Where have all the men gone

[Path Finder]

I have just been speaking with my friend JP, we often talk about the men in our society and where are they.

JP is doing a mentoring programme at the moment and there are only two men on the programme to support the young men of his area within Essex.

I often hear men complaining about our youth and why does the government not do something about their behaviour and we see on TV the results of their behaviour being acted out on our streets, what with knife crime etc.

And yet it is mostly women from all ethic backgrounds doing mentoring work I remember when I did it was mostly women but at that time there were more men. JP told me that the programme he is on said that the young men do not want to attend because they want male mentors.

So my challenge is this, our young men are crying out for good male role models so were are they why are we not stepping forward to help guide them, to show them right from wrong and to lead them by example.

I think its time we men started to behave like men and take up our rightful position we can not leave it all to the government etc.

There are of course men out there doing great work with our youth but I do believe we need a lot more.

If this has pushed any buttons for you then maybe it is worth taking a look at why if this has not pushed any buttons for you them maybe it is worth taking a look at why not.

With the best will in the world our young men need us, so come on guys step out and do it… you are more qualified than you know.

Best wishes

Geoffrey

 

[spamel]

Surely the parents should be doing this job? After all, they don't whinge when they get paid their Family Tax Credits, do they? It's about time people in this country started being responsible for the things they are meant to be responsible for. I have three daughters to bring up and cannot spare the time to sort somebody elses' kids out because they can't be bothered to and spend their life in the pub drinking their social money.

To my mind, involuntary castration and sterilisation is what is required. If you can't bring your kids up, you get the snip. Simple. It's time we stopped pandering to the people who want their arses wiped for them. They are grown ups and should start to take responsibility for their actions, or lose all benefits.

 

[CLEM]

Surely the parents should be doing this job? After all, they don't whinge when they get paid their Family Tax Credits, do they? It's about time people in this country started being responsible for the things they are meant to be responsible for. I have three daughters to bring up and cannot spare the time to sort somebody elses' kids out because they can't be bothered to and spend their life in the pub drinking their social money.

To my mind, involuntary castration and sterilisation is what is required. If you can't bring your kids up, you get the snip. Simple. It's time we stopped pandering to the people who want their arses wiped for them. They are grown ups and should start to take responsibility for their actions, or lose all benefits.

What he said!

 

[spamel]

If I keep this up, I could run for Governemnt and get a free house or two!

 

[Dan1982]

Surely you cannot help somebody who doesn't want to be helped!! i would say that 90% of the kids carrying knives on the street and causing crime etc.. would laugh off any attempts to offer them a sense of opportunity.

i personally feel that the softly softly approach has got this country nowhere and that maybe its time we explored other options!!

just my opinion!

 

[Toddy]

I worked an inner city scheme yesterday. Rough area, folks trying hard but there's not a lot going for them. One little boy I could have happily strangled, yet, he's never been taught that no means, "No!", that with courtesy comes respect and acceptance, everything is a gimme, why not, that's not fair, a demand and a grab,........his mother is just a child herself, and daddy is even younger, and granny and granpa are struggling with their own problems......the leaders at the youth club he attends are female, there are no competent (as in capably, responsible and thriving, working ) adult males in his life.
I may think his parents were too young and irresponsible to have a child, but, he's here, and things aren't going to improve if nothing is done. In ten years time he'll be a daddy himself if nothing and no one teaches him otherwise.

Sometimes it doesn't take much to break the cycle of repeated distress.

cheers,
Toddy

 

[crazyclimber]

I'm not sure I agree with some of what's been said here. In my experience there're both plenty of men working in voluntary roles with children and also plenty of opportunities available to those who want to take them. I've personally been involved as a civilian instructor for the Air Training Corps, help as a fencing coach and been involved in a scheme giving motivational / career discussions in schools. In all three there've been more male volunteers than female.
I'm not saying that's always the case of course, and I can sympathise with you Path Finder trying to get more men involved, but I do think it was a bit of a generalisation.

