Rip My Canoe Kit apart

[Robson Valley]

Joe's list is complete. You have to learn the rivers = some things you need, some things you don't.
My only experience like that is summers, several months at a time, up and down a 80km stretch of the Churchill River,
From Black Bear Island Lake into Nipew (where I lived) then away on down past Missinippi on Otter, past Stanley Mission to Keg Falls.
21' Chestnut freighter (5' wide in the middle) with a white man's paddle (longshaft Evinrude 18Hp.) They hold a moose.
There was a road at Otter Rapids. We could get there in a day with only 3 portages.

A First Nations guy drew me a map on birch bark. Was just a series of really distinctive land marks. No distances.
You go until you get to the next one and the last one. Then you don't need a map any more.

 

[sunndog]

Interesting about your names and such.....my aunti's name is 'linda', but she was supposed to be called 'louise'. trouble was by the time my old grandad made it down the registrar's office we was too drunk to spell 'louise' so 'linda' it was

cant agree on that axe thing i'm afriad mate. I'v been swinging axes since i was strong enough to lift one. The heavier the axe the more effort it takes to achieve the same speed.....why do they make so many haft length/head weight combinations of axe? Because like most tools, different sizes are better at different things


Swimming, i was refering to you and where you live


I see where you are coming from. I'm a farmer, arborist, and ex-gamekeeper (not everyone reading this forum only goes outside for a hobby) your canoe kit is much like my work gear. My clothes are bought for price and toughness above anything else, i'd rather get a bit wet in a heavy cotton coat that will last me for years than buy a new waterproof every other week through winter
I'll take more gear when i go hiking than i do for a day at work though, just because i am out to enjoy myself and want to be more comfortable than every other day
(We have a saying....any idiot can suffer)

I'd be willing to bet that if purpose made outdoor gear was readily available and reasonably priced where you live it would soon be adopted by your children and grandchildren. The weight of your axe and tarp would probably be close to the base weight of my entire pack for the same trip

 

[Janne]

I suspect that if Joe falls into the drink and if he can not swim, at least he has two hands that can hold onto the part of the pack that floats so he can kick towards land.

Because I suspect he packs some of the stuff in the tarp. Flotation device.

I only started wearing a survival suit because it was a demand from the local fishermans group to allow me fish there on my own, on a small 16 footer with a 9.9 outboard, wintertime.

Now I am used to it, and treat the suit as basically a waterproof overall, practical to avoid getting smeared in fish slime and blood.

Yep, it stinks. Outside from the fish, inside from me missing a bit when I wee over the railing.

 

[Janne]

Interesting about your names and such.....my aunti's name is 'linda', but she was supposed to be called 'louise'. trouble was by the time my old grandad made it down the registrar's office we was too drunk to spell 'louise' so 'linda' it was

p

She is lucky it did not become Louse!

My last name is weird and almost unpronouncable. Only because a drunk priest filled in the marriade cert for my great grand father and forgot an "e".
But being in the 1890's they had too much respect for the Man of Cloth to point it out and here I am.....

 

[Robson Valley]

Shooting rapids isn't a game of chance. You get taught to read the water. Maybe you come in, tie up and go for a walk to see what's up ahead.
Big stuff like gas barrels, we just tossed into the river to pick up again in the slack water at the bottom.
Two places, we could line the boat & load down the edge if you didn't mind getting wet.

 

[Macaroon]

Enough already with the preaching to another person about wearing a PDF; there's an awful smell of condescension in some of the above responses to the OP. Who are we to tell people on the other side of the world who live a completely different life what's right and wrong for them? Is there a problem with first nations people falling out of canoes and drowning for want of a PDF? Are they costing you anything by it? It's not like even if there was a problem with it they won't be costing you anything by taking up resources or services that affect you, your health sevices, rescue services or tax monies; different thing here where all those things would be true
of people being irresponsible by not wearing them for a leisure activity in a crowded and H&S dominated environment; that would be irresponsible.

