Lofty wiseman type survival pouch question

[sandbender]

"...and I've put together a survival tin and I'm currently putting together an accompanying pouch like in the sas survival guide with a mess tin...main backpack or is the mess tin and hexy cooker...."

"...It's not actually going to be used for the uk, I'm going travelling next year and I'm going to be going off the beaten track if it were..."

You are putting too much thought an effort into what you imagine you might be getting up to out in the world.

You do not need a survival tin, pouch, hexi fuel etc.

You need to have a good few phrases in the languages used in the countries you plan to visit.
You need a very comfortable 'non gucci and new' looking backpack of around 50 litres.
You need a nice pocket knife that won't look like a weapon to border control agents and police officers.
You may need a camera and a notebook.

If this is a long journey to faraway places expect to lose most of the stuff you leave the UK with, don't worry about it. Everything you will need can be found, bought, traded for or improvised pretty much anywhere.

Have fun, post some pictures or write about your time on the forum when you return.

 

[Bladeophile]

Thanks Dreadhead
Wingstoo - you made me smile with your comment about "we are bushcrafters.......and nothing really happening in the woods etc" Smile – because of all the countless kit vids I’ve watched so far.
I would love to be able to go along with this idea, and if I did - guess all I'd carry is a knife, a lighter, some water, some grub, raincoat etc
I guess your comment made me ponder a central question. Central because perhaps billions of $$'s of survival goodies are being turned over in the US and UK due to the populous being effectively convinced that a little innocent play in the wilderness could turn really UGLY! Some would say the marketing guys are doing a great job. It’s like - You shouldn’t even be out there without your mili bandana, badass gun and your maxpedition pack crammed with the latest survival gizmos. Youtube is crammed with these vids.
The Q is - what if it really did all turn sour? Something clean out of the blue.
People are endevouring to address this Q by buying kit, kit and More Kit. The spectrum runs from the ultralights all the way up to NUTNFANCY packing a 95 Lbs loadout! Amazingly even this is eclipsed by the SAS ‘fridge’ size bergen.
Guess it prompted these realizations re J.W’s cutting edge system
1. It costs so little to make – perhaps just a few quid if you shop around, thus negating the need to buy all these high priced must haves. Do it dirt cheap - why not?
2. It works for pro soldier, bushcrafter and harmless picnicker alike (as long as they have learned how to use the items and get the most from them.)
3. Should the ‘impossible’ happen (and it seems to) none will be left empty handed.

Just some thoughts – not written in stone.
I agree with carrying money/credit card. The times I've forgotten these!!!

 

[Goatboy]

They can be fun, just like the games we had as kids trying to get as many different items in a matchbox as possible.

It still seems to be causing a few people difficulty understanding that the SAS survival hand book and it's contents are not aimed at civvies, it's whole concept was written for Special forces operatives in hostile situations.

If civvy folks want to try and emulate to it that is up to them, but don't confuse the two activities, the likelihood of a Bush crafter going for a weekend in the woods and becoming stuck behind enemy lines is going to be pretty remote, unless you are in a "Red Dawn" invasion...


If you are heading into unknown territory as the OP has stated he is doing it is a good idea to have a back-up kit, just in case... But if you are so confident that your personal trip is so run of the mill that you don't need one then don't bother, just pack a few £/$20 notes in your wallet, and a spare battery for your mobile/cell and you will be fine, after all your not a member of the Elite forces going behind enemy lines are you? Nope, you are a Bush crafter in the local woods where nothing really happens

He should really get his publishers to tell the sellers off about how they promote it then: -

"Whether you are a camper, a hiker, a sailor, or anyone else engaged in outdoor pursuits, this reference bible could actually save your life."

And on the BACK COVER: -

"John ‘Lofty’ Wiseman served for 26 years with the Special Air Service (SAS) and his best-selling book is based on the training techniques of the world’s most famous elite fighting force.
This definitive guide shows you how to survive in the wild, in any climate, on land or at sea, for campers, hikers, sailors and all those interested in outdoor pursuits."

 

[wingstoo]

And on the BACK COVER: -

"John ‘Lofty’ Wiseman served for 26 years with the Special Air Service (SAS) and his best-selling book is based on the training techniques of the world’s most famous elite fighting force.
This definitive guide shows you how to survive in the wild, in any climate, on land or at sea, for campers, hikers, sailors and all those interested in outdoor pursuits."

You have the later version then, the early versions didn't have all that as you have quoted, the original only had three lines which I quoted earlier... and a list of the contents. The original was, repeated yet again, "Their complete course: how to survive outdoors, on land or sea, in any weather in any part of the world".


But then again, the book was the SAS survival course written by J.W. and then he was given permission to publish it to the open world, so it has over the years been promoted as something different to what it originally was...Bit like Bush craft really, it depends what sells and makes more money...

