I should have got permission to forage!

[Toadflax]

Although what happened this morning was a tiny, trivial incident, it does go to show that if you don't have permission, don't do it, because it can spoil it for everyone.

I got up very early this morning to go out for a bimble in the woods and watch the sun rise, I cooked my breakfast, and had a nice wander around. I drive home past a very good avenue of Sweet Chestnuts, so I stopped off to see if they were ready for collecting. There were some on the public path, and lots of good ones behind a fence.

Last year when I was gathering them on the public path, the lady who rents the field came over to me and invited me (without any prompting) into the field to gather chestnuts, and it was all very friendly. This morning she wasn't there, but I thought that as she had been so nice last year I'd take a chance and go and collect some from the field. Unfortunately, I hadn't been there long when a car pulled up and an irate lady told me that this was private property and that I should leave immediately.I apologised and explained that the lady who rented the field had given me permission to gather last year, and she said that it had been her but that people had been climbing in over the fence and had broken it down. I said that I had come in by the gate but she drove off to park while I left the field by the gate. As I passed her, I apologised again and said that I wouldn't have gone into the field if she hadn't invited me in last year and that I wouldn't do it again, but she still didn't soften her attitude, which was disappointing seeing she had been so nice last year.

So a nice walk out in the woods ended rather sourly.

I all honesty, it was my own fault. This is the first time I have deliberately gone onto private land to do something (and have been caught on that first occasion), but I'd made the (incorrect) assumption that because someone gave me permission last year, it would still apply this year...and if other people hadn't broken down her fence then she would probably have been more understanding.

The end result is that a fantastic resource of food is now going to rot on the ground. I think it's shame that we can't glean wild food that will go to waste otherwise, but this is England and every piece of land is owned by somebody.


Geoff

 

[BOD]

Oh well. At least you behaved well

 

[Shambling Shaman]

Oh well. At least you behaved well

Yes sounds like you came out the better person?
That said I think you raise a good point.

 

[Oblio13]

Sometimes I like to take walks at night.

 

[Shambling Shaman]

Sometimes I like to take walks at night.

without a head torch

 

[spiritofold]

Sometimes I like to take walks at night.

I'd be inclined to do the same

 

[WoodWildling]

what a grumpy sounding woman!!! *imagines throwing her own chestnuts at her* lol

 

[BorderReiver]

What a shame.

Still, you can't blame the woman can you. If idiots kept damaging my fences I wouldn't be well disposed to giving anyone permission.

If people see you in the field they think it's ok to do it too, only they don't bother to walk to the gate.

 

[Walks with dogs]

To be fair, we don't know what had happened earlier in her day.

 

[BigShot]

Can you find out who she is and where she lives?
Don't worry, I'm not suggesting anything illegal. I wonder if you would be well advised to write to her and ask again for permission (provided you use the gate of course) to glean there.
Maybe offering her a cut of any you pick would be useful. That way you get to glean and she gets chestnuts without needing to get them for herself. I believe that kind of arrangement often works well when people get shooting permissions on farmland.
Maybe suggsting a sign saying not to climb the fence would be useful. "fragile fence, pelase do not climb" or similar.

I expect a sensible approach (which you have already taken in your response to her today) would be rather helpful.

I wonder - how would that access come under "right to roam" legislation? I'm still kinda hazy on what that allows, but would it be covered?

 

[BorderReiver]

Can you find out who she is and where she lives?
Don't worry, I'm not suggesting anything illegal. I wonder if you would be well advised to write to her and ask again for permission (provided you use the gate of course) to glean there.
Maybe offering her a cut of any you pick would be useful. That way you get to glean and she gets chestnuts without needing to get them for herself. I believe that kind of arrangement often works well when people get shooting permissions on farmland.
Maybe suggsting a sign saying not to climb the fence would be useful. "fragile fence, pelase do not climb" or similar.

I expect a sensible approach (which you have already taken in your response to her today) would be rather helpful.

I wonder - how would that access come under "right to roam" legislation? I'm still kinda hazy on what that allows, but would it be covered?

Ok to walk about but not to walk off with what is technically her property.

 

[mortalmerlin]

Ok to walk about but not to walk off with what is technically her property.

Isn't there something about windfall somewhere in the far too complex law?

 

[BigShot]

Thanks for that BorderReiver. I thought that was the case. So as long as the land fell under right to roam, Toadflax had every right to be there, but not to take her chestnuts?
It seems it wasn't the chestnuts, but the "trespass" that she was concerned about so maybe this is a way forwards for the OP.
Go anyway and wave the CRoW act in her face if she complains

Personally I'd prefer the permission approach, but needs must eh.



mortalmerlin - good question.

 

[Andyre]

To be fair, we don't know what had happened earlier in her day.

Your'e quite right and after pm with Toadflax i have worked out that i may know the lady in question, The problem for her is that her fence has been damaged and an expensive horse nearly got out and is very close to a main road. In that situation i think i would not be very happy about people being on my land.

I am in no way saying what she did is right or wrong but you do have to see both sides of the story.

Positive thing is i will speak to her and see if i can calm her down and possibly get some permission for collecting

 

[littlebiglane]

I don't think Right to Roam will help in this case - I think enclosed land, especially that might be productively under cultivation of some sort, will not mean you can have right of access unless there is a PROW though it - and even then venturing off of it is not permitted.

