'Traditional' bushcraft timeline

[sunndog]

I take your point. However, at no stage was I asking 'what is bushcraft?': as you state so directly, it has been done to death. It was not the point I was actually trying to make. Still, in the interest of the continuity of your thread, I'll shut up.

Sorry if i was a bit abrupt mate
I did mean a similar TYPE of thread to "what is bushcraft" "do we need bushcraft" "what does bushcraft mean to you"......you know the sort
For example i bet on reinactors forums nobody would say "well, theres not really such a thing as "reinactors" kit because a roman soldier or a viking used it every day"

 

[Wayland]

Oh there are plenty of threads about "re-enactors kit" believe me.

There is a whole load of things that have crept in from the early days of re-enacting that there is no historical evidence for but just get used because someone saw someone else using it.

Back on track though, I suspect the romantic idea of "Bushcraft" or whatever else you want to call it comes from early scouting which often harked back to a slightly earlier "golden age" when "men were men" and small furry animals were very afraid.

 

[boatman]

Something about all the different periods of bushcraft, even back into the Mesolithic, was that the aim of nearly all was to move from bushcrafting to living in nice snug house. Bushcraft was always a means to an end, lay in supplies, trade etc. The aim was to go there and come back. Some of course stayed in the bushcrafting way of life and never got home.

The Explorer

1898There's no sense in going further -- it's the edge of cultivation,"
So they said, and I believed it -- broke my land and sowed my crop --
Built my barns and strung my fences in the little border station
Tucked away below the foothills where the trails run out and stop:

Till a voice, as bad as Conscience, rang interminable changes
On one everlasting Whisper day and night repeated -- so:
"Something hidden. Go and find it. Go and look behind the Ranges --
"Something lost behind the Ranges. Lost and wating for you. Go!"

So I went, worn out of patience; never told my nearest neighbours --
Stole away with pack and ponies -- left 'em drinking in the town;
And the faith that moveth mountains didn't seem to help my labours
As I faced the sheer main-ranges, whipping up and leading down.

March by march I puzzled through 'em, turning flanks and dodging shoulders,
Hurried on in hope of water, headed back for lack of grass;
Till I camped above the tree-line -- drifted snow and naked boulders --
Felt free air astir to windward -- knew I'd stumbled on the Pass.

'Thought to name it for the finder: but that night the Norther found me --
Froze and killed the plains-bred ponies; so I called the camp Despair
(It's the Railway Gap to-day, though). Then my Whisper waked to hound me: --
"Something lost behind the Ranges. Over yonder! Go you there!"

Then I knew, the while I doubted -- knew His Hand was certain o'er me.
Still -- it might be self-delusion -- scores of better men had died --
I could reach the township living, but....e knows what terror tore me...
But I didn't... but I didn't. I went down the other side.

Till the snow ran out in flowers, and the flowers turned to aloes,
And the aloes sprung to thickets and a brimming stream ran by;
But the thickets dwined to thorn-scrub, and the water drained to shallows,
And I dropped again on desert -- blasted earth, and blasting sky....

I remember lighting fires; I remember sitting by 'em;
I remember seeing faces, hearing voices, through the smoke;
I remember they were fancy -- for I threw a stone to try 'em.
"Something lost behind the Ranges" was the only word they spoke.

I remember going crazy. I remember that I knew it
When I heard myself hallooing to the funny folk I saw.
'Very full of dreams that desert, but my two legs took me through it...
And I used to watch 'em moving with the toes all black and raw.

But at last the country altered -- White Man's country past disputing --
Rolling grass and open timber, with a hint of hills behind --
There I found me food and water, and I lay a week recruiting.
Got my strength and lost my nightmares. Then I entered on my find.

Thence I ran my first rough survey -- chose my trees and blazed and ringed 'em --
Week by week I pried and sampled -- week by week my findings grew.
Saul he went to look for donkeys, and by God he found a kingdom!
But by God, who sent His Whisper, I had struck the worth of two!

Up along the hostile mountains, where the hair-poised snowslide shivers --
Down and through the big fat marshes that the virgin ore-bed stains,
Till I heard the mile-wide mutterings of unimagined rivers,
And beyond the nameless timber saw illimitable plains!

'Plotted sites of future cities, traced the easy grades between 'em;
Watched unharnessed rapids wasting fifty thousand head an hour;
Counted leagues of water-frontage through the axe-ripe woods that screen 'em --
Saw the plant to feed a people -- up and waiting for the power!

Well, I know who'll take the credit -- all the clever chaps that followed --
Came, a dozen men together -- never knew my desert-fears;
Tracked me by the camps I'd quitted, used the water-holes I hollowed.
They'll go back and do the talking. They'll be called the Pioneers!

They will find my sites of townships -- not the cities that I set there.
They will rediscover rivers -- not my rivers heard at night.
By my own old marks and bearings they will show me how to get there,
By the lonely cairns I builded they will guide my feet aright.

Have I named one single river? Have I claimed one single acre?
Have I kept one single nugget -- (barring samples)? No, not I!
Because my price was paid me ten times over by my Maker.
But you wouldn't understand it. You go up and occupy.

