'Traditional' bushcraft timeline

[sunndog]

We talk about 'traditional' bushcraft kit quite a lot. But i'v been wondering what sort of time scale 'traditional' refers to in our common vernacular?


i like a bit of history but am rubbish with dates, so if you can put a rough date on anything that would be great

What we call traditional kit usually includes

.good steel tools

.flint and steel for fire

.wool, canvas, and leather clothing/sleeping gear

That last one is where the timeline might be a little bit surprising. The wool and canvas kit is usually in what i think are very modern patterns.
Take Somthing like a frost river pack, when did folks start making rucksacks to that fairly modern looking design, with buckles, drawstrings, and even hip belts?

button fly, belt loops and thigh pockets on trousers? Or any pockets at all for that matter

Rubber soled boots and criss cross laces?

Even something like a waterproof oilskin type jacket rather than just a cloak of some type


Thoughts?

 

[Man of Tanith]

For me traditional bushcraft is the nessmuk/kephart/baden-powell time frame

 

[dewi]

Good point really because I always classed the break in the timeline to be when Oates announced that he was just going outside and may be some time... but thinking about it I have camping gear from 30 years ago that is now classed as retro and somewhat 'traditional'. I have a camping chair from 60 years ago that is classed as retro and 'traditional' British camping gear.

I wonder if in 50 years from now people will look at DD hammocks and class them as retro and traditional?

 

[tombear]

Personally here's when I consider the time frames

good steel tools - Saxon/Vikings onward

flint and steel late Iron Age / Roman until 1850s when strike anywhere matches became fairly universally available

Wool, canvas and leather clothing/sleeping gear - Bronze Age to late 1940s / early 1950s when synthetics started to replace them

"modern" packs 1930s for wide spread use, but there been designs used by mountain dwellers going back to Otzi.

Theres a good article here
https://74fdc.wordpress.com/2012/08...ks-applying-the-old-ways-to-the-new-journeys/

Thigh pockets on trousers, 1930s with British battle dress which was based on then high tech skiing clothing. trouser pockets, well if you include breaches 17th century, proper trousers late 18 th century but not common until early 19 th. Belt loops from late Iron Age / dark ages.

Oilskin jackets, earliest I've seen are 18 th century, tarred clothing earlier, Tudor/Stuart?

Rubbed soled boots not really common until WW2 but prolific by the 1950s.

Traditional personally I put down as 18 th century colonial to 1850s / end of the fur trade / black powder muzzle loaders being replaced by cartridge guns. Later stuff ( late 19th C to 1930s) I just think of as Retro as it's the sort of stuff I wander around in normally. swandris, ventile cagules, felt hats, Benny hats etc.

ATB

Tom

 

[Bishop]

well...
Synthetic rubber was first created in 1910 but not truly commercially available until 1930
Ferrocerium fire strikers were first patented in 1903 and the cigarette lighter industry was born.
Wooden matches have been available since about 1830.

As for backpacks, probably the best article out there on the history of modern backpacks is at woodtrekker.blogspot.co.uk.
Apparently the idea of load transfer and hip-belts was being tinkered with as far back as 1886.
[h=3][/h]

 

[sunndog]

Great stuff this chaps really interesting. esp tom's post, fantastic mate

 

[Martti]

Rubber soled boots and criss cross laces?

Rubbed soled boots not really common until WW2 but prolific by the 1950s.

Suomen Gummitehdas (Nokia) rubber boots from 1926.

 

[Robson Valley]

Another place to look for extremely accurate time frames will be the manifests (records) for the Hudson's Bay Company.
They had the reputation of recording _everything_.

 

[sunndog]

Another place to look for extremely accurate time frames will be the manifests (records) for the Hudson's Bay Company.
They had the reputation of recording _everything_.

Oooh good shout, i reckon i could lose a couple of days wading through that sorta stuff if i'm not careful

 

[santaman2000]

Personally here's when I consider the time frames

good steel tools - Saxon/Vikings onward

flint and steel late Iron Age / Roman until 1850s when strike anywhere matches became fairly universally available

Wool, canvas and leather clothing/sleeping gear - Bronze Age to late 1940s / early 1950s when synthetics started to replace them

"modern" packs 1930s for wide spread use, but there been designs used by mountain dwellers going back to Otzi.

Theres a good article here
https://74fdc.wordpress.com/2012/08...ks-applying-the-old-ways-to-the-new-journeys/

Thigh pockets on trousers, 1930s with British battle dress which was based on then high tech skiing clothing. trouser pockets, well if you include breaches 17th century, proper trousers late 18 th century but not common until early 19 th. Belt loops from late Iron Age / dark ages.

Oilskin jackets, earliest I've seen are 18 th century, tarred clothing earlier, Tudor/Stuart?

Rubbed soled boots not really common until WW2 but prolific by the 1950s.