I'll put your comments to him though... Maybe he will listen like he did for the Bush craft show when he spoke to folks on here about Drew... How else do you think he found out...

 

[Goatboy]

You have the later version then, the early versions didn't have all that as you have quoted, the original only had three lines which I quoted earlier... and a list of the contents. The original was, repeated yet again, "Their complete course: how to survive outdoors, on land or sea, in any weather in any part of the world".


But then again, the book was the SAS survival course written by J.W. and then he was given permission to publish it to the open world, so it has over the years been promoted as something different to what it originally was...Bit like Bush craft really, it depends what sells and makes more money...

I'll put your comments to him though... Maybe he will listen like he did for the Bush craft show when he spoke to folks on here about Drew... How else do you think he found out...

Wingstoo, I wasn't having a go by the way. And talk to Mr. Wiseman if you wish. The book for me is just another source of information. I use books, websites, people and groups from all walks of life to build up my knowledge, most totally unrelated to Bushcraft. It's called education. If it helps and informs I really don't care who it was aimed at. All I was doing was pointing out what it said on the back cover of the book. And yes he seems a great man but I don't hold his word as the reverential word of god.

Have a great MOOT but don't bother the chap on my ramblings.

ATB,
GB.

 

[sandbag47]

They can be fun, just like the games we had as kids trying to get as many different items in a matchbox as possible.

It still seems to be causing a few people difficulty understanding that the SAS survival hand book and it's contents are not aimed at civvies, it's whole concept was written for Special forces operatives in hostile situations.

If civvy folks want to try and emulate to it that is up to them, but don't confuse the two activities, the likelihood of a Bush crafter going for a weekend in the woods and becoming stuck behind enemy lines is going to be pretty remote, unless you are in a "Red Dawn" invasion

I like what Ray mears says about what you need to pack:-

Something to carry your outfit in.
Smoothing to sleep under.
Something to sleep in.
Something to sleep on.
Navigational equipment.
Something to cook over.
Something to cook in.
Something to carry water.
A mug.
Eating utensils.
Food.
Medical kit.
Illuminated at night.
Wash kit.
Odds and ends to make life comfortable - 'possibles'
Clothing

That's a bit more civvy and less escape and evasion

 

[Dark Horse Dave]

I like what Ray mears says about what you need to pack:-

Something to carry your outfit in.
Smoothing to sleep under.
Something to sleep in.
Something to sleep on.
Navigational equipment.
Something to cook over.
Something to cook in.
Something to carry water.
A mug.
Eating utensils.
Food.
Medical kit.
Illuminated at night.
Wash kit.
Odds and ends to make life comfortable - 'possibles'
Clothing

That's a bit more civvy and less escape and evasion

This is the one bit of Ray Mears' books that I continually go back to, as a very handy checklist to make sure a) I've got everything I need for a trip and b) I'm am not taking any unnecessary "just in case" stuff!

 

[Tengu]

Well, that's funny, I first got a copy of his book when I was a teen in the 1980s.

If I had thought it was to do with the military, I would have discarded it; no interest.

But I believed it was relevant to me.

Never needed to use it, of course, but if I ever went into the wilds, I would take the pocket version.

As for planning...

Well, I have Aspergers, things are fine, until I have a setback or come up against the unexpected. My brain goes dead.

So I try to plan things and prepare for eventualities. Little things like finding out where the garage is when on holiday. (Its amazing the things a garage will do for you, like charge batteries, test them, straighten metal tent poles...They are often good for local info too.)

When I was in Cornwall my tent (a big old frame tent) blew over, it looked a complete disaster, but I knew where the camping store was, I got extra guys and pegs, plus new springs, and the garage straightened the poles while I had a pasty.

What could have been an end to my holiday was sorted out with careful preparedness

 

[JonathanD]

Well, that's funny, I first got a copy of his book when I was a teen in the 1980s.

If I had thought it was to do with the military, I would have discarded it; no interest.

But I believed it was relevant to me.

You obviously missed the title.. SAS Survival

 

[Chiseller]

What's to laugh your **** off at ? It's not a military book. It's aimed at common folk and available to common folk. The title was merely a reference to his time serving and what knowledge he wanted to share, which didn't entirely come from a completely military background .

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[wingstoo]

What's to laugh your **** off at ? It's not a military book. It's aimed at common folk and available to common folk. The title was merely a reference to his time serving and what knowledge he wanted to share, which didn't entirely come from a completely military background .

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

[The Lord Poncho]

In it's time it was an almost encyclopedic collection of techniques, gleaned from various sources. By it's nature, many of those sources were military manuals from one nation or another (UK, and US featuring predominantly). A lot of thinking has now moved on, and some of the techniques and strategies within the manual are outdated and no longer taught by the military. Still, it's fun to try them!

