Can of worms..

[novembeRain]

HaHa, I'm about to open a BIG one

Not aimed at everybody here but something troubles me about some of you "bushcrafters"

Kit

Frankly, I'm surprised some of you don't invent a fold-up caravan to take with you

I've seen alsorts sofar, Tents, huge teepees (sometimes including a woodburner and large chimney) I've seen people arrive at meets towing a cart full of all manner of stuff, lanterns etc. And I know it's a favourite but the sheer effort involved in having a spit - roast pig and the way meets seem to revolve around it is phenominal not to mention rediculous No offence to those involved, and understandable at bigger meets but wouldn't your time be better spent doing what you're there to do rather than obsessing over a bl@@dy pig!?

I know, I know - we've seen RM do most of these things on telly and why not make yourself comfortable when you're out and about?

BUT, where's the whole spirit of bushcraft gone!? I thought, in many ways, the whole idea of bushcraft was to make yourself comfortable with a few essentials (knife, axe, minimal sleeping stuff and cooking stuff) and use "bush-craft" to make yourself / improvise or whatever with what's around you!?

To me, the ammount of kit some take with them is more than I'd take in my car when going to a campsite for the week in a tent with the family I'd be ashamed of myself if I felt I needed to take so much for a weekend "roughing it" in the woods :sad6:

Just an observation

 

[Tengu]

And thats not forgetting the amount of kit you take to show off or swap...

 

[sapper1]

This is the old argument "what is bushcraft".
Everyone has a different idea,mine is being in the woods and being comfortable.You have at one end of the scale the people you have described,and, at the other those who turn out with the bare minimum of kit and every level of kit in between.As long as they're happy does it really matter?
I've seen both ends of the scale,it's an eye opener to see someone with sausage ,bacon eggs, beans,fried bread and black pudding eyeing up someone elses ration pack breakfast, and vice versa.
One man will sleep on the floor in a lightweight sleeping bagand bivvi another in a hammock and tarp and yet another in a tent with a camp bed and wood burning heater.In the morning they are all happy and have had a good nights sleep,then they all have a good breakfast.
So who is to say who is right and who is wrong?
Each to his own comforts.

And as to your statement "roughing it in the woods" If you're roughing it you're doing it wrong.I and Isuspect many others don't rough it at all.

 

[novembeRain]

And thats not forgetting the amount of kit you take to show off or swap...

Well, that's understandable I suppose but I wasn't just talking about meets

 

[novembeRain]

And as to your statement "roughing it in the woods" If you're roughing it you're doing it wrong.I and Isuspect many others don't rough it at all.

I didn't mean literally, just that (to me) you shouldn't need so many creature comforts

 

[sapper1]

Even if you go out alone ,Why rough it?Any fool can be uncomfortable.

 

[addo]

I treat meets as a break from the norm. Theres also always a car involved, parked nearby, so why not bring in base camp style equipment and plenty of food and beer.

Its the only chance to meet up with like minded folk, so theres always stuff to show/sell/try out, and chances to have a go at skills that would have traditionally been conducted at a fixed camp.

If I want to practice bushcraft, or a lighter woodland based camp, then I go walking with friends and take a medium sized rucksack.

 

[sapper1]

What do you call creature comforts?
Heat ,food,light, water and a comfortable bed (notice I keep using the word comfortable)
Everyones idea of comfort is different.

 

[novembeRain]

Even if you go out alone ,Why rough it?Any fool can be uncomfortable.

Aye, but I thought the idea was if you wanted a camp bed you learned to make one from what's around you - just as an example.

Why take a lantern if you'll be having a fire?

Why buy an expensive kelly kettle when a fire and a billy will do more jobs, take up less room in your pack and probably weigh less?

Why take a deck chair into the woods at all!? Plenty of places to sit.

And, unless there's a fire hazard or you're not allowed a fire, why carry a hobo stove?

 

[sapling]

I wholeheartedly agree.

The amount of ‘kit’ people who profess to be ‘bush crafters’ use is verging on the ridiculous.
There was one guy at the wilderness gathering this year who I noticed was carrying a large axe on his belt around the trade stand area (which is essentially a grassy field) for what mush have been most of the afternoon. Maybe he knew something I didn’t and was prepared to spring into action with his axe to hand ! But to be honest I would be surprised if the axe saw any use (other than posing) that whole weekend.
From my observations, people use ‘kit’ like a badge of honour. Those with the best (often most expensive) use it to show they are well versed in the rigours of bush craft. What Im trying to say is people use kit as a replacement for skill (its far easier to spend money than invest time). I would almost go as far as to say, people use expensive kit to exclude those who cannot afford it from the ‘top of the tree’ (excuse the pun!)

Whilst it is not my intention to cause offence to anyone, this view is supported from real life observations.