Ores you'll find there; wood and cattle; water-transit sure and steady
(That should keep the railway rates down), coal and iron at your doors.
God took care to hide that country till He judged His people ready,
Then He chose me for His Whisper, and I've found it, and it's yours!

Yes, your "Never-never country" -- yes, your "edge of cultivation"
And "no sense in going further" -- till I crossed the range to see.
God forgive me! No, I didn't. It's God's present to our nation.
Anybody might have found it, but -- His Whisper came to Me!

Rudyard Kipling

 

[Toddy]

Well…..I bet the first person who saw a stone tipped arrow commented that back in his day, firehardened wood did just fine

I think the divide is really, "Can you make it yourself from only the natural resources around you ?".

Since doing so, to make all of our kit from absolute scratch, would take not only a tremendous amount of work, but time and access to natural resouces too, most of us will just have to rely on bought stuff, and learn as much as we can to file away in the old brain, just incase it comes useful at some point Besides, it's interesting to know how.

For instance, we know of good iron pre Roman (Over 1000 bce for arms (Hittite armies, etc.,) and good evidence for the use of meteoritic iron over 3000bce. We know how to make it from bog iron, let alone from iron ore or meteoritic sources. Doesn't mean we can make good steel easily though, even though technically we know how the process works. The Chinese had it by 350bce, and good carbon steel by 100ce. Not the speciality of most here however (shout out Sir Dave !) and most just buy it either in sheet, billet or ready made items.

Similarly with fabric. From hemp to linen, cotton, wool, etc.,
I can spin and weave and sew, but I know just how much effort it is to turn plant fibres (and over half the effort is in growing and breaking out those fibres) into good cloth. Most folks just buy it by the metre or as finished items. Put it this way, the cloth I've made myself is too 'valueable' to wear most of the time. Factory made is cheap in both expense and labour.

Leather ? if you've ever processed a hide by yourself, and made good leather, either buckskin or tanned, you will value every single square cm of the stuff. It's damned hard work to make it by hand. Incredibly useful, and one of the reasons that humanity now exists virtually everywhere on Earth. Our own skins are soft and easily damaged. Using the skin of something else as well, as clothing, let humanity expand outside it's original very narrow range.
Again, most folks just buy it, or the finished items.

Woodwork ? well, some of us have cut down trees, processed them, used the material, and if you've done it all by hand, then by heavens you appreciate good steel tools
Can you do it with stone tools though ? Yes. It's even harder to do however, you have to think of the tool differently, it'll chip, snap, shatter if you don't pay attention, and it's slower, and you stop trying for straight lines and allow the timber it's 'organic' shape-ness. Though that followed through right into Tudor times at least.
Keep the accuracy for joints, (and shaped items like bows, arrows, throwing sticks, etc.,) iimmc.

Fire ? or really firelighting I suppose. Can you do it from nothing but the natural resouces around you and no metal tools ?
Yes. I tell you though, I really appreciate a good reliable lighter now, and there's an appreciation for a decent bit of good flint and a good spark giving steel

Sorry to wander the thread a bit, but 'traditional' takes many forms, y'know ?

M

 

[Janne]

Fire hardened wood.... Humbug.....
I like my meat nice and naturally tenderized, a couple of days in the sun after it self died it is then at its best.

 

[Tengu]

How about when Scouting began? So just over a hundred years ago.

Thanks for Kipling, boatman. (Anyone who says he was a racist hasnt got to know him.)

 

[Toddy]

Boatman ? I like Kipling even with all the detractors of 'Colonialism', I like him. He has a way of telling a tale that greatly appeals.

Janne ? no, no, no…..we are, "The Cooking Ape". At least find something after a forest fire

M

 

[Janne]

Boatman ? I like Kipling even with all the detractors of 'Colonialism', I like him. He has a way of telling a tale that greatly appeals.

Janne ? no, no, no…..we are, "The Cooking Ape". At least find something after a forest fire

M

Kipling is one of the greatest story tellers. Even we Swedes love him. I find it crazy to accuse people of previous generations for colonialism, racism and such. We are pushing our contemporary believes on historic people...... so wrong!

I will tell my wife she forgot the "cooking" part next time she is sngry at me!

 

[boatman]

"Can you do it" reminds again of the deaf Schoolmaster in BBC Survivors. Yes I know people who could make that table. Gather and smelt the iron and all the rest of the necessary processes. Time is a factor and the huge advantage we have is that we know what is possible.

 

[sunndog]

All interesting stuff

Would anyone like to hazard a guess at when full length trousers and button front shirts became the most common?

 

[Laurentius]

Yup, I think you are right, the Thorsburg trousers ( I've made a pair for no good reason ) definitely have them and they are what. 6 th century? and they do crop up occasionally ( 1860s firemens trousers, 1880 s onwards sportsmans clothes like baseball knickers, 1905 pic of Rodeo riders one guy has belt loops , 1903 onwards military trousers ) but definitely weren't the norm for most trousers until well after the Great War. I've watched too many westerns made in the bad old days when wardrobe staff weren't so fussy!

