Modern bushcraft !?!

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Paul_B

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Jul 14, 2008
4,345
589
Lancashire
on the whole we are a friendly bunch, unless you paddle a Kayak through the swim
we have spent all morning baiting up or there is a match in full swing LOL then your in bandit country :)
I don't moan tho, 1 im a yakker too (in fact you probably would get asked if you want a brew)
and 2 I don't fish matches, im a speci hunter and id just move off somewhere else, unless its a big lake not a river
and you have some pr**k that just wants to be disrespectful by screwing around infront of you
when they have the whole lake too play in. The majority of us are cool unless the above stated outrages
occur lol.
Yes! Agree there. There will always be irresponsible ppl. I can give you chapter and verse about people hassling us when out kayaking or even on the way there. highly visible targets you see. Shotguns, bricks and a grandpa frightening his grandson with threatening behaviour. helps to have a big RM bruiser in the group!!!!
 

dump of the stig

New Member
Sep 8, 2012
239
0
west sussex
No they're not really any protection from snakes, that's true.

However they're just fine in the tropics (I've worn them in Panama a great deal) As to them being "stinking, hot, sweaty when dry" I never found that to be true. Not in the tropics. Nor in the desert (Saudi nor the Mohave) As for "never get them dry in that humid environment" Well, again, not generally my experience from humidity alone. However I usually get wet from wading/fording deep streams and/or getting in and out of the canoe/boat (whether from neccessity or just because that's half the reason for the trip) Nothing is ever dry when your in the everglades are a tropical swamp. It's the nature of the beast. Not denim, Not wool. And not any synthetic. Woopy-do; I'm gonna be wet. So what? Only the "dudes" and women give a rat's butt about being wet in the swamps.
Well there you go, horses for courses, but you seem to be saying if your going to wear them you might as well wear anything
as there are no pro,s to them what so ever. then why not just wear a cheap pair of surplus combats, im assuming when or if
you spend multiple days in wet tropical conditions you at least attempt a wet and dry clothing routine. You have a pretty
good chance of getting combats dry (ish) before they go back on, its going to be wet but not heavy and wet), if swamp is your thing (I was not thinking mangrove swamp
as this wasn't mentioned in the original post I don't think) then surely light combats are a better alternative to jeans when moving through up to
your waste? your last comment of "woopy doo im gana get wet" is a bit like im gana wear shorts and t-shirt in the highlands
woopy doo im gana get cold! well yes, yes you are! (shrugs) you know there are better alternatives but you just want to
be a man about it or you just cant be bothered to wear something else, which is all fine, but honestly not something you
should advise people when there are simply better alternatives (that is what this thread is about you know, discussing
what is good and not good, not simply going "oh well that will do" lol)
PS, I better add this is a light harted discussion/banter between myself and santaman, at no point is any of this ment in
an insulting or derogatory manner too my bush brother, at the end of the day again there is no right and wrong just
2 conflicting opinions which is only natural concidering the discussion PEACE :)
 
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Tiley

Full Member
Oct 19, 2006
2,028
144
56
Gloucestershire
Difficult one to answer really JB.

There are those who try to use wholly traditional materials and there are some who use wholly modern modern materials. I think most of us use a bit of both in one way shape or form.

I teach bushcraft and survival and can see benefits to both. I also use both natural and modern materials almost interchangeably.

Sleeping systems being just one thing which can be greatly controversial. Most modern sleeping systems are filled with some form of man made fibre and as such work reasonably well even when wet, but warmth to weight and size when packed tend to run in favour of natural materials like down. Having said that though invariably the down is encased in a poly fibre in most cases like Pertex and the same for down jackets. In this case there is almost a perfect fusion / symbiosis of new and old.

Then if we look at tapaulin's most of us wouldn't dream of carrying a tarp made from natural fibre for long distances packed in the top of our bergans, the weight especially after one wetting out would be somewhat excessive and then we have the size to consider.

I was out in the rain and the wind a couple of days ago, my base layer was a merino wool top, then a cotton t-shirt, then a polartec fleece and finally an aqau dry jacket. Layers being used to good effect. I also had a Ventile smock with me which I tend to use around the fire. Later in the year I will use Ventile a lot more having single layer and double layer jackets, but it's still a trade off on water resistance, smell, noise amongst other factors.

