Rip My Canoe Kit apart

[Robson Valley]

I would expect to need to be standing up and walking around on a tug boat, a work boat. I'd wear a PFD, too.
The first canoe lesson was: don't stand up if you can possibly avoid it.
The Chestnut 21' was office, lab and lunch room, all dang day, 6 days a week for months on end, for fisheries research.
Unparalleled stability at 5' wide.
I grew up as a kid on the Canadian prairies. The Jet Stream delivers arctic air in a northwest to southeast direction.
Draw a line from Edmonton to Winnipeg to get the idea.
Several weeks every winter at -40F ( = -40C) has it's own set of coping skills when you live in it.

 

[rorymax]

Thanks for the video link Joe, I really enjoyed it all.

rorymax

 

[Robson Valley]

Would just love me one of these!

http://www.thebay.com/webapp/wcs/st...1product1day&site_refer=DIS_FBDPA_1P_0_1_VPAC

 

[Mesquite]

I think, scratch that, I know Joe has experience and knowledge that equals the rest of us combined.
Myself and the other Scandi members know probably more about the Sub Arctic than you guys, but in a "leisure one"way.
We do it for fun, Joe does it as a way of life.

That statement is true but only if you quantify it with 'In his environment' which is the northern climes.

Put him in a rainforest and he'd have good skills but no knowledge of edible plants etc.

Same goes for you.

 

[Robson Valley]

Travelling on the northern rivers, there's not much time for hand-to-mouth foraging.
Maybe a minute or two resting on a real grunt of a portage, but everybody does that so there won't be much left.
Strawberries, rasperries, blueberries, Saskatoons, but they all seasonal.

I forage for Saskatoon berries (Amelanchier sp). Working as fast as I can, stripping over a tarp, I can pick about
5lbs per hour and clean about 10lbs per hour. 27lbs cleaned, washed, scaled and frozen in 2015. All gone now!

 

[Joe tahkahikew]

I think you should have a PDF too, essential when on the water.

Many lives have been lost because people didnt have lifejackets. Dont think it unmanly to wear one. You wear motorcycle helmets and other safety gear?

..
I hate to use the analogy, but I'm going to anyway... its like the fanatical arab nations who proclaim everything in the West is the work of the devil... well, except for the Toyota Landcruiser... and well, the AK47... and maybe laptops... oh and the internet... and if pushed, but without much persuasion, Twitter.

Juxtaposition joboscity??

Tegu. Many lives have been lost by not wearing life jackets. Mostly on fishing boats both here and in the UK - no fisherman I saw on big fishing boats in yorkshire used them either. And there are no motorbikes up here either - and only a few dirt roads. But no bother

I don';t think I have opposing views. I'm not trying to tell anyone what they should or should not use. Only what I use.

So please tell me why do people not wear life jackets on ships and boats in the UK when I know they sometimes sink?

 

[Janne]

That statement is true but only if you quantify it with 'In his environment' which is the northern climes.

Put him in a rainforest and he'd have good skills but no knowledge of edible plants etc.

Same goes for you.

Of course, but his environment is very similar to what we have in Scandinavia, and not dissimilar to the British Isles.

I would last about 5 minutes in a desert, maybe 10 minutes in a rain forest. Taiga? Months. Done it. Enjoyed it.
I know maybe 5 edible plants, plus all edible berries. 30 or so edible fungi.

 

[Joe tahkahikew]

Hi Joe,


Im curious as to how many years you've been making this trip as I'm guessing it's quite a few. I wonder if your kit lost has changed much over that time.

I can't remember, nor can I remember the first time in a canoe. Probably as a baby. When I was a young man I went with my cousin on long canoe trips to explore rivers and places I did not know existed and far beyond our hunting territories, maybe away for months at a time just paddling from one river to one lake and more and living off the land.

Now I spend much of every spring summer and fall using canoes to travel our lakes and rivers. Walking is only an option in winter when there is snow & ice.

If you have a look at the film from NFB I posted you'll see how we use the canoe. I've done many, many trips like the one I listed my kit for.

My kit list is much the same, Just different materials etc., Some modern clothing is generally easier to make, repair and replace. Making a jacket out of caribou hide is hard work, takes a long time is difficult and skilled but has some benefits over modern stuff.

 

[dewi]

So please tell me why do people not wear life jackets on ships and boats in the UK when I know they sometimes sink?

In fairness, pfds are recommended to fishermen over here and they're recommended in the safety courses that are mandatory for British fishermen. The organisations in charge of safety have issued thousands of pfds to fishermen, but they don't tend to use them... it's a bit like roofers over here who refuse to wear harnesses. Probably a myriad of excuses to why neither profession likes the health and safety slant on their working lives, but the common excuse is that the safety equipment is cumbersome and makes the job more dangerous. Whether that's true or not, probably the only way to get fishermen to wear pfds is to make it mandatory, but then how do the authorities enforce it when the boats have left shore?

