majority of other inhabitants on the planet would be better off with far fewer humans on it.

I'm sorry but the veiled suggestion that we need to exterminate most of the World's population to save the Planet is absolutely disgusting and untrue! It is shocking that so many people are falling for this totalitarian propaganda, falling for the talking points, disinfo. and BS we are fed through the propaganda box. The only over population on this Planet are the puppet Politicians (rather than Statesmen) and the Psychopaths that really run the place. We have plenty to go round and the technology to provide more than just the basic needs for people. It is the corruption that is the problem not the innocent children and loving parents that just want to live free and happy. This whole eugenics over population BS is a widespread poison infecting otherwise sane minds to distract from what the real problem is. And yes I am familiar with all the figures, I'm also familiar with stuff behind the scenes that many people are not.

 

[santaman2000]

Ask yourself these questions:

Do you agree climate change is happening (yes/no) ?

Do you think climate change is man made (yes/no) ?

Do you think a small change in the planets climate will have detrimental effects on our lives (yes/no) ?

Do you think that the problem isnt urgent yet (yes/no) ?

Do you agree fossil fuels are a finite resource (yes/no) ?

Do you think investing in alternative forms of power generation is a good idea (yes/no) ?

Do you think we should act now to try to prevent further changes to the planets climate (yes/no) ?

Do you think that anyone has a hidden agenda that benefits from a climate change prevention lobby (yes/no) ?

Do you think that anyone has a hidden agenda that benefits from a climate change denial lobby (yes/no) ?

Can you edit this post (by numbering the questions) to make it easier to post answers?

 

[mountainm]

Can you edit this post (by numbering the questions) to make it easier to post answers?

Done. .

 

[Midnitehound]

Do you agree climate change is happening (always has) ?

Do you think climate change is man made (very little unless we start deliberately geoengineering and spraying huge amounts of Aluminium Oxide etc. into the atmosphere like the geoengineering Scientists and advocates suggest. They admit this testing is already being done) ?

Do you think a small change in the planets climate will have detrimental effects on our lives (on the whole no) ?

Do you think that the problem isnt urgent yet (yes and much cheaper to adapt than this crazy idea we can control things we don't understand which is in fact leading to totalitarian environmentalist Fascism) ?

Do you agree fossil fuels are a finite resource (yes but so is rock. However the Russians have believed that oil is abiotic for 50+ years and there is much more available than we are led to believe) ?

Do you think investing in alternative forms of power generation is a good idea (yes, but effective alternatives are buried, we get windmills to tilt at instead) ?

Do you think we should act now to try to prevent further changes to the planets climate (no - laughable) ?

Do you think that anyone has a hidden agenda that benefits from a climate change prevention lobby (yes) ?

Do you think that anyone has a hidden agenda that benefits from a climate change denial lobby (people always have agendas, the most worrying is the agenda of those pushing AGW) ?

................................

 

[boatman]

Would seem sensible to invest in the amelioration of the effects of sea-level rising. For example establishing new homes for threatened island nations. If the ice is retreating then the population as well as species could migrate north.

On a micro level it seems silly to me that inhabitants of the Somerset Levels haven't already invested in their own boats given that they have the model of the Turf Boat that was found on virtually every farm one or two generations ago. http://www.wbm.org.uk/withyboats.html

 

[santaman2000]

Ask yourself these questions:

1. Do you agree climate change is happening (yes/no) ?

2. Do you think climate change is man made (yes/no) ?

3. Do you think a small change in the planets climate will have detrimental effects on our lives (yes/no) ?

4. Do you think that the problem isnt urgent yet (yes/no) ?

5. Do you agree fossil fuels are a finite resource (yes/no) ?

6. Do you think investing in alternative forms of power generation is a good idea (yes/no) ?

7. Do you think we should act now to try to prevent further changes to the planets climate (yes/no) ?

8. Do you think that anyone has a hidden agenda that benefits from a climate change prevention lobby (yes/no) ?

9. Do you think that anyone has a hidden agenda that benefits from a climate change denial lobby (yes/no) ?

1. Yes, but I've been wrong before.

2. Partially (this is the key to many succeeding answers) Even before the current evedence and resulting theory, it was generally agreed that the last ice age was about 10,000 years ago, and the next one is probably about 15,000 years inti the future. With that in mind, then even without manmade influences, we're still in the warming side of the cycle.

3. Some detrimental (as coastlines change near existing cities and similar) some benefitial (as the Arcttic ice caps melt the obvious expansion of short shipping routes and similar. Nothing comes without a price. The key to survival (for any species) is adaptability.

4. I don't know

5. Yes

6. Investing? By whom? Probabaly (this will be key to another subsequent answer)

7. I wish it were possible, There is no world government that can coordinate a truly effective strategy. Further, I would qualify that answer to say that we should only try IF we can limt that effort to stopping the manmade influences (we don't truly understand the natural cycle)

8. & 9. The only conceivable people/institutions would be the oil industry. So, NO. Why do I say that? Because they aren't truly "oil" industries any more. They are "energy" companies. It's in their best interest to find another marketable energy source to replace the "finite" fossil fuels when they run out (see answer #6)

 

[Midnitehound]

Just had a quick scan through the thread. Looks political to me and I look forward to it being binned.

Science not politics. Unless of course you mean the Politics of Science which is the problem and a contradiction in itself. .

And there you go, the reason we are having trouble in this World is because people just want to bin (binned!) things that are useful when they could just leave it alone and go and do something else!