Many of us wear leather boots that have a lining of sympatex or even gore-tex. Modern and old can work together very well, but there is normally some form of compromise like smell (you only need to look at the original Karrimor KSb's to prove that).

Old and new doesn't just apply to clothing and footwear it can also apply to our shelters, sleeping systems, rucksacks / bergans, water bottles and cutlery we use. I doubt very much if there are too many people in the western world out there wearing all natural fibres, sleeping in all natural fibres, walking in all natural materials and using cutting tools that have or involve no modern materials or methods of manufacture.

Whether people like it or not they'll probably find that somewhere in their kit there is a fusion of old and new and they'll possibly find that it's one of the better pieces of kit that they own.

Does wool insulate when it's wet, In my experience yes it does, I think they tried to explain it here, here and here.
Thank you for this. It is a well-considered and balanced view that has got the thread back on track and thinking about the original, interesting post.
 

Ivan...

Ex member
Jul 28, 2011
1,771
0
Dartmoor
Perhaps, with limited knowedge(which we all know is dangerous) i should not even be involved with this thread ( but by it's very international flavour(flavor) is all the more exciting)

But my take on wool, in my 50 years on the planet, personally speaking are as follows.

I had an army jumper, from Endicotts, when i was about 8, it itched a bit at times but i loved it to bit's, it kept me warm and i thought i looked cool.That was until my mum washed it on too higher temperature, and it only fit my action man , i cried, i honestly did.

When i was about 10, my mum showed me how to make a pom pom, with two bits of circular card and a load of wool she no longer wanted.

And finally, i was bought a guernsey jumper, which i loved, and warned you quite clearly of it's lanolin properties and hand washing intructions etc, which eventually ended up the same way as my army jumper.

So, i for one am glad of modern materials, which serve my needs really well, and yet though i may not have crawled through the jungle, swamps etc, so can't give a real account of the benefits of wool, i have experienced one of the harshed environments on earth(to me Dartmoor) It's a plus for modern synthetics.

"Gentlemen you will carry on" ( Ray Winstone, Scum )

Ivan...
 

Ivan...

Ex member
Jul 28, 2011
1,771
0
Dartmoor
Dear Mr dump of the stig, you are so right sir , it's like the way your heart pounds, when you hear the Snarget's

Only you and i know what that means.

Ivan...
 

Stringmaker

Native
Sep 6, 2010
1,891
1
UK
When i was about 10, my mum showed me how to make a pom pom, with two bits of circular card and a load of wool she no longer wanted.

Ivan...
I used to make those as a kid; I made one the size of a football once. It must have contained a whole flock!
 

Stringmaker

Native
Sep 6, 2010
1,891
1
UK
Incidentally, this thread seemed to me to be one of those which would never reach consensus.

Looks like I was right judging by the trail of deleted posts.
 

leon-1

Mod
Mod
Hi guys and girls, some of you may have noted that to keep this thread on track I have just been through and deleted some of the posts. I make no apologies for this as we seem to be detracting from the original post again.

I would also like to see this thread run it's natural course and see what people think about the subject of natural versus man made as a whole and can the two be used in conjunction. Not just does wool do this or does it do that.

Keep the thread on track as I'd hate to close it.
 
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Tony

White bear (Admin)
Admin
Apr 16, 2003
22,104
671
49
Wales
www.bushcraftuk.com
Thanks Leon.

Just a warning because I've already asked nicely earlier in the thread, we'll issue infractions to anyone that carries on with personal issues in this thread, you ruin it for others and that's not acceptable.
 

Macaroon

A bemused & bewildered
Jan 5, 2013
7,115
268
70
SE Wales
Here's what I hope will be seen as a positive one: Following some of my earlier posts in this thread and the replies to them, I've been and gone and done some reading about the fire risk thing with synthetics, and have modified my views considerably as a result. It seems that, as so often happens in life, I was basing some but not all of my attitudes on outdated information and now that I've caught up a little have learned that the melting risk with synthetics coming into contact with fire is way less than it used to be, even a few years ago: It's not gone entirely, eg nylon is still used in many ways, trimmings, thread etc. but I'm now convinced that the risk is acceptable, ( although not for me personally ). Why are there warning labels on so many items of daily wear warning of fire risks? They're not there for fun. However, you pays your money and you takes your chance!