I think it is highly laudable that you last year sought permission. This year you were 'caught' and asked permission again and this was declined. You apologised and complied her wishes (on her land) and you were polite and courteous. Many would not have been. You are a better person for it aswell. As it stands - the law might have been on her side but I think you walked away on the moral high ground. I know its not much solace but you do absolutely right.

Saying that - it would not stop me scrumping occasionally for stuff. Which is theft (not a pretty word is it). I take my chances when I do knowing the full consequences of my actions. Apart from the odd missing apple I am amongst the most law abiding people you will find

Also - I know of several land owners that have really turned against walkers and ramblers etc because of the equally high handed 'right' (whether correct or not) of access onto their land - even damaging property (like fences), littering and letting livestock loose. The acts of a few (on both sides of the argument) once again spoil it for the many.

LBL

 

[Mike Ameling]

I am the only farm place down here in this valley by the road. And the creek is a stocked trout stream. So we allow fishing along it, and allow people to walk through to the other side of the property to some State land. But some of those great ... sportsmen ... always push things a bit farther.

I've had them cut the fence - because they didn't want to walk 20 yards over to climb over it on the wood steps provided. I've had them cut apart my wire gate - just so they could DRIVE IN. I've had them open the gates and leave them open while they went on to fish farther down stream - and then "thoughtfully" close the gate on their way back through (but after the cows had already gotten out and were now locked out!

I've had those ... good sportsmen ... walk a hundred yards across the pasture and on up into the yard to pick apples off of my tree 20 feet from the house! And every spring the "professional mushroom hunters" (picking to re-sell) come through and ... vacumn ... the pasture and hills - all without asking any permission. They imply permission to do anything else they want from that granted to fish the creek.

And then there is all the trash dropped by all those ... good sportsmen!

Yeah, it can quickly sour your view of other people wanting to be on your land. And there is no "right to roam" law over here. The technical part says that you have to have written permission, but that only really gets resorted to when the problems get TOO bad. Then everybody else has to suffer the consequences of a handful of jerks.

Nut and fruit producing trees and bushes are considered "cash agricultural crops", and should always be viewed as if you were stepping into the middle of their household garden to pull up some carrots. Taking agricultural produce from somebody else's property is STEALING - unless you have been given permission. If it lays there and rots, that is their decision - NOT YOURS. That "right to roam" is not a blanket permission to .... pillage.

Yes, we still allow people to fish. Yes, we still allow them to walk through. No, we don't give permission to hunt/forage, or camp. And several individuals have been specifically banned from ever setting foot on the place. But it is sooooooo tempting to plaster every fence post with those No Trespass and POSTED signs!

So cut the sob story about some mean old lady. You did wrong. But at least you admitted it, and apologized for it. If you go back and ask for permission, you may or may not get it. Accept it and move on. You, and everybody else in the country, do not own that property - she does.

Just my ... scarred/jaded ... thoughts to share. Take them as such.

Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

 

[demographic]

Time of the month.

Meh, women go nuts every 28 days anyway, don't sweat it

 

[spamel]

I think you were acted in a truly gentlemanly way when approcahed by the land owner, I'd say it was a misunderstanding as you assumed you still had the gathering right previously given to you. Kudos to you Geoff for being civil and not starting an argument or slanging match, although having met you it becomes quite apparent that that is not your style. If it were me, I'd probably still try my luck though! At the end of the day, trespass is a civil offence, I can't see anyone taking it that far and you haven't damaged anything.

No action required from the Mods due to this post, it is what I would do and I'll reap the rewards if I make a wrong choice. I want to make it perfectly clear that if you do something, even knowing it is wrong, and become unstuck, then it's nobodys' fault but your own!

 

[ol smokey]

I had a similar experience in Perthshire some years ago. A few of us were going hillwalking, and found a vacant area to park opposite a small cottage. Iwent and Knocked the door before parking. The lady was very pleasant and said "No Problem" When we had picked up our gear from the car and were about to move off on foot, A second car not connected to us, pulled into the space beside us, which obviously belonged to this same house. The occupants of the car got out and started getting their gear on.
The same woman who had given us permission , was out of the house like a shot. She
shouted to them that they couldn park there, that that space was her property.
They responded ,that we had parked there and were obviously going up the same hill as we would be. She said to them that we had asked permission. and anyway she was expecting visitors with a car. As you point out it pays to ask, you may still get a refusal,
but it costs nothing to be polite. Incidentally as an ex copper can I point out that ( in Scotland at least) when you see a notice saying "Private Road" this just refers to
road vehicles. If you do meet anyone, pass the time of day with them , by referring to the weather or scenery. Country folk seldom pass bye without giving a greeting of some sort and it is concidered a bit rood to just pass without speaking. Courtesy costs nothing and
is generally the best way to conduct yourself in rural areas anyway.
Since the implimentation of the wildlife and access code was introduced you can walk
almost anywhere as long as you are not encroaching on peoples privacy. or interfereing
with their work. so if challenged say that you thought that this was now the law and ask how you may proceed to where you are going without causing any problems. In about
fifty or so years I have only been challenged once, and at a distance when a teenager had
a double barrelled shot gun fired into the trees over my head. I didn know I could move so fast .even then.

 

[fishfish]

ime afraid i woulv been less than polit and tld her to **** off! if the police cant attend a burglary or assault for days theyre not gonna give resources to a chap peacefully collecting chestnuts.