I should have got permission to forage!
- Thread starter Toadflax
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Years ago, a few of us were in Evesham and decided to go on a mushroom hunt. So anyway we were quietly mooching round this wood for an hour or two, but had to cross open ground to get to the next wood. half way across and we see this cloud of dust, as a range rover hurtles towards us and skids to halt, with some lord of the manor type matey, asking what we are doing.
we explained that we were simply collecting mushrooms and a few berries, and he said thats all well and good but were we aware that this was private land. When i told him i disagree with land ownership, he nearly had a fit, and started coughing and spluttering about how his ancestors had fought for this land, to which a mate of mine replied. . . "no worries mate, get out the motor nd i'l fight you for it now" another cloud of dust as he wheelspan away and the rest of our forage turned into an E+E exercise from the posse he must have franticly assembled
we explained that we were simply collecting mushrooms and a few berries, and he said thats all well and good but were we aware that this was private land. When i told him i disagree with land ownership, he nearly had a fit, and started coughing and spluttering about how his ancestors had fought for this land, to which a mate of mine replied. . . "no worries mate, get out the motor nd i'l fight you for it now" another cloud of dust as he wheelspan away and the rest of our forage turned into an E+E exercise from the posse he must have franticly assembled
Hi Toadflax,
In this case i think you have to way up the pro's & cons, does the Lady have other valuble food stuffs you may fancy, if so maybe it might be worth asking round the neighbourhood if anyone knows the Lady & find out her favourite tipple or food or flowers, then go round with them as a sincere appology, or offer to volunteer your services in the leaf sweeping department, or dare i say fence fixing, after all it's only nails or screws & a hammer, I find this works a treat when i want shooting permission
In this case i think you have to way up the pro's & cons, does the Lady have other valuble food stuffs you may fancy, if so maybe it might be worth asking round the neighbourhood if anyone knows the Lady & find out her favourite tipple or food or flowers, then go round with them as a sincere appology, or offer to volunteer your services in the leaf sweeping department, or dare i say fence fixing, after all it's only nails or screws & a hammer, I find this works a treat when i want shooting permission
I always wonder if it's worthwhile asking for proof of ownership in these circumstances. Anybody know the strict legal position on prooving ownership (literally) in the field?
Another tack is to suggest that all creatures and land was created by God. And God said the meek shall inherit the Earth. And I'm meek. Religeous fervour often scares people into running.
These plans only work if you can keep a straight face though.
Another tack is to suggest that all creatures and land was created by God. And God said the meek shall inherit the Earth. And I'm meek. Religeous fervour often scares people into running.
These plans only work if you can keep a straight face though.
Where does this line of thought/thinking come from? This ***the land belongs to all "the people", and "the people" can do anything they want on it any time them want*** attitude?
Does that mean I can come into your home/apartment any time I want and "forage" for anything I might take a fancy to? Just because ALL property/land belongs to ALL "the people"?
That land is the same as your home, your back yard, your garden. The only difference is location. And that IN YOUR FACE attitude about YOUR interpretation of YOUR rights trumping everybody else's personal property rights doesn't help.
Climbing over a fence or opening a gate to get through, and then taking those nuts is still --- breaking and entering to then commit theft of an agricultural crop! It's the same thing as someone walking through your front door, going to your fridge, and walking out with all your beer and munchies! Before you blatantly dismiss this, think carefully about what I just said.
And ANYBODY showing me that IN YOUR FACE attitude about their "rights" to my property gets to talk to the county sheriff about charges for criminal trespass, vandalism, and assualt!
So YOU need to view and treat other people's land/property just as if they wanted to do the same thing to your place. Would YOU want anybody else wandering into your back yard by climbing over the fence or opening the gate and then to help themselves to pick up all the chestnuts from your tree? Possibly then to wander over and pick things out of YOUR garden? And what would you do if they then gave you a lot of IN YOUR FACE attitude about the "rights" to do so and demanded that YOU prove you own/control that back yard?