I personally would rather glory in the differences in cultures, and am envious of the ability of those people to order their lives in the way they see fit and their freedom to do so. They seem to be able to manage it all very well, as far as I can see, and I wish it were possible here to a much greater degree.

 

[Robson Valley]

Thanks, macaroon. Come and visit.
Only dumb-asses with a death wish stand up and fall out of a serious canoe. They didn't ever earn the need to be in one in the first place.
Trust me = a 21' Chestnut freighter canoe is a mighty boat, 5' wide. A dead moose, 2 x 45 gal barrels of gas = same difference.
There's 2 kinds of boats. Little ones for the passers by and the real boats for those who live on the rivers.
I like them both, they have their uses.

I never got the chance to diddle around. Always places to go and things to do.
Hindsight tells me that I might have missed the relaxation and luxury of paddling around.
OTOH, I think some tourists wondered what we had been doing out of sight.
I got dropped with a big plane-load of supplies on the end of a long dock on a sunny afternoon.
I dozed off on the pile to wait for another boat, I was left all alone. Good enough.

 

[Toddy]

My Dad built boats, my brothers and I say that we spent more time on the water some years than we did at home.
Dad took a notion to dorys. No idea why, but he loved those sweet lines and the way the boats were so light on the water, shallow draught, easy to row or sail. He'd build one over Winter and by Spring we had a new boat. He'd sell it on at the end of the year and design and build another one.
I reckon that anything that can be done in a canoe we could do in one of the dorys. They were originally the stackable wee boats that belonged on the old whaler ships.

Anyway, we only wore life jackets (pdf??? I hadn't a clue what they were until I met folks from SotP ) until we could swim well. Then we didn't bother after we were five or six or so. Those old jackets were made of ventile and stuffed with kapok. There were older ones that were a waistcoat of blocks of cork kicking about too. Never wore those.

I remember being very, very small indeed. I remember lying in the bottom of the boat in a seagrass basket and watching the clouds moving, and I can still see my Dad setting oars into rowlocks and the world moving Memories are to be treasured, and the smell of seagrass and open water is still a delight.

Anyway, we didn't take all this kit that folks do now. We did have a tent but often just a bit of sailcloth over the boat, a bit of oilcloth under us and curled up to sleep in blankets or an old army down sleeping bag. Food was simple, we took a primus stove and a bucket…..the stove was lit in the bucket to keep it stable, safe, and out of the wind. Uncle Jimmy could brew up off shore in a gale, with the stove in a bucket
Dad did take an axe and we had a fire in the evening usually on a shingle beach somewhere. Necessary too because of the midgies.

We all had oilskins though. Well, it is Scotland and rain is just a fact of life.

We are very rich in stuff these days, very rich in kit, and we now live in a very over populated island. It shows in the choices we make. We have become very non self reliant. We expect instant help at the end of a phone connection. My big brother had to run three miles to get to the coastguard phone for help when he and my Dad saw a catamaran capsize. Too big for them to help right and the mast and sail were acting like the biggest keel on the planet. No sat or mobile phones back then.

Joe Tahkahikew ? your kit sounds fine to me. It suits you, your abilities, the realities of where you live.
None of us have any right to criticise, though you did invite folks to discuss your choices.

It's a quiet pleasure to read of other folks trips out and about, and discussion is just like the conversation around the fire afterwards.
Thank you for sharing

M

 

[KenThis]

Enough already with the preaching to another person about wearing a PDF; there's an awful smell of condescension in some of the above responses to the OP. Who are we to tell people on the other side of the world who live a completely different life what's right and wrong for them? Is there a problem with first nations people falling out of canoes and drowning for want of a PDF? Are they costing you anything by it? It's not like even if there was a problem with it they won't be costing you anything by taking up resources or services that affect you, your health sevices, rescue services or tax monies; different thing here where all those things would be true
of people being irresponsible by not wearing them for a leisure activity in a crowded and H&S dominated environment; that would be irresponsible.

