War Archer!
- Thread starter sandbender
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You can thank the Germans for them not having to do so.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Lechfeld_(955)
Also, possibly Batu Khan's drinking problem, although many dispute that the Mongols would ever have come any further west anyway.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_invasion_of_Europe
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Umm. That's what he said; that sights weren't developed until after they moved the arrows to the left side. Ergo it would HAVE TO predate sights.
Actually you wait in a tree stand. Unless you're hunting small game or waterfowl.
Why? so the arrow has something to rest on to stop it falling to the ground?
In that case why are his arrows not falling off and missing the target when he is hanging upside down?
And why did mine not fall off and hit the ground on Saturday when I was shooting right handed with the bow tilted to the right (probably out of sheer habit) with the arrow on the left underneath the bow?
That doesn't negate what you are saying because you are talking about heavy poundage and he uses 30/35 lb bows and I was using a kids decathlon 10lb bow, but I would have thought the laws of gravity regarding the arrow dropping would not be influence by the bow poundage.
As well as Waylands reply you may be interested to read about the Parthians. (Where we get the phrase "The Parting Shot"). Both they and the Monguls used similar bow techniques. The Wiki link is HERE and the entomology about the phrase is HERE
Massed ranks of archers have had a huge effect on European history as stated by others but the serried ranks of English archers seem to dominate most history books, probably due to their effect as a force multiplier.
He is probably 'pinching' the nock. Not great for precise shooting but it's possible to get away with it.
With a heavy draw weight you will be putting all finger strength into pulling the string and won't be able to pinch the nock.
I've successfully shot birds by holding my bow out in front of me, arrow pointing up and pulling down towards the ground with right hand. But that's shooting something small, not requiring any power. A 'trick' shot. Not applicable to being a 'war archer'.
With a heavy draw weight you will be putting all finger strength into pulling the string and won't be able to pinch the nock.
I've successfully shot birds by holding my bow out in front of me, arrow pointing up and pulling down towards the ground with right hand. But that's shooting something small, not requiring any power. A 'trick' shot. Not applicable to being a 'war archer'.
Must admit I'm a bit confused about the references to penetrating armour
Given the range and number of men fighting during the reign of the bow surely only a small percentage were actually armoured
Plenty of slave armies, battling tribesmen, conscripts, and horses must have gone to war in nothing more than the only clothes they owned
And made up the bulk of that armies numbers
If you are a troop of horse archers harassing the flanks of a marching/charging block of peasants you wont need much power to take
A man out of the fight, rate of fire would be more important I would think
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There was actually some lunatics in the ancient world that went into battle naked, as a kind of shock and awe tactic
A 30lb bow from 20 feet would do enough damage to my bare bottom to put me off running for the rest of the day I tell thee lol
Given the range and number of men fighting during the reign of the bow surely only a small percentage were actually armoured
Plenty of slave armies, battling tribesmen, conscripts, and horses must have gone to war in nothing more than the only clothes they owned
And made up the bulk of that armies numbers
If you are a troop of horse archers harassing the flanks of a marching/charging block of peasants you wont need much power to take
A man out of the fight, rate of fire would be more important I would think
*edit
There was actually some lunatics in the ancient world that went into battle naked, as a kind of shock and awe tactic
A 30lb bow from 20 feet would do enough damage to my bare bottom to put me off running for the rest of the day I tell thee lol
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In the wikipedia entry for the Battle of Augsburg that I liked ealier it mentions that one of the key leaders on the German side the Duke of Lorraine loosened his armour and mail during the battle because of the summer heat and promptly died after an arrow was shot through his neck.
I was talking of heavy cloth and leather. Loose, thick layers are remarkable good at stopping an arrow or the slash of a blade.
It's surprising how little of this is needed to stop an arrow. You need a heavy bodkin point to ensure penetration.
