Knives and the Law

[Toddy]

To me my knives are tools, just like my thimble or my trowel....but, I use my knives in public places and I carry them (frequently on public transport, like trains and underground) from place to place or into woodlands and fields, parks and schools too.
I'm insured for public liability and cleared by Disclosure Scotland. If I'm in trouble with the law at any time it'll cause me endless headaches and a fair amount of money.
What am I legally allowed to carry, to use, and where?

A good link would be helpful, there are lots of us do these hands on traditional handcraft events.

Thanks,

Toddy

 

[tomtom]

http://www.britishblades.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=52

 

[Toddy]

Brilliant TomTom, many thanks.
Now, does my wee Opinel pocket knife count as a *lock* knife or not?
Gotta go do some more reading
Toddy

 

[hootchi]

Does the blade lock into position, does it need a catch released to fold it back again?

 

[tomtom]

which opinal is it.. a lot of them are lock knives in the eyes of the law.

 

[Toddy]

It's got a ring that has to be turned to allow the blade to close into the handle, and this same ring stops the blade folding shut on my fingers. I don't know which model it is, but the blade is only just shy of three inches long. It's an incredibly robust and useful tool, takes a good edge and keeps it too.....wasn't expensive either. Damn it, I even carry it in my handbag....it's ideal for pruning and cuttings too. I've had it now for about 15 years.
I know why we have these laws, but surely there must be some reliable recourse to, "It's a tool, not a weapon"?

I suddenly see why the leatherman and it's clones are so popular.

I used to be a scout leader,(looong time ago) every kid came to camp with enormous knives and we didn't have to bury even one of them...used a lot of elastoplast though.
Toddy

 

[Tony]

Have a read of this Toddy bcuk Law article

 

[hootchi]

Nice one Tone....:super:

 

[Ts1spoc]

TomTom, I read the sticky on British Blades with the letter to the postal service arguing the definition of a particular knife. I had to stop and think what precipitated the move to limiting the knives that are available and what you can carry a knife. In the US the limiting factors for machine guns was brought about by the 1920's gangsters and the fact that they were a weapon of choice for mobsters and their enforcers. The government felt that if they required the full auto weapons to be registered they could control who possessed them. In places in America the Most of the switchblades I have run into on the street are so poor that they are dangerous to the wielder as well as the target.

 

[Tantalus]

the ring makes it a locking folder in the eyes of the law

you may carry a locking knife if you have good reason

good reasons are suggested by the law as work related reasons

camping backpacking etc would most likely be acceptable

taking it to the pub "just because you always carry a knife" is a definite nono

of course the likelihood of being asked to empty your pockets by a passing police officer depend on many things, but this does not alter the law

the only knife you may legally carry with you without good reason is a folding knife with no lock and has a blade that is under 3 inches

even then, taking it out and waving it around in public will get you into trouble

funnily enough plastic knives - you know the disposable ones - are illegal in public too

sitting on a park bench making up sarnies with a plastic knife could get you arrested :yikes:

nobody said the law wasn't an bottom :?:

Tant

 

[MagiKelly]

I suddenly see why the leatherman and it's clones are so popular.

Most of them have locking blades so they are a No No too. Of course they are easier to justify as a tool.

 

[Toddy]

Okaay, so my opinel is illegal unless I'm working or heading to work or I'm bushcrafting. My sheath knife is likewise, but my sons can carry sgian dubhs and dirks so long as they're wearing a kilt?????? Presumably they'd be in trouble if it looked like they were going to use them for anything though.

Basically, it seems to boil down to, "Be aware, and don't act the fool"
Swiss army types, with short blades are less likely to be commented on or considered 'suspect'; I don't like those stiff multi tool things, they're uncomfortable to work with for long and my nails just aren't strong enough to open them easily.

Thanks for all the advice and links people, much appreciated.
Toddy

 

[bambodoggy]

I suddenly see why the leatherman and it's clones are so popular.

I know what you're saying here and I'm being a little pedantic but rather a lot of Leathermans and other multi tools have blades over 3" and also lock... Both the leathermans I've owned (and still own) are like this and although they are clearly a "tool", in the eyes of the law they cannot be carried in a public place (without valid reason) as they do not meet the 'Under 3" and folds without locking' criteria.

Remember also when talking about knives and the law that it is not only the Offensive weapons law you need to stay within but also the Points and Blades Act.

 

[Danzo]

If anyone has a specific legal question then don't hesitate to PM me here if you don't use britishblades. I'm normally lurking in the shadows, as befits a lawyer!

:roll:

Danzo

 

[Gary]

Thanks Danzo thats very nice of you mate. :biggthump

 

[Keith_Beef]

sitting on a park bench making up sarnies with a plastic knife could get you arrested :yikes:

Food preparation is a good enough reason for carry.

However, might you not run foul of some obscure and rearely enforced by-law, forbidding picknicking in a corporation park or public garden?


Keith.

 

[Tantalus]

dunno how you can say with any certainty what a good enough reason for carrying is keith :?:

please note i only said "could"

Tant

 

[Keith_Beef]

dunno how you can say with any certainty what a good enough reason for carrying is keith :?:

please note i only said "could"

Tant

I meant "good enough for me", and if I'm happy doing it, then I'm prepared to argue my case (politely, of course) with anybody, including park-keepers and policemen.

Not having a go at you, Tant, but maybe others don't know that when I mention "good reason for carry", this is shorthand for the defence in subsection (4) of Section 139 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988.

139.—(1) Subject to subsections (4) and (5) below, any person who has an article to which this section applies with him in a public place shall be guilty of an offence.

(2) Subject to subsection (3) below, this section applies to any article which has a blade or is sharply pointed except a folding pocketknife.

(3) This section applies to a folding pocketknife if the cutting edge of its blade exceeds 3 inches.

(4) It shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that he had good reason or lawful authority for having the article with him in a public place.

(5) Without prejudice to the generality of subsection (4) above, it shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that he had the article with him—

(a) for use at work;

(b) for religious reasons; or

(c) as part of any national costume.

(6) A person guilty of an offence under subsection (1) above shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale.

(7) In this section "public place" includes any place to which at the material time the public have or are permitted access, whether on payment or otherwise.

(8) This section shall not have effect in relation to anything done before it comes into force.

The 1996 amendment adds some more restrictions concerning school premises, and adds a specific defence of "for educational reasons".

Keith.

 

[bambodoggy]

Just to be pedantic....do you think you might get away with a knife larger than 3inches if you claimed not to know what an inch was....clearly I'm only talking hyperthetically here...
There have been cases of Trading standards taking shop keepers and market traders to court for using imperial measurements instead of the Metric system so surely the legal system is equally guilty and therefore in need of revision before a conviction can be made.....?

This is sort of retorical as a question as I don't for a minute think this would work in reality but I'm just interested what people think?

Smacks of double standards to me... in the same court one person could be convicted for using imperial measurements and in the next case another could get a conviction for not adearing to them!!!! Madness! lol ):

 

[Danzo]

Ignorance of the law is no excuse, I'm afraid.



Danzo