I personally would rather glory in the differences in cultures, and am envious of the ability of those people to order their lives in the way they see fit and their freedom to do so. They seem to be able to manage it all very well, as far as I can see, and I wish it were possible here to a much greater degree.

I really don't see the condescension you do. Read the title of the thread. We're giving our opinions as to how we'd tackle a similar situation and I'm sure Joe is big enough to decide how much weight to attach to our thoughts.

I believe that we all have the capacity to learn, no-one knows everything, I certainly don't. Believing that Joe has some innate super-understanding of his environment just because he's 1st Nation is wrong. He was born in this world knowing nothing and was taught by his family and friends (as we all are) how to survive and thrive. Obviously he has a fantastic understanding of his environment, probably greater than any of us. But it came from generations of his ancestors practising, (trial and error) to find what worked and what didn't, this information was passed down. He has pointed out his environment has limited gear options as I'm sure would have been true historically so he has become adept at using the gear he has access to. There are some on the forums with a lot of experience using different axes for different jobs, should we discount their experiences because Joe only carries a 5lb axe? (more than likely because that was the only axe in the store, or perhaps the axe that his father showed him to use).

I'm guessing but I'd imagine Joe would be open to learning/teaching new skills as much as anyone as he's probably spent his life learning what works in his environment and then teaching others.

This got ranty. sorry.

 

[Macaroon]

Believing that Joe has some innate super-understanding of his environment just because he's 1st Nation is wrong. .

Where does that come from? I think it says more about you and your attitudes than me, there's certainly no mention of it in my post, and such a thought wouldn't (I hope) cross my mind.

I really find it difficult to reconcile my post with your response to it; giving your opinions to the OP is great and exactly why the post was made, but there's ways of giving your opinions without the preachy safety stuff and some of the responses above (not neccessarily your responses) have something of a " we know best " flavour to them, that's all I wanted to express

 

[mrcharly]

Joe, I've spent a lot of time in canoes and I think I know where you are coming from with the attitude to PFD. It's about approach. Don't get into dangerous situations.

I've been on a few group trips, and despite being one of the youngest in the group, after 10-15 min, some of the less confident people were requesting to be in my canoe. They saw how I approached snags, how I controlled the boat. Always keeping it safe, not letting it get into dangerous situations, rather than putting energy into getting it out dangerous situations.

I've never been in an area where these fabled spruce roots were plentiful and could be used for binding things. Such a bountiful environment, it sounds amazing. I'd love to see it one day (but that is as likely as winning the lottery).

 

[sunndog]

If anyone is getting a bit hot undsr the coller just go back and re-read the third paragraph in toddy's post a couple of times......just how cool is that

saftey gear, most people who grow up doing stuff tend to be a bit lax with PPE. Its just the way it is, and most people are fine doing without it
I'v been a biker since my early teens and have a wee bike for scooting around the farm (just as a cheaper option to take some work off the quad) you think i wear a crash helmet?
Been using chainsaws longer than riding bikes......got my first pair of chainsaw trousers a few years ago, and only then because it was a requirment for the job
Never even tried on a protective jacket

A latest project of mine has been an axeroon (google) its just a fantastic tool for big wood handling and working the splitter. I wouldn't lend it to anyone for fear of the pick end coming out of a chunk of wood and them smashing themselves in the face with the axe....but to me it just seems inconceivable because i'm hyper aware of what the tool will do if it comes unstuck at any time, and i work in such a way that i believe its perfectly safe at all times

So yeah, lets not get too hung up on joe's lack of a pfd. He has said he gets out and walks around dodgy bits of river. I havent been in a canoe since i was a kid but i can swim so i wouldn't worry overmuch about the tiny chance of falling in the water on a calm river.....i'm guessing its warm enough to swim where joe lives
Thinking about it. Even as a kid i never did manage to fall out of that canoe...i went down a few little weirs and in the sea but never any rapids

 

[dewi]

Where does that come from? I think it says more about you and your attitudes than me, there's certainly no mention of it in my post, and such a thought wouldn't (I hope) cross my mind.