I'm sure the books title has an awful lot to do with the desire to shift the maximum number of copies and build up a nice retirement pot!

These days, Colin Towells' book is definitely at the top of my list. Excellent.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Survival-Ha...5090449&sr=1-4&keywords=The+Survival+Handbook

 

[wingstoo]

In it's time it was an almost encyclopedic collection of techniques, gleaned from various sources. By it's nature, many of those sources were military manuals from one nation or another (UK, and US featuring predominantly). A lot of thinking has now moved on, and some of the techniques and strategies within the manual are outdated and no longer taught by the military. Still, it's fun to try them!

I'm sure the books title has an awful lot to do with the desire to shift the maximum number of copies and build up a nice retirement pot!

These days, Colin Towells' book is definitely at the top of my list. Excellent.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Survival-Ha...5090449&sr=1-4&keywords=The+Survival+Handbook

 

[MikeLA]

In it's time it was an almost encyclopedic collection of techniques, gleaned from various sources. By it's nature, many of those sources were military manuals from one nation or another (UK, and US featuring predominantly). A lot of thinking has now moved on, and some of the techniques and strategies within the manual are outdated and no longer taught by the military. Still, it's fun to try them!

I'm sure the books title has an awful lot to do with the desire to shift the maximum number of copies and build up a nice retirement pot!

These days, Colin Towells' book is definitely at the top of my list. Excellent.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Survival-Ha...5090449&sr=1-4&keywords=The+Survival+Handbook

To me Colins book is sadly just another re-hash at copying from previous survival books and Ive read a lot. Loftys may seem outdated but its kept in the Keep it Simple way and still enough of a relevance in 2013

 

[The Lord Poncho]

To a sensitive person, your response to my post may be construed as being rude. You obviously (and mistakenly) think I'm saying something negative about John - who you obviously idolise. Sitting in someones kitchen and having a chat (which clearly means a lot to you judging by how often you write about it) doesn't mean you can be rude and dismissive when other people voice a varying opinion. You may wish to consider being a little more mature in some of your responses. And please don't presume that I am entirely unqualified in the world of military survival and the various organisations which both utilise the current training, and input into it.

 

[sycamour]

To a sensitive person, your response to my post may be construed as being rude. You obviously (and mistakenly) think I'm saying something negative about John - who you obviously idolise. Sitting in someones kitchen and having a chat (which clearly means a lot to you judging by how often you write about it) doesn't mean you can be rude and dismissive when other people voice a varying opinion. You may wish to consider being a little more mature in some of your responses. And please don't presume that I am entirely unqualified in the world of military survival and the various organisations which both utilise the current training, and input into it.

Well said and exactly my thoughts Lord Poncho

 

[Chiseller]

To a sensitive person, your response to my post may be construed as being rude. You obviously (and mistakenly) think I'm saying something negative about John - who you obviously idolise. Sitting in someones kitchen and having a chat (which clearly means a lot to you judging by how often you write about it) doesn't mean you can be rude and dismissive when other people voice a varying opinion. You may wish to consider being a little more mature in some of your responses. And please don't presume that I am entirely unqualified in the world of military survival and the various organisations which both utilise the current training, and input into it.

Just as Mr D's reply was to tengus post, imo .

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[ged]

I do hope we aren't giving Tom a bad impression on his first contact with BCUK.

Tom, it isn't always like this, but some subjects seem to generate more emotion than others. Looks like you picked one of them.

 

[Tom89]

Haha no worries, atleast I'm getting a nice mix of opinions!

 

[sargey]

Well getting back to the OP a little.....

I think that the "thou shalt not own a survival tin" brigade are missing the point. Several points in fact.

I always carry a PSK/survival tin where ever i go. (But it's not actually a tin) It's a little collection of back-up items and repair kit.

The contents of that/those kits have saved the day on several occasions over the years. Both up the hills and back down in the synthetic world. Including a few hilarious moments, sewing up skirts and re-attching skirt buttons in the office at work. Enabling an HGV mechanic mate to repair another mates car late one night. Reparing broken zip pulls in the middle of a hooley on cadair idris. The list is long...

I'm told by those old enough to remember ('cause i'm not obviously) that there once tv ad's depicting a young chap who found himself teleported into an escape and evasion stiuation, with nothing but a tobacco tin kit for company. The ads were for a survival magazine. I get the feeling that the "thou shalt not own a survival tin" brigade are actually a bunch of walter mittys who secretly hope the tv ad scenario might just happen! But they're so far in denial that they keep repressing their inner urges! Lol. And attempting to repress other peoples urges just to be on the safe side!

You never know.....

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