Bit of a difference between a commercial fishing boat and a canoe though... but its your choice Joe. My bias, and it is bias, is due to the fact I struggle swimming on the surface. I'm like a fish underwater, but on the surface I've been told I swim like a dog... and I struggle... so a pfd would probably save my life if I was canoeing in a fast flowing river. Not much chance of me diving below the surface to get back to shore.

Then again, much like the FAK... if I needed first aid when out and about I'd have no clue what plants would help/heal. You'd know what to do, and I suspect if you capsized in the river, you'd know exactly what to do as well. Horses for courses.

Side note... was having a natter with a mate of mine about the whole first nations thing... seems we have very different cultural views. Here in the UK we've been invaded, enslaved and ruled over by dozens of other nations... the nomadic lifestyle of the Briton ended probably a couple of thousand years ago and with the advent of technologies like the railways, local crafts have diminished rapidly over the past 200 years. As I say, the homeland of my family doesn't exist any more... swallowed up by the Dutch and the Germans... and the village, its basically tarmac now. The closest we have to first nationers is probably a few families in Northern Scotland... the people who settled here 10 to 15 thousand years ago have disappeared along with their crafts, their culture and even their names. The tribes that the Romans didn't wipe off the historical map weren't as lucky when the Vikings arrived, and the remaining probably got bloody noses when the Normans appeared... so the culture that remains is roast beef, a few specialised crafts and the occasional burial mound. Even the Scots can't claim any historical significance to their traditions given the tartan was an 18th century invention, the haggis being the cultural dish of another nation, much like the bagpipes being an instrument from another culture. The things we associate as Scottish now wouldn't be recognised by ancient Scots.

My point is, we have a long history in this country (and across Europe), but the term first nation doesn't really work here and is a bit alien (or certainly it is to me)... but I guess culturally you're different and it makes sense to you. Ask ten people on the street what they define as British culture, you'd probably get ten different answers... and if the recent referendum tantrums were anything to go by, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the answers to how to define our culture were met with some very unusual answers.

 

[Robson Valley]

Useful perspective to me. Thanks dewi.

Joe's ancestors walked here from Asia, some 15,000 - 25,000 years ago, depends on who's counting.
Joe's more recent ancestors made the jump from a Neolithic life, straight into the iron age.
My people sailed from the UK some time in the 1700's.
Joe is First. I'm second. I like to think that I share his love of the landscape.

 

[Janne]

I guess we could call the Neanderthals as 1:st nation in Europe?
But after them it has been the same type of people living in Europe. The waves of invasions and conquests are people culturally separated,, not much Genetically different. Saxon, Celt, Norman, Viking - different cultures but virtually genetically the same people.
Of course we have been enhanced by the North Africans, Mongols, the Semitic people from Middle East, but not much.

The North Americans are also separated by cultures, they too have been invaded, enslaved, even exterminated.

So, Dewi, yes you are a European First Nation if we only consider Homo Sapiens Sapiens

 

[dewi]

I guess we could call the Neanderthals as 1:st nation in Europe?
But after them it has been the same type of people living in Europe. The waves of invasions and conquests are people culturally separated,, not much Genetically different. Saxon, Celt, Norman, Viking - different cultures but virtually genetically the same people.
Of course we have been enhanced by the North Africans, Mongols, the Semitic people from Middle East, but not much.

The North Americans are also separated by cultures, they too have been invaded, enslaved, even exterminated.

So, Dewi, yes you are a European First Nation if we only consider Homo Sapiens Sapiens

That's illogical though... we're all Homo Sapiens and following your path of culture, that makes Joe of Asian descent who's ancestors happened to walk a bit further than their neighbours.

By first nation, as I understand it, its got nothing to do with biology and everything to do with culture. Otherwise why the distinction?

More so, Neanderthals and Homo Sapiens co-existed along with other species, not just in Europe but across the world... so neither is first nation.... neither was first. You could argue that Homo Sapiens were superior in that they outlived the other species, but that would be arguing for the sake of it.

Culturally Europe was very different thousands of years ago... take just one small pocket of England, home to the Iceni... producers of amazingly intricate metal work and culturally different from any other tribe in what is now known as England. They disappeared when they rose against the Romans, along with the tribes who occupied other areas of Britain, and their culture, skills and knowledge went with them. The Scandinavians split Britain in half, furthering the cultural divide and the French changed the cultural landscape forever when they wrote the book on who owns what.

Culture and race are completely different. Ultimately Joe is a descendant of an Asian race, but would he share common cultural practises with the Japanese? He's as far removed from his origins as the current occupants of Britain are from their ancestors.