Now what really does irritate me sometimes is those kids who for some reason don't take the opportunities for bettering themselves that they're given, even after your best efforts at persuasion. BUT, so often IME it really is kids emulating their parents; though there're some god-awful kids around there're parents a hell of a lot worse! Not very PC maybe Spamel but i can't help but agree with you with "To my mind, involuntary castration and sterilisation is what is required. If you can't bring your kids up, you get the snip. Simple. It's time we stopped pandering to the people who want their arses wiped for them. They are grown ups and should start to take responsibility for their actions, or lose all benefits.". Having kids bears responsibility, if you can't hack it you shouldn't have kids, simple as that.

 

[British Red]

What he said!

And again - spot on Spam!

I get weary of the clap trap.

Setting a good example is, surely, working hard, caring for and providing for your family, giving a bit back to society in whatever form you choose, paying your taxes.

It is not excusing wasters who are too lazy or drug addled to get off there backsides and graft. Too many handouts are given to those who have done nothing to deserve it and too few to kids who work hard and keep their nose clean.

I'm really very very happy to go the extra mile and give time and money to a number of worthy causes. Ill disciplined urban yoof is not one

Red

 

[-Switch-]

I'd love to get involved with youth work and have looked into it in the past. Unfortunately my job prevents me from doing so as I'm required to be on call, off and on, 24 hours a day.

The last thing these kids need is another unreliable male role model in their lives.

 

[Lurch]

Blokes volunteering get accused of being kiddie fiddlers.
Plus rampant fabianism means that male viewpoints aren't welcome.
Sow the wind and you shall reap the whirlwind.

 

[Wayland]

Snip>

To my mind, involuntary castration and sterilisation is what is required. If you can't bring your kids up, you get the snip. Simple. It's time we stopped pandering to the people who want their arses wiped for them. They are grown ups and should start to take responsibility for their actions, or lose all benefits.

I seem to recall "Eugenics" has been tried before and wasn't very popular.

 

[dommyracer]

Blokes volunteering get accused of being kiddie fiddlers.
Plus rampant fabianism means that male viewpoints aren't welcome.
Sow the wind and you shall reap the whirlwind.

I agree on the first point, but I think the second is off mark. Youth groups that deal with kids (particularly boys) are complaining of the lack of male influence.

 

[-Switch-]

I agree on the first point, but I think the second is off mark. Youth groups that deal with kids (particularly boys) are complaining of the lack of male influence.

I was going to say something similar but decided not to. But seeing it's been mentioned...

It is very difficult for an adult male to get volunteer work with kids. His motives are always questioned and if a woman of the same qualifications and availability applies for the same position then she will invariably get the job.

Men just aren't trusted.

Of course this is purely my opinion based on my own experiances and subjective evidence from others, but I think a lot of guys will be feeling the same

 

[Matt Weir]

It's not just the 'hoodies' that are an issue. In fact, picture a group or gang of typical teens and it invariably conjures up an image of trouble. The reality is that individually these kids just kids and in order to feel safe and accepted within their own group will try to act the part. The whole hoody/tracksuit stereotype image is just that, an image that kids just wear so as to fit in, a fashion. From puberty kids start to get a sense of themselves and the urge to belong and to fit in with their peers is crucial.

I myself have grown up in an area that whilst not comparable to some of the dodgier parts of Manchester - in fact it's pretty decent - has it's issues like every traditionally working class area does.

I do believe that the study and practice of bushcraft and primitive living strips all that modern carp away and allows not only kids but everyone to learn values that have been forgotten by today's society so anyone who can step up to the challenge is indeed 'a man'.

 

[crazyclimber]

I was going to say something similar but decided not to. But seeing it's been mentioned...

It is very difficult for an adult male to get volunteer work with kids. His motives are always questioned and if a woman of the same qualifications and availability applies for the same position then she will invariably get the job.

Men just aren't trusted.

Of course this is purely my opinion based on my own experiances and subjective evidence from others, but I think a lot of guys will be feeling the same

I think there's a very valid point there... in addition I know there've been a few people, male and female, who've expressed interest in helping out in different ways but get very put off by the whole CRB experience. It is a shame when you consider the amount they could contribute to young people and compare it with the minute risk to children they statistically pose, of course children should be protected but I do think the media should take some of the blame for blowing it out of all proportion

 

[rozinante]

I seem to recall "Eugenics" has been tried before and wasn't very popular.

A timely and apt reminder.

