the versitility of a small knife and batton

[Siberianfury]

in this video i take down a large tree limb for a lean too shelter, using a BG bushcrafter and a batton, since i learned how to do this i have had no need to carry an axe except for rough carving.

[video=youtube;Jf_BaKrNidw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jf_BaKrNidw[/video]

 

[JonathanD]

I love my knife and have been honing my skills to make that tool all I need. I don't use my saws, axes or SAKs anymore when I'm in the woods, my knife can do it all. The more I use it, the more I learn. The only real skill you need then, is blade maintenance in the field.

 

[Siberianfury]

they are both sharp blade, capable of doing the same tasks as each other, the knife for versitility and precision, the axe for weight and cutting power.

 

[JonathanD]

they are both sharp blade, capable of doing the same tasks as each other, the knife for versitility and precision, the axe for weight and cutting power.

Exactly. It's replicating the weight of the axe that can be tough. In the UK, the only tool you really need is a good knife IMO. Although axes and saws make life easier. I like to do as much as possible without.

 

[Peter_t]

if there is lots of work to do you cannot replace an axe but sometimes you can get by with just a knife. just be carefull because if you are cutting oak or something with hard knots it is easy to roll the knifes edge or chip it. a knife does have its limits but i do find there is a feeling of freedom when all you have is a knife in your pocket rather than lugging around an axe.

there is an easier way to fell saplings and coppice.
bend the the sapling over as close to the ground as posable (so not to waste timber) then all you have to do us cut through the bend. if you rock the knife it sometimes helps or even use a batton on big bits.

you will be suprised to well this works. when you bend the sapling you are stretching the wood fibers so they can be severed easily just like cutting tort string.

also please to not swipe at young shoots sorry but there is just no need.


pete

 

[Stew]

That's not a small knife.....this is a small knife.

A while back someone was moaning about small knives being useless or something like that. I thought I would explore how big of a task you could do with one.

This one is for Pete:



If it's too thick to bend then yes, batonning.



Personally I think that would be the thickest size bit of wood you would need for a shelter.

Small survival kit knives aren't a waste of time.

 

[Siberianfury]

edge rolling, yeah i agree its a problem on zero grinds, i tend to microbevel and then strop, keeps the edge in a bit beter condition.

 

[FGYT]

yep small knives are pretty much all you need if you know what your doing .

my main user is my 3/4 scale neck blade I have to remember to use a full size bushy

only time i find its not enough is places like the wilderness gathering where fire wood is now scarce on the ground and a saw is needed to collect a large fallen trunk

its also why im probably goting to sell my Cegga Axe (still cant quite let it go )

ATB

Duncan

 

[Tjurved]

I find it alot more fun to use an axe!

 

[SouthernCross]

G'day Josh

Do you have any pics that give a clearer look at the knife you used?



Kind regards
Mick

 

[Siberianfury]

G'day Josh

Do you have any pics that give a clearer look at the knife you used?



Kind regards
Mick

here you go mate,

 

[SouthernCross]

Thank you Josh



Kind regards
Mick

 

[memorire]

Hi everybody,

my question is basically in the title Why not take a saw with you if you dont want to carry an axe (even a sak saw would be enough to take that tree down) and dont bother batoning? You would waste less energy and would actually be able to do work faster with a saw. You wont have problems with a rolled edge either I am really not trolling I just try to understand why would someone want to limit his options when there is a more elegant solution?

cheers

 

[JonathanD]

Hi everybody,

my question is basically in the title Why not take a saw with you if you dont want to carry an axe (even a sak saw would be enough to take that tree down) and dont bother batoning? You would waste less energy and would actually be able to do work faster with a saw. You wont have problems with a rolled edge either I am really not trolling I just try to understand why would someone want to limit his options when there is a more elegant solution?

cheers

I don't think it is a case of limiting your options, but more to do with limiting your load and enhancing skills with the use of one tool. That is the art of bushcraft - carry less, know more.

 

[memorire]

I don't think it is a case of limiting your options, but more to do with limiting your load and enhancing skills with the use of one tool. That is the art of bushcraft - carry less, know more.

I am sorry Sir, but I have to disagree with you there. I dont think that batoning down a tree has anything remotly to do with bushcrafting. To me it is more survival, a situation where you are limited to one tool and have to find ways to use it for purposes it was not designed for.
Every bushcraft teacher (starting with Nessmuk who is considered the "go light" philosophy granddaddy) recommends to carry an axe or a saw exactly for the tasks that a knife is not the best tool for. I also like to go light, but the whole point of buschraft is not to do survive but to be comfortable in the woods and thrive there. And not just for a day or two but if needed for long periods of time. And I just cant see how it would be possible without any axe or a saw. Yes, in England (and in Germany for that matter) the is no real need t carry an axe in the woods. But a saw is much lighter then an axe, is way more useful than a knife when it comes down to cutting trees or thick branches and I believe is more bushcrafty in its essence since you can do the aforementioned jobs comfortably and with less danger for your tools than with just a knife.
I agree with you that knowledge is the real art of bushcraft, and to know which tool to use for a specific task (as well as having it with you) is as vital as to know how to substitute tools for each other if you happen to loose or break one.

Everything IMHO of course

cheers

 

[JonathanD]

That being true and taken into account though, it must also be remembered that alot of modern day bushcraft knives are deigned with batoning in mind. I have no need for an axe to go with me when I'm shrafting in the UK 99% of the time, but when I do need to cut a tree down and I havn't got an axe, this skill is invaluable and negates the chore of carrying around my axe just in case I do need it.

 

[jonnie drake]

I would like to see someone take down the same tree with a SAK saw just as fast as josh with his BG... I find saws quite inefficent at times compared to knives.

 

[leon-1]

Strange thread in some ways. It's a skill and one that is probably practiced less than it should be.

A lot of Bushcraft instructors will tell you that an axe is very much the tool for the job though.

Mors has a lot of time for axes and their correct use, he does also show this method of taking down a tree with a knife and he will also say about carrying a saw blade. I asked if he would consider carrying a small folding saw and his reply was "Yes, it makes it easier to make a bucksaw".

I got the general opinion that familiarity with various tools and the subsequent use of them was more important than what you were carrying, because then you could use anything if it came to it.

 

[memorire]

I would like to see someone take down the same tree with a SAK saw just as fast as josh with his BG... I find saws quite inefficent at times compared to knives.

How do you know how long it took? AFAICS there are enough cuts in the video so you dont actually know how much time it took exactly. But speed was never my point either I agree with you, that particular tree is pretty much the limit for a SAK saw, but with a decent folding saw you can do it in no time.

I have no need for an axe to go with me when I'm shrafting in the UK 99% of the time, but when I do need to cut a tree down and I havn't got an axe, this skill is invaluable and negates the chore of carrying around my axe just in case I do need it.

Carry a saw You can fall bigger trees with it than with a knife and it weights almost nothing



Another question to the TS, was there a reason for falling a perfectly healthy tree other than to make a video? And cutting the little saplings around it?

cheers

 

[memorire]

I got the general opinion that familiarity with various tools and the subsequent use of them was more important than what you were carrying, because then you could use anything if it came to it.

Golden words!

Btw if you are referring to his method from the book I believe it did not involve batoning

cheers