Back when I was hunting with a bow my father bred and trained racehorses. I tried some old worn horse blankets (heavy canvas with a second layer of blanket) as a backdrop. They'd even stop broadheads coming out of a 60lb flatbow. Field points didn't penetrate.
These were arrows that would easily go through an oildrum.
It's surprising how little of this is needed to stop an arrow. You need a heavy bodkin point to ensure penetration.
Back when I was hunting with a bow my father bred and trained racehorses. I tried some old worn horse blankets (heavy canvas with a second layer of blanket) as a backdrop. They'd even stop broadheads coming out of a 60lb flatbow. Field points didn't penetrate.
These were arrows that would easily go through an oildrum.
You can keep an arrow on the bow by applying pressure to the nock with your string hand with normal weight arrows. Becomes much harder with an Tudor type elb arrow as they are like a log with a pointy end in comparison. Not saying it cant be done just would be hard work. That and these guys were not picking out one guys fod at 250 yards rather just him there and one of his mates if not
That makes a lot of sense. In the earlier video it is more explicit about only doing a half draw.
We were talking about the earlier video and RichieN doubted about the power a half draw would produce.......until his archery instructor pulled him up about havng the bow "loaded" and said 3" draw was enough to cause a injury if accidentally released.
It's a much better video with the sound turned off.
basically, his history and his interpretation is somewhat suspect (to say the least), but he's certainly got talent at shooting stuff from a few yards away. He's also got a talented film editor.
The mail armour he shot looked like butted rings as opposed to riveted, which is much easier to penetrate
basically, his history and his interpretation is somewhat suspect (to say the least), but he's certainly got talent at shooting stuff from a few yards away. He's also got a talented film editor.
The mail armour he shot looked like butted rings as opposed to riveted, which is much easier to penetrate
I'd read about this in literature but never seen it tested before, using loose silk sheets to protects against arrows whilst retreating.
[video=youtube;nb1WcI9TNXw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nb1WcI9TNXw[/video]
I wish I'd watched it with the sound turned off!
Did he back the mail armour with heavy wadded clothing? People forget that 'armour' included something even more solid than a modern fencing jacket. Wealthy people had mail or plate on top of that.
I mentioned a horse blanket upthread. From my brief checking, a 'gambeson' would have been equivalent to multiple layers of horse blankets.
Did he back the mail armour with heavy wadded clothing? People forget that 'armour' included something even more solid than a modern fencing jacket. Wealthy people had mail or plate on top of that.
I mentioned a horse blanket upthread. From my brief checking, a 'gambeson' would have been equivalent to multiple layers of horse blankets.
I remember watching a program where they had chain mail, padding and a silk liner underneath everything. The mail and padding slowed the arrow down and the silk caught the arrow and became twisted round the point, the combination of everything seemed to take most of the force from the arrow so instead of it going right in and killing it maybe just went in a little and was painful / potential lethal [maybe due to infections later etc] but not immediately so.
I can't remember the program though...
I can't remember the program though...
By us I assumed us, that it didn't mean the whole of Europe so "English Archers" was relevant.. As I understand it was the mobility and superior logistics on favourable ground that helped the Mongol etc horse archers to victories. But did they ever massacre an opponent army with archery alone or even mostly? Heat, thirst, disorganisation, and of course the archers, opened up the medieval army to a final attack by heavy cavalry. Given a well supplied base or a moving wagon fort such as the Russians developed and it could be a different story. Running out of grazing put a natural stop to their attacks into Western Europe.
Static archery being a no no is a very strange idea. Of course all archers moved, in various manoeuvres. A mobile opponent doesn't mean the person shooting at them has to move but thousands of cavorting archers on foot beggars belief.
Static archery being a no no is a very strange idea. Of course all archers moved, in various manoeuvres. A mobile opponent doesn't mean the person shooting at them has to move but thousands of cavorting archers on foot beggars belief.
Rumour 9 layers of silk is enough to stop a bullet. Obviously while the 9th layer of silk won't be a mess, whatever is behind it will be.
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