Traditional personally I put down as 18 th century colonial to 1850s / end of the fur trade / black powder muzzle loaders being replaced by cartridge guns. Later stuff ( late 19th C to 1930s) I just think of as Retro as it's the sort of stuff I wander around in normally. swandris, ventile cagules, felt hats, Benny hats etc.

ATB

Tom

I think you're probably right about most of these, but I'm not so sure about the belt loops. They may well have existed as early as you suggest, but if paintings and old photos are an indication they didn't replace suspenders until around the 1930s or later.

 

[tombear]

I think you're probably right about most of these, but I'm not so sure about the belt loops. They may well have existed as early as you suggest, but if paintings and old photos are an indication they didn't replace suspenders until around the 1930s or later.

Yup, I think you are right, the Thorsburg trousers ( I've made a pair for no good reason ) definitely have them and they are what. 6 th century? and they do crop up occasionally ( 1860s firemens trousers, 1880 s onwards sportsmans clothes like baseball knickers, 1905 pic of Rodeo riders one guy has belt loops , 1903 onwards military trousers ) but definitely weren't the norm for most trousers until well after the Great War. I've watched too many westerns made in the bad old days when wardrobe staff weren't so fussy!

Yeah, there were wellingtons and various waders made from rubber and the first rubber soles were in the 1890s but for shoes and boots leather, either with metal studs or not we're vastly more common as a sole material until WW2 and the masive expansion in the industry to cater for the military demand for Jungle and Commando / Mountain boots. Certainly in the latter case these were just rubber outer soles nailed or screwed to the leather soles of traditional boots. The rubber was pretty poor stuff and only issued for extreme conditions as the hob nailed leather soled boots lasted so much better. For the Korean War they brought out the Cold Wet Weather boot with a rubber sole ( still basically a Ammo boot with a rubber sole added to it) and it wasn't until the 60s we started using direct moulded soles, although other countries got there first and no doubt there were high end civilian mountain boots that were more modern in design.

Atb

tom

 

[Bishop]

The 'Inconveniences' or list of supplies each of the Virginia colonists of 1622 was supposed to take is also available online:
http://www.learnnc.org/lp/editions/nchist-colonial/5338

 

[forrestdweller]

Another place to look for extremely accurate time frames will be the manifests (records) for the Hudson's Bay Company.
They had the reputation of recording _everything_.

maybe not exactly bushcraft, but the roman legionnaires were nicknamed "" marius' mules"" as they had to carry a full load of supplies on top of their weaponry/armor while on march- if not in a garrison they were out camping....

 

[Gcckoka]

You should take a look at Trapper Nelson Pack , I think it looks like a traditional bushcraft pack and is very good

 

[forestwalker]

One thing that appears to be universal for bushcraft is fire, so...

Humans -- or what passed for humans back then -- began using fire about 2 million years ago.

 

[Tiley]

Arguably, there is no such thing as 'bushcraft kit'. Bushcraft is an activity in which we use a certain amount of kit. Since 'bushcraft' is a relatively recent concept - christened by Richard Graves? - you could say that 'bushcraft kit', even traditional varieties of it, started then. I'm pretty sure that the Romans, Vikings, folk in previous centuries and whoever else from earlier times didn't stop and label absolute necessities as useful for bushcraft; they were things needed in order to survive or function in greater comfort in their given time. Necessity has always been the Mother of Invention; we have simply rebranded it to suit our own pastime.

 

[sunndog]

Arguably, there is no such thing as 'bushcraft kit'.

there is, because thats what we call it and use it for. I'm not a roman or an 18th century trapper so i don't refer to my hobby as they would to thier way of life
i didn't want to start a "what is bushcraft" type thread. The fact that what is a hobby to us was everyday life to others and we don't NEED to do it has been done to death dude

 

[Janne]

What we call bushcraft was everyday life for previous generations.
Take the simple task of lighting fire. Our standard way is a ligter or match.
Our Bushcraft way is a steel and flint.
Our bushcraft way was the standard way untill 125/150 years ago.

 

[Tiley]

there is, because thats what we call it and use it for. I'm not a roman or an 18th century trapper so i don't refer to my hobby as they would to thier way of life
i didn't want to start a "what is bushcraft" type thread. The fact that what is a hobby to us was everyday life to others and we don't NEED to do it has been done to death dude

I take your point. However, at no stage was I asking 'what is bushcraft?': as you state so directly, it has been done to death. It was not the point I was actually trying to make. Still, in the interest of the continuity of your thread, I'll shut up.

 

[Janne]

Sorry, same mistake done here.
Being no "real bushcrafter" like so many here, for me times stopped 40 years ago. So no electronics, and mainly natural materials like cotton, feathers, metal and leather. Going ultra light.

Not for the sake of nostalgy, but because that is what I am trained with, I feel most comfortable with.