Unfortunately though it did prove to be very popular and not only with the obvious and most inhuman regimes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_sterilization

As a newcomer I don't want to fall out already but I can't believe people are seriously suggesting that we allow the state to decide whose genes are worthy of being permitted to reproduce. I share many of the frustrations and concerns about our degenerating society but surely such brutal inhumanity is not the way forward

 

[sandbender]

Sometimes it doesn't take much to break the cycle of repeated distress.

I have been a supporter of the charity 'Kids Company' for some years now, they deal with some of the worst cases of childhood neglect, some these kids are literally 'feral'.

And before all the 'eugenics fans' out there start to complain about the 'softly softly' approach described in the article below, independent audits have found that nearly eighty-seven percent of children enrolled at the Kidsco centers do not re-offend and are helped back into education and employment, show me any knee jerk government response that can come close to those figures.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...under-their-pillows-834553.html?startindex=10

 

[robin wood]

I've personally been involved as a civilian instructor for the Air Training Corps, help as a fencing coach and been involved in a scheme giving motivational / career discussions in schools. In all three there've been more male volunteers than female.
I'm not saying that's always the case of course, and I can sympathise with you Path Finder trying to get more men involved, but I do think it was a bit of a generalisation.

Interesting to haear some personal experience on the matter, sound like these three roles are dealing with older teans? and I am not surprised that there are more males in fencing and the air training corps. I am surprised though that there are so few involved say in forest schools (maybe 10 percent male?).

nearly eighty-seven percent of children

would that be roughly 86.5 percent?

I can see both sides of this argument. Its not just scummy, towny, hoody yobs that are suffering a lack of male role models. Pop into your local primary school and tell me the proportion of male teachers there, how many of us know honest hard working parents who don't see their sons until the weekend because they are home late from long hours and commuting.

For anyone interested in this issue, whether for their own kids or the good of the community as a whole I could heartily recomend the book "raising boys" by Steve Bidulph. Manhood by the same author is an eye opener too. Look at how an african boy becomes a man, all the adult male input. By comparison British teenagers learn primarily from their own peer group.

I see the problem but I am not rushing out to get qualified as a primary school teacher myself, though I have total respect for anyone who does.

 

[Silverback]

I unfortunately have made the concious decision to invest my precious little spare time in raising my own children and when I am not doing that I am out grafting to provide the best possible life for them that I can. I can remember wanting children when I was as young as sixteen but had to wait until I was 31 before the dream came true however I have never been under any illusion as to the amount of time and effort required in their upbringing. I know of people who for various reasons can have no children of their own but would make wonderful parents and it sickens me that there are others who are given such a wonderful gift and totally abuse it. Well said Spamel and Red - With Great Children comes Great Responsibility!

 

[British Red]

It is a thorny debate this one isn't it?

I think my difficulty is mainly one of priority and fairness. Now don't get me wrong, I'm all for the more fortunate amongst us giving of both time and money. Indeed when BB and I discussed our charitable efforts a number of years ago we had a long and very far ranging debate

Should we give what we could to local, national or international causes?
Should we try to allieviate immediate suffering or support groups who were aiming for long term resolutions?
Should we try to plug gaps in government funding of address areas they do not cover?
Should we give regularly allowing "structured aid" or responsively to events?
Should we target individuals trying to make a difference to one life directly or more generally trying to make a contribution to a wider cause.

In the end our choices were to support four causes regularly and others either because we were moved to do so or at certain times of year.

We selected:

One medical charity to assist in trying to find cures (Cancer)
One responsive charity to help with unforseen disasters (The Red Cross)
One personally focussed charity trying to help the worlds truly needy (We sponsor two children in the same Ethiopian Village)
One UK charity try to assist the most genuinely vulnerable in the UK (Shelter)

We also support ex-Service groups and some local initiatives on a less structured but more personal footing.

Why do I raise this? Only because in my opinion (and my opinion only), all the charities mentioned address more valid causes than modern "youth" who are housed, fed and educated and commit crime through greed, apathy or even the lack of role model.

I guess every persons priorities are different but Path Finder asked why "youth" does not push my buttons as a charitable need. The answer is simple. In a world where my resources (time and money) are limited, there are simply far more deserving causes.

Red