War Archer!

[Joe tahkahikew]

I started watching the vid and had to stop. what a load of twaddle. Back quivers are useless? Um, I used to hunt a lot, you don't run around when hunting, you stalk, slowly and silently. Back quivers work just fine. North American natives used them - sometimes with covers.

The 'fast draw and loose' is very clever, very impressive, but he isn't doing a full draw. Those arrows would not have the momentum to penetrate medium to large game and certainly not heavy clothing (let alone armour).

Anyone who has shot a heavy-poundage bow knows that the biometrics of the human body mean it is easier (for right-handed archer) to draw with the top of the bow canted to the right. Ergo (disregarding mechanics of the release), you need the arrow on the left of the bow.

The last american indian living 'wild' was a Yahi from california called Ishi. (died around 1914) He used bows which had a pull of around 60lb I think and he used thumb draw which was pretty rare over this side and he also fired with the arrow on the right side of the bow. And like many natives americans and canadians the bow was often held at an angle unlike the pictures I've seen of guys firing longbows.

wadji!

 

[bambodoggy]

He is probably 'pinching' the nock. Not great for precise shooting but it's possible to get away with it.

With a heavy draw weight you will be putting all finger strength into pulling the string and won't be able to pinch the nock.

I don't think they use their fingers for pulling the string...they use their thumb (often with a thumb ring) with their index finger wrapped over the end of their thumb nail to support/lock it in place....at the same time the middle finger of the same hand can rest gently against the side of the arrow to hold it in place against the bow (on the right hand side). All is then released at the same time.

Hope that explains it, easy to show hard to write

 

[boatman]

Its an old reenactment "fact" that Mongols wore silk next to the skin so that if an arrow penetrated it might not cut the silk but carry it into the wound making it easier to extract the head.
An early "bulletproof" neck cape was made of silk and such garments could be effective but according to the Osprey book Flak jackets would deteriorate under trench conditions.

 

[santaman2000]

The last american indian living 'wild' was a Yahi from california called Ishi. (died around 1914).....

Depends on just how you define "American" Indian. Does it include the natives of both American continents? If so, there are still undiscovered "American Indian" peoples living wild in South America

 

[Joe tahkahikew]

OK, The USA!

 

[mrcharly]

I don't think they use their fingers for pulling the string...they use their thumb (often with a thumb ring) with their index finger wrapped over the end of their thumb nail to support/lock it in place....at the same time the middle finger of the same hand can rest gently against the side of the arrow to hold it in place against the bow (on the right hand side). All is then released at the same time.

Hope that explains it, easy to show hard to write

that is clear, thanks for the explanation.

 

[Joe tahkahikew]

http://www.archeryhistory.com/archers/pics/ishi.jpg

You can just see how Ishi held both the bow and the arrow.

There are lots of other Ishi pictures if you look on google images for ishi+bow

wadgi

 

[mountainm]

OK - we're getting nowhere with Longbow V Horse bow.

How about Spectrum V Commodore? Which is better? There's only one way to find out....

 

[sandbender]

OK - we're getting nowhere with Longbow V Horse bow.

How about Spectrum V Commodore? Which is better? There's only one way to find out....

Commodore, obviously.

 

[samharber]

Commodore, obviously.

Obviously. If you're comparing it with the 16k instead of the 48k

 

[mountainm]

Obviously. If you're comparing it with the 16k instead of the 48k

Puh - lease - 128k +3

Speccy had the best games.

 

[Wayne]

Interesting the reaction from some of the archery communities. The chap invokes strong reactions whilst the video makes a few wild statements i think speed shooting has merit. I have made my fair share of bows and shot plenty of arrows to know that a 35lb bow with the right arrow will happily spoil your day.

 

[boatman]

Any 35lb draw weight bows regularly used in war? Of course a bow of any weight can be dangerous.

 

[Swallow]

Puh - lease - 128k +3

Speccy had the best games.

:yikes::yikes::yikes::yikes:

 

[Wayne]

Any 35lb draw weight bows regularly used in war? Of course a bow of any weight can be dangerous.

I have put an arrow from a 35lb draw weight bow through a brand new bullet proof vest. Draw weight is only one factor is how the the energy is transferred to an arrow.

We have a slight obsession unnecessarily with stupidly heavy draw weight long bows. I blame the Mary Rose

 

[boatman]

You may have but the question was when in history. I would agree that massive weight is not essential but 35 still seems too low.

 

[Wayne]

None of the Japanese bows I have handled have been particularly heavy. The Bhutanese and Nepalese bows I have shot have been around 45-55 mark. Most of the native bows I have looked haven't been particularly heavy. So I suggest that seriously heavy draw weight bows are most likely used by static archers shooting in artillery style formations. Just a hypothesis. As we have so few historic bows to examine its very difficult to come to firm conclusions.

 

[santaman2000]

None of the Japanese bows I have handled have been particularly heavy. The Bhutanese and Nepalese bows I have shot have been around 45-55 mark......

45-55 is the common weight for hunting bows. Indeed, it was only a 75 pound recurve that Fred Bear used to kill an elephant.

 

[bambodoggy]

We have a slight obsession unnecessarily with stupidly heavy draw weight long bows. I blame the Mary Rose

Agreed....and when used in formation as a form of gatling gun at distance against armoured knights then heavy draw weights make sense but not on a fast moving horse.

I blame the fact that the Mongols, Parthians etc all had a shed load of horses to use.......in Europe at that time, horses where the preserve of the rich so better to train peasants to knock rich people off their horses long before they got close enough to hurt you than to shell out buying your peasants a horse each

Just two styles of archery for two different purposes so can't really be compared on an equal footing

 

[dwardo]

You may have but the question was when in history. I would agree that massive weight is not essential but 35 still seems too low.

Its ugly but bows that I would guess could be even lower than that are still used in modern times in "warfare" Look up African, mainly Kenyan war tribes that use all sorts of bow designs in battle. From spring loaded/wooden hybrids to trad looking bows. Not going to post links as its easy enough to research and has a typical grizzly warlike outcome.

Take a razor sharp broad head on a 10 grains per pound arrow and drop it from shoulder height onto your foot, I wouldnt and thats just gravity..

If the point is sharp enough then poundage can be very little. Also much more than just raw poundage is efficiency which includes arrow weight.