Think through the ... attitude and concepts ... that you are advocating. Think carefully.
Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands
Does that mean I can come into your home/apartment any time I want and "forage" for anything I might take a fancy to? Just because ALL property/land belongs to ALL "the people"?
That land is the same as your home, your back yard, your garden. The only difference is location. And that IN YOUR FACE attitude about YOUR interpretation of YOUR rights trumping everybody else's personal property rights doesn't help.
Climbing over a fence or opening a gate to get through, and then taking those nuts is still --- breaking and entering to then commit theft of an agricultural crop! It's the same thing as someone walking through your front door, going to your fridge, and walking out with all your beer and munchies! Before you blatantly dismiss this, think carefully about what I just said.
And ANYBODY showing me that IN YOUR FACE attitude about their "rights" to my property gets to talk to the county sheriff about charges for criminal trespass, vandalism, and assualt!
So YOU need to view and treat other people's land/property just as if they wanted to do the same thing to your place. Would YOU want anybody else wandering into your back yard by climbing over the fence or opening the gate and then to help themselves to pick up all the chestnuts from your tree? Possibly then to wander over and pick things out of YOUR garden? And what would you do if they then gave you a lot of IN YOUR FACE attitude about the "rights" to do so and demanded that YOU prove you own/control that back yard?
Think through the ... attitude and concepts ... that you are advocating. Think carefully.
Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands
Mikey, a couple of nuts off a tree in my opinion is not something to get worked up about. An actual crop is something entirely different. Does she get upset when the squirrels take the chestnuts? If it were an agricultural crop, she'd be making damned sure a pest species wasn't nicking them. I agree with what you say on damaging property, cutting fences and leaving rubbish, but when a fellow is gathering a few nuts, thinking he is in the right and the owner comes out and goes off on one without even asking what is going on, well I think that's just plain arrogance.
I don't want to be the cause of this thread going to lock down though, so maybe we should all drop the land ownership and access rights line of discussion and try and figure out how Geoff should best get back on the land with full rights to gather those nuts (apart from the big nut that owns the land!)
I don't want to be the cause of this thread going to lock down though, so maybe we should all drop the land ownership and access rights line of discussion and try and figure out how Geoff should best get back on the land with full rights to gather those nuts (apart from the big nut that owns the land!
)Dont beat yourself up Toadflax,
Who knows what **** she has going on. Let it go. It was a genuine mistake, her attitude has changed not yours.
Who knows what **** she has going on. Let it go. It was a genuine mistake, her attitude has changed not yours.
To be absolutely honest, I'm not sure I really want to bother going back on the land. After peeling the chestnuts this evening and getting painful shell splinters under my thumbnail, I'm wondering for yet another year if they are really worth the effort.
However, I like to gather some each year because it is part of a tradition that goes back close on 2000 years, since when the Romans introduced the tree to Britain. Unlike a cash crop (I would no more take a carrot from a farmer's field than I would take his tractor) chestnuts are like blackberries, part of the hedgerow harvest that has been gathered by native Britons for many hundreds of years. It will be (is now?) a sad day when land owners enforce their rights so strictly that ancient traditions like this are compelled to stop.
I simply reported what had happened as a mild warning to others here of the consequences of crossing a gate. Unlike one interpretation of my original posting I don't need to "cut the sob story", because the introductory line (and intended message) of my posting was
Lesson learned.
I don't want this thread to degenerate into a dispute of land rights - if you want to discuss such issues then I suggest that you start another thread.
I made an assumption based on an invitation last year to gather chestnuts from someone's land, and that assumption was incorrect. I was in error in going onto the land this year, I left when asked, and that is that as far as I am concerned.
Thank you to those who have offered sensible comments, but remember that I only made the original posting. If the thread digresses onto other issues, that is not my doing.
Geoff
However, I like to gather some each year because it is part of a tradition that goes back close on 2000 years, since when the Romans introduced the tree to Britain. Unlike a cash crop (I would no more take a carrot from a farmer's field than I would take his tractor) chestnuts are like blackberries, part of the hedgerow harvest that has been gathered by native Britons for many hundreds of years. It will be (is now?) a sad day when land owners enforce their rights so strictly that ancient traditions like this are compelled to stop.