I really find it difficult to reconcile my post with your response to it; giving your opinions to the OP is great and exactly why the post was made, but there's ways of giving your opinions without the preachy safety stuff and some of the responses above (not neccessarily your responses) have something of a " we know best " flavour to them, that's all I wanted to express

But with no hint of irony, you'll tell those who have responded to the thread how they should respond, pointing out perceived condescension with the wagging finger of Macaroon knows best when it comes to replying to a thread

Joe asked for opinions, presumably brutally honest opinions given the title of the thread... so that is what people are doing. Just because you don't like the tone or pace of the opinions doesn't make anyone condescending or preachy. Pointing out your perception and instructing people how they should express their opinion however....

I'm pretty sure Joe has dealt with more than an opinion on the internet before... seriously doubt it'll change his mind or what he does canoeing down a river.

 

[forrestdweller]

And for a trip like this we'd only take a rifle if we were paddling somewhere we could shoot small game. You can't fit a moose in canoe and we don't waste what is hard to come by!!!

i'm just curious-my experience is limited (and limited to ursus tibetanicus): as you seem to carry quite a few items which could attract one-- what would you do in case of a bear encounter?!

and i could not see toilet paper on your list....

 

[Joe tahkahikew]

i'm just curious-my experience is limited (and limited to ursus tibetanicus): as you seem to carry quite a few items which could attract one-- what would you do in case of a bear encounter?!

and i could not see toilet paper on your list....

Ha Ha! & Bear no problem as long as you respect him.

You all may enjoy this film by the National Film Board of Canada 'Cree hunters of the Mistassini'.

12 minutes in you'll see canoeing
14. the Axes we mostly use
16. minutes in canoeing in rapids
30 minutes in Beaver hunting.

Its old and less people live this way nowadays.

https://www.nfb.ca/film/cree_hunters/download/

I was in my 20's when I think this film was made.

 

[Leshy]

Fantastic link, thank you Joe!
I'll watch this in more detail and
I'll add that one to my collection....

 

[KenThis]

Apologies for any offence. Yeah I realised my post was a little ranty, I should have spent some time organising my thoughts, but I was in a bit of a rush and had a bee in my bonnet (non forum related).

I just wanted to point out that Joe clearly has a wealth of experience that he can share with us, especially about his native environment and we'd obviously be foolish to dismiss him. But that doesn't mean he's automatically right about everything because we can all benefit from others input, we can all learn and maybe should keep an open mind. (A pet peeve of mine.)

I do realise though that we all come from different backgrounds, and Sunndog makes an excellent point about what you have grown up with, dictating how you perceive risk.
My dad worked on tugboats in the Bristol Channel for 30 years. He wouldn't dream of being on deck without a PFD/life jacket. When I went out with him I always wore one. If we ever went out on his friends boat we always wore one. Now I wouldn't dream of being on open water without wearing something, yet I've never been canoeing on wide gentle rivers.

 

[Macaroon]

Good fim, that; a nice insight into another way of life, thanks for that.

 

[Janne]

I think, scratch that, I know Joe has experience and knowledge that equals the rest of us combined.
Myself and the other Scandi members know probably more about the Sub Arctic than you guys, but in a "leisure one"way.
We do it for fun, Joe does it as a way of life.

 

[dewi]

I think, scratch that, I know Joe has experience and knowledge that equals the rest of us combined.
Myself and the other Scandi members know probably more about the Sub Arctic than you guys, but in a "leisure one"way.
We do it for fun, Joe does it as a way of life.

That's got to be the daftest contribution to the thread so far... there is no way to quantify someone's experience or knowledge compared to someone else. More to the point, why would anyone want to quantify it?

Unless you've got some magical third eye that allows you to compare everyone reading this, you know nothing Janne Snow.