The positive bit is that due to some of the sometimes heated debate earlier in the thread, I was persuaded to go and re-think my opinions in the light of the up-to-date info. and research, and changed my position considerably: How can this be anything other than good? Seems to me the whole point of such debate is to learn, to expose yourself to other opinions and viewpoints and to modify your own in the light of the new stuff you pick up....................Otherwise it's all just bickering, and I've got fun stuff to do!.............Just my tuppenceworth............................atb mac
 

Hile_Troy

Need to contact Admin...
May 2, 2013
77
0
Stalybridge
...I was persuaded to go and re-think my opinions in the light of the up-to-date info. and research, and changed my position considerably: How can this be anything other than good? Seems to me the whole point of such debate is to learn, to expose yourself to other opinions and viewpoints and to modify your own in the light of the new stuff you pick up....................Otherwise it's all just bickering, and I've got fun stuff to do!.............Just my tuppenceworth............................atb mac
Absolutely. This is exactly the argument I use as proof that I am always right. When I am wrong, I admit it and change my opinion. In this way I become right, and am therefore never wrong... :naughty:
 

Hile_Troy

Need to contact Admin...
May 2, 2013
77
0
Stalybridge
I have just re-read my post #294, and it occurs to me that it could be read as saying that I thought Macaroon was wrong in something he had previously posted and I was poking with a stick in some smarmy and superior way, I totally didn't mean it to read in that way, I sometimes forget that facial expression and tone of voice are difficult to get across in text, I hope it wasn't read in that way by anyone, it was intended to be a light-hearted tongue-in-cheek amusing comment to bring a smile.
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
16,526
924
63
Florida
Well there you go, horses for courses, but you seem to be saying if your going to wear them you might as well wear anything
as there are no pro,s to them what so ever. then why not just wear a cheap pair of surplus combats, im assuming when or if
you spend multiple days in wet tropical conditions you at least attempt a wet and dry clothing routine. You have a pretty
good chance of getting combats dry (ish) before they go back on, its going to be wet but not heavy and wet), if swamp is your thing (I was not thinking mangrove swamp
as this wasn't mentioned in the original post I don't think) then surely light combats are a better alternative to jeans when moving through up to
your waste? your last comment of "woopy doo im gana get wet" is a bit like im gana wear shorts and t-shirt in the highlands
woopy doo im gana get cold! well yes, yes you are! (shrugs) you know there are better alternatives but you just want to
be a man about it or you just cant be bothered to wear something else, which is all fine, but honestly not something you
should advise people when there are simply better alternatives (that is what this thread is about you know, discussing
what is good and not good, not simply going "oh well that will do" lol)
PS, I better add this is a light harted discussion/banter between myself and santaman, at no point is any of this ment in
an insulting or derogatory manner too my bush brother, at the end of the day again there is no right and wrong just
2 conflicting opinions which is only natural concidering the discussion PEACE :)
I'll start off by saying I agree with you that this just a discussion between us with no ill will or insults intended.

Now down to the points you commented on:
-True the OP didn't specifically mention mangrove swamps or deserts. But so what? it didn'y exclude them either and that's where some of us do or have had some or most of our experience. I brought them into play to demonstrate hot climates such as you were talking about.

-I don't get into them much anymore for extended periods (haven't been to the desert at all in a few years now) but yes, at one time I did do long(ish) trips into both (a few days to a couple of weeks at a time) and nothing, absolutely nothing would have dried or been any better that what I was using clothing wise. As to a "wet/dry method, well yes it works for the first day or so until EVERYTHING is well and truly soaked. To be honest, as far as clothing goes, I rarely if ever use anything special that I don't simply wear every day. I DO try to adjust my clothing for the particulat climate. I.e. I wear different things here in Summer than I would in the Rockies in Winter. But in both cases, the clothing I wear when out hunting, fishing, canoeing, hiking, whatever, is the same clothing I'd be wearing anyway (some exceptions but not many)

-You mentioned "combats" as an alternative to blue jeans. I'm confused here. To me the term "combats" means a pair of military boots. Obviously that's not what you mean.

-True this thread is about discussing what's good. But that said it's also asking what we do; and I (like i suspect many) do is use what's to hand for clothing rather than buy something special just for this hobby. Not just because of cost, but frankly I'm just more comfortable in my daily wear (other equipment such as rucks/packs, canteens, etc. not so much so)
 
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