I simply reported what had happened as a mild warning to others here of the consequences of crossing a gate. Unlike one interpretation of my original posting I don't need to "cut the sob story", because the introductory line (and intended message) of my posting was
toadflax said:
Lesson learned.
I don't want this thread to degenerate into a dispute of land rights - if you want to discuss such issues then I suggest that you start another thread.
I made an assumption based on an invitation last year to gather chestnuts from someone's land, and that assumption was incorrect. I was in error in going onto the land this year, I left when asked, and that is that as far as I am concerned.
Thank you to those who have offered sensible comments, but remember that I only made the original posting. If the thread digresses onto other issues, that is not my doing.
Geoff
to which a mate of mine replied. . . "no worries mate, get out the motor nd i'l fight you for it now" another cloud of dust as he wheelspan away and the rest of our forage turned into an E+E exercise from the posse he must have franticly assembled
Just fell off my chair
Hi Geoff.
Sorry to hear about your experience and equally sorry to read some of the comments here!
Mike Ameling may have put the record straight.
I have suffered similar incidents with MOtP being on ground where it is a problem. Usually it ends pleasantly, although in certain situations one has to resort to other legal methods and this usually involves the 'Boys in Blue'. There is often a vehicle nearby!
I would reccommend to anyone that asking first is usually the way to go as to say no is (in my opinion) really quite difficult! There is the other side too such as fences cut and other very good reasons to say no but nine times out of ten both parties go away with a smile!
You are very welcome to visit and forage under the local chestnut trees here, but as these are now getting on for 300 years old, the fruit is not what it used to be.
Look forward to seeing you in the near future.
Swyn.
Sorry to hear about your experience and equally sorry to read some of the comments here!
Mike Ameling may have put the record straight.
I have suffered similar incidents with MOtP being on ground where it is a problem. Usually it ends pleasantly, although in certain situations one has to resort to other legal methods and this usually involves the 'Boys in Blue'. There is often a vehicle nearby!
I would reccommend to anyone that asking first is usually the way to go as to say no is (in my opinion) really quite difficult! There is the other side too such as fences cut and other very good reasons to say no but nine times out of ten both parties go away with a smile!
You are very welcome to visit and forage under the local chestnut trees here, but as these are now getting on for 300 years old, the fruit is not what it used to be.
Look forward to seeing you in the near future.
Swyn.
Sorry, Goeff. My comments were more directed towards some people where were getting kind of ... militant ... about "their rights", and starting to suggest some dark-of-night raiding.
The easiest way to view this is from the other person's point of view. What would your view be if somebody was doing the same thing to you in your back yard? Even if you had met them one time a year ago and given permission then? Would you instantly remember them?
How many people here could remain calm when yet another person climbed over their fence (or went through their closed gate), and went into their back yard to pick up nuts from their tree in their own back yard? How many of you could remain calm? Especially if a bunch of other people had been doing the same thing recently - including damaging your fence?
You realized and acknowleged your error. And you apoligized for it. And the best way to proceed is to ask permission in the future. You might get it, you might not.
I have a friend who kind of operates on a philosophy of "it is easier to ask forgiveness than to get permission". Yes, he gets in trouble a lot, but usually nothing serious comes out of it. And he is a small town city cop - who generally works the graveyard shift - dealing with all the drunks at bar closing time, and the domestic disputes an hour later! Yes, he does a lot of apologizing - after the fact.
Sorry for the pi**y mood. I've been dealing with some jerkizoid "great trout fishermen" this weekend. They all watched that movie A River Runs Through It, and think/act like they are God's gift to the trout fishing world - and can do no wrong! And all on other people's land ta boot. At least they don't have the usual 4x4 ATV trespassmobiles intent on tearing up all the grass in the pasture! And NO, permission is not automatically given just because they asked politely - as too many believe.
Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands
- at least I got to hear some Sandhill Cranes flying by overhead - on their migration route.
The easiest way to view this is from the other person's point of view. What would your view be if somebody was doing the same thing to you in your back yard? Even if you had met them one time a year ago and given permission then? Would you instantly remember them?
How many people here could remain calm when yet another person climbed over their fence (or went through their closed gate), and went into their back yard to pick up nuts from their tree in their own back yard? How many of you could remain calm? Especially if a bunch of other people had been doing the same thing recently - including damaging your fence?
You realized and acknowleged your error. And you apoligized for it. And the best way to proceed is to ask permission in the future. You might get it, you might not.
I have a friend who kind of operates on a philosophy of "it is easier to ask forgiveness than to get permission". Yes, he gets in trouble a lot, but usually nothing serious comes out of it. And he is a small town city cop - who generally works the graveyard shift - dealing with all the drunks at bar closing time, and the domestic disputes an hour later! Yes, he does a lot of apologizing - after the fact.
Sorry for the pi**y mood. I've been dealing with some jerkizoid "great trout fishermen" this weekend. They all watched that movie A River Runs Through It, and think/act like they are God's gift to the trout fishing world - and can do no wrong! And all on other people's land ta boot. At least they don't have the usual 4x4 ATV trespassmobiles intent on tearing up all the grass in the pasture! And NO, permission is not automatically given just because they asked politely - as too many believe.
Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands
- at least I got to hear some Sandhill Cranes flying by overhead - on their migration route.
BOD
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Not wishing to stir the pot further, but, while I strongly sympathise with landowners and problems of trepass nevertheless the situation has risen because the wealthly and the gentry were able to acquire land due to a legal and economic system that favoured those with access to influence and the knowledge how to use the system to therir benefit. (We are talking about Britain here Mikey not necesarily the US).
Now those who want to enjoy nature and collect the traditional natures bounty find it difficult to do so and I also sympathise with them. They are in a similar situation to wildlife in most parts of the world - with no rights, shrinking access to 'traditional ' hunting and foraging land and faced with retribution (gunfire/traps) when they 'stray' onto human 'owned' land.
How poor geoff was treated is nothing to what we do when we take land away from the local fauna and flora.
Now those who want to enjoy nature and collect the traditional natures bounty find it difficult to do so and I also sympathise with them. They are in a similar situation to wildlife in most parts of the world - with no rights, shrinking access to 'traditional ' hunting and foraging land and faced with retribution (gunfire/traps) when they 'stray' onto human 'owned' land.
How poor geoff was treated is nothing to what we do when we take land away from the local fauna and flora.
Tarring all land owners with one brush a bit there BOD!
Are you saying that the land my Grandad bought, with money, and then worked all his life on to make a living, inhereted by my Dad and Uncle who likewise have worked all their lives on should be open to all and saundry to do what they want on?
Are you saying that the land my Grandad bought, with money, and then worked all his life on to make a living, inhereted by my Dad and Uncle who likewise have worked all their lives on should be open to all and saundry to do what they want on?
I can sympathise with both sides here BUT you have to get permission to go on to private land , and then act responsibly. This week end we ran a basic course in our private woodland. We keep a few shelters in the woods for demonstrations, examples etc. I took the students to one shelter to find that we had had 'visitors'. These individuals (politest name) had come on to the land (without permission) used the shelter (without permission) and left their empty beer cans, and other rubbish ( 2 bin bags full) at the site. I tracked them to back to the spot where they had broken the fence to get in, and then to a fire site that had scorched a number of trees.So if you ask me my opinion, stay out unless you have the correct permissions. The land owner probably won't give a flying fig about your intentions, skill level, and interests in the great outdoors etc. Land owners have to protect their investment, livelihood etc. Would you like it if someone came into your garden to pick your flowers or use your lawn to picnic?
I'd send her a carrot cake or something with a nice card apologising and offer her a split of whatever you gather if she'll allow you.