 

[Janne]

You have a point, but the Amerindians themselves have moved around, developed different cultures, conquered and destroyed those.
Just like we have done in Europe.
The Amerindian is not one culture, and has never been. I would think that is the reason they are called First Nations ( pluralis).
But ehat are they called outside Canada?
If we are not First Nations, what are we then?

H. Neanderthals were in Europe before us. H. erectus was the first Homo race that emigrated from Afrika, and evolved. Heidelbergensis after them.
It is thought both the Neander and us evolved from Heidelberg man. Or was thought 25 years sgo, not dure what the lstest DNA research show.
Yes, there were several paralell Homo races, Neanderthal, Flores.., Erectus, S. Denisovans, Sapiens Sapiens,

Btw, the Normans were Frenchised Vikings. Nordmenn.

 

[Leshy]

Way off topic...
The point of this thread was to analyse this man's kit and compare it to our needs etc.

Sure, when you know your environment so well you need less kit and due to culture differences we tend to carry more , such as pfd's and other stuff.
The differences in kit are just interesting and should be just that!
No point of going into the origin of the peoples , their approach or the part of the world they come from. Are they , are they not is just irrelevant.

The reason they prefer to be called first nations is because they were already there , thriving, when the white man arrived.

The white man destroyed their way of life and killed many.
Additionally, with great disregard, the new arrivals, pushed them out of their land , killed and tricked , lied and stole their way into dominance .

These were very spiritual people , totally connected and dependent on the natural environment around them .
They didn't speak with "forked tongues" like the white man , and they had a great respect and spiritual connection to all living and non living things.
Because the Great Spirit created it all for a reason , in their beliefs.

So let's not pick peanuts out of poop , and let's just focus on the subject at hand, rather than discuss if the term first nations is correct or not....



Here s a newspaper clip that I found ...

😁

 

[sunndog]

LMFAO....brilliant, really hope thats genuine

 

[mrcharly]

I think a lot more fishermen use PFDs than people think. Inflating ones, under the waterproofs. If you are doing heavy work you don't wear these things on the outside, they are expensive and can be damaged. Also, people tend to put these on when weather gets bad. I liked wearing a PDF when I was out canoeing by myself because if I did get capsized then it was easier to gather stuff back together when not having to keep myself afloat. But then I was paddling racing kayaks most of the time so not stable boats, plus I was out on open water.

As for the standing up in a canoe thing - hmm, depends what you are doing! If poling, then you certainly stand up. Big canoe's are pretty stable - my 17'6" won't tip with an adult stood on the gunwale, except at the very widest point and even then only when empty. But that's a biggish boat, I've had 11 children in it. Sometimes it's useful to paddle standing up so you can read the water ahead, when the sun is low the reflections stop you seeing snags which are the real danger in a lot of rivers. It's good to have a paddle long enough to use when standing up.

 

[Leshy]

LMFAO....brilliant, really hope thats genuine

I hope so too...

 

[forrestdweller]

i heard the same thing in Australia in regards to the Aborigines (= newspaper article in post #54).....

 

[bikething]

I think a lot more fishermen use PFDs than people think...

I doubt ANY fisherman uses a PFD. Lifejackets, are another matter.. there is a difference

 

[KenThis]

I just wanted to point out from a genetics point of view there is no such thing as 'race'.
Within population variation is greater than Between population variation, or at least that is what I read 10 years ago when I studied such things.
As a species Homo Sapiens show a remarkable level of genetic similarity, far more so than would otherwise be expected in a global species, in large part because we're all the result of a bottle-neck where historically relatively few individuals left Africa and colonised the world.
In fact I was taught that there are villages in Africa with greater genetic diversity than there is between indigenous South American and indigenous Australian peoples.
Homo sapiens as well as being very new are also a 'mongrel' species, there is clear evidence that we bred with a number of early hominid species, not just neanderthals. Their DNA signatures are still present in 'our' genomes.

As I understand it culture is just everything you are taught, the arbitrary rules that are assigned by society so every generation doesn't start from scratch.
We can debate which is the best culture but it's pretty subjective and obviously each culture would tend to value it's own over another because that's how our species has evolved. It can be argued that we no longer rely on 'genes' but rather 'memes'. (see Richard Dawkins before he became an overly zealous anti-religion tub-thumper.)

Just my opinion, but I find it distasteful when one 'race' is peddled as superior to another either due to genetics or culture when it all boils down to where we're born and who taught us...
The very best bit about culture is we can keep learning till the day we die and take from other cultures and add to our own as we see fit. That way our children start off one more step ahead than we did. We can even relearn things that our ancestors took for granted (that our parents may not have needed) by either trial and error or observing how those things are done in other cultures.
The very definition of Bushcraft for me.......