Yeah, there were wellingtons and various waders made from rubber and the first rubber soles were in the 1890s but for shoes and boots leather, either with metal studs or not we're vastly more common as a sole material until WW2 and the masive expansion in the industry to cater for the military demand for Jungle and Commando / Mountain boots. Certainly in the latter case these were just rubber outer soles nailed or screwed to the leather soles of traditional boots. The rubber was pretty poor stuff and only issued for extreme conditions as the hob nailed leather soled boots lasted so much better. For the Korean War they brought out the Cold Wet Weather boot with a rubber sole ( still basically a Ammo boot with a rubber sole added to it) and it wasn't until the 60s we started using direct moulded soles, although other countries got there first and no doubt there were high end civilian mountain boots that were more modern in design.

Atb

tom

I read an interesting history of the Wellington Boot some time ago. I think in general that rubber soles came fairly late as standard in the 20th century well after the war. Indeed it is not as if leather soles have died the death yet.

 

[Laurentius]

I tend to think of the traditional era of bushcraft as being the time of the pioneering of the American West, from Lewis and Clark on to the Mountain Men. In fairness I expect that there were many other frontiers before that where people were pushing the boundaries of survival. I expect the Irish Monks who got to Iceland even before the Vikings were practising bushcraft as against everyday urban existence of the time.

 

[Toddy]

All interesting stuff

Would anyone like to hazard a guess at when full length trousers and button front shirts became the most common?

Think of trousers as two legs and a loincloth, and we know of them from at least Oetzi's time

Seriously, the original garment is a string waistband. To that a cloth/piece of soft leather (or carrot gourd in PNG!) is attached, or wrapped over. Make two long tubes with ties or loops at the top and fasten them onto the waist string. Ta-rah and you've made your breeks

Button fronted shirts… Y'see tunics (of buckskin or cloth) were the norm for millennia, and until at least the 19th century shirts were made with short placket opening fronts, not full length open up the front with load of buttons and draughts.

M

 

[santaman2000]

All interesting stuff

Would anyone like to hazard a guess at when full length trousers and button front shirts became the most common?

Trivia fact lists James Madison as the first President to wear them instead of knee britches. Assuming he was following the common style (at least here) that would put it around the turn of the century (18th to 19th century) I think full button shirts were later.

 

[santaman2000]

......Leather ? if you've ever processed a hide by yourself, and made good leather, either buckskin or tanned....

I think you meant "rawhide" rather than "buckskin" as buckskin refers to the source of the leather rather than the process (and indeed is usually tanned)

 

[santaman2000]

How about when Scouting began? So just over a hundred years ago.

Thanks for Kipling, boatman. (Anyone who says he was a racist hasnt got to know him.)

I tend to think of the traditional era of bushcraft as being the time of the pioneering of the American West, from Lewis and Clark on to the Mountain Men. In fairness I expect that there were many other frontiers before that where people were pushing the boundaries of survival. I expect the Irish Monks who got to Iceland even before the Vikings were practising bushcraft as against everyday urban existence of the time.

I mostly think of these areas as well; plus African Safaris of the same era.

 

[Toddy]

I got roundly told off on an American forum for calling it rawhide….they said that that was the dried untanned untreated skin, as hard and coarse as a plank…that buckskin was the brain (or eggwash, or other oily stuff) tanned and smoked skin.
They were an argumentative bunch and I found them hard going, tbh. I'd rather chill out

I give up trying to keep everyone happy on it.
Let's just call it hand made non chemically tanned, leather ?

M

 

[Laurentius]

I got roundly told off on an American forum for calling it rawhide….they said that that was the dried untanned untreated skin, as hard and coarse as a plank…that buckskin was the brain (or eggwash, or other oily stuff) tanned and smoked skin.
They were an argumentative bunch and I found them hard going, tbh. I'd rather chill out

I give up trying to keep everyone happy on it.
Let's just call it hand made non chemically tanned, leather ?

M

I always thought that buckskin was from the skin of a buck, and rawhide was from cattle or buffalo.

 

[santaman2000]

I got roundly told off on an American forum for calling it rawhide….they said that that was the dried untanned untreated skin, as hard and coarse as a plank…that buckskin was the brain (or eggwash, or other oily stuff) tanned and smoked skin.
They were an argumentative bunch and I found them hard going, tbh. I'd rather chill out ....

LOL. They were partially right: rawhide is indeed the dried, untanned, untreated skin (unless you consider removing the hair as is sometimes done, as a "treatment) but so what? That's the very definition of "untanned. Likewise, yes, buckskin is (or was) most often brain tanned (or egg washed, or some other form) and usually smoked, but again, so what? Brain tanning is still tanning.

 

[santaman2000]

I always thought that buckskin was from the skin of a buck, and rawhide was from cattle or buffalo.

Technically, yes, buckskin is from a buck (although doeskin is often referred to as buckskin) But rawhide, while usually taken from cattle (just because it's the cheapest) can actually come from any source. The key being that it's just stretched or shaped in it's "raw" condition and allowed to dry.