 

[sapper1]

I understand where you're coming from.The thing is some people are more advanced in their bushcraft skills than others,If you needa fire quickly is it better to know you have a lighter and fire lighters and can light a fire instantly or to wonder if you'll ever be warm because you don't have the neccessary skills yet?
Is it better to struggle making a bed and have a crap night or to put up a tent and camp bed,and then practice making a decent shelter.Its all a learning curve and we're all at a different point on that curve.
I take with me a tarp and hammock set up,but I can also build a shelter and bed from scratchI also take a spork because I cant carve a spoon.Wile I sit and practice making a spoon I know I have one in my kit to use while I learn.
Some people for whatever reason are unable to sleep on the floor or in a hammock so they take a camp bed for comfort,does this make them not proper bushcrafters?
The whole ethos of bushcraft (in my mind ) is to enjoy the outdoors,you can't do this if you're wondering how and where you'll sleep and eat that night.I often think that some people carry to much kit with them,but then I think back to when I carried four pots and two sleeping bags,This was before I learned to do without them and still be comfortable,perhaps some people are at this stage and are still learning.
I cansider myself to be still learning and will always meet someone who can teach me something.

 

[decorum]

To be honest I don't mind what folk use; as long as they're happy and comfortable (or as near to as possible).
I can see where you're coming from, but (sometimes) people are like water - they find their own level.
At some point most, if not all, of us will be pushed out of our comfort zone and that can be a good thing, but more often it's a catalyst for bad memories.
Although I don't own a bivvy bag I do own tents, hammocks and tarps and I choose which to use depending on the circumstance(s) I can foresee or the skills I want to learn or further.
I think that a lot of folk like the privacy that a tent provides and in such cases someone saying that all must be in 'this' or 'that' could be misconstrued as trying to enforce a bushcraft uniform.
I pre-select kit based on the same principle. I don't want to lug stuff unnecessarily but I've taken stuff to Meets solely based on the fact that one or more people expressed an interest in learning / doing. That's no complaint and it's not something I mind doing.
A fair chunk of the problem also lies with our responsiblity to the areas we use; Meets would destroy local habitats if everyone made tables, chairs, benches and shelters week in, week out.

And yes a spit-roast pig can be a pita

 

[Wayland]

I think there is a huge difference between what happens at meets / moots and peoples normal practice.

I'm well known for turning up at meets well equipped and provisioned. I approach meets much like I would turn up at a living history show. At the drop of a hat I have the necessary kit I need to demonstrate bone working, leather working, net making, kolrosing, fire lighting, and a host of other little crafts or techniques.

I use a large tarp so I have somewhere I can sit out of the rain while doing so and I usually bring my own fuel because a large meet puts a lot of presure on local resourses.

I have been known to use a trolly but usually I can hump my gear in a couple of trips.

When I am out on my own however I am usually taking pictures, so my camera gear makes a significant addition to my pack weight. As such I travel very light with minimal gear for sleeping and shelter.

I use a hobo stove because then I don't have to carry any fuel and it's much more efficient than a fire.

Just because I can travel light does not mean that is what I always want to do though.

 

[HillBill]

Why even bother wasting time thinking about what other people have? Just enjoy what you have in the way you enjoy using it. It should never go beyond that IMO. When it does, all it is, is pressing one opinion onto another. It's generally better to not go there.

 

[novembeRain]

Fair point sapper1, I didn't mean it in too harsh a sense to be honest anyway - I, like most, can't do without some things. What I was getting at more than anything is people with masses of kit that could be done without - like deck chairs and storm lanterns.

If I go out for the day, which is most days lately, all my kit fits into a small backpack which I used when I was at school, about 12L at a guess.

I take:

First aid kit
Knife
Folding saw
Axe
Firesteel
length of paracord
billy (1pt babyfood tin with wire handle)
pack of savory rice or similar
spork
and maybe a sachet of hot choc powder

For 24 hrs out I'd take the same but a bit more food plus:

Hammock
Tarp
Sleeping bag
Toilet roll
and more paracord

SO, yes it could be cut down even more but I see nothing wrong with having this kit, if it weren't for the sleeping bag it would all still fit in the same 12L backpack and I'm about as comfortable as I could be.

Notice no water? Well there's streams about, I filter it through a tissue and boil it.

For fire, As long as I've got the above kit - I have the means (and skills) to make a fire in any weather.

Without wanting to seem arogant, to me that's how it should be - very minimal kit, everything else you either improvise or make do without

 

[Wayland]

Sounds like you pack is heavier than mine without the camera gear.

A hobo is a lot lighter than an axe and a saw.

When you get to my age, a decent chair is a must at a meet.

I'm too old for sitting on the floor unless I have to.

 

[sapper1]

I take a folding chair with me as my knees are shot,I couldn't spend a weekend without it.
At the welsh meets in cowbridge we have to take in water as there is none there not even a puddle.
I can see that you don't want to come across as arrogant and that to you thats the way it should be,but we all see it the way we think it should be and we're all different.
As Hillbill says don't go out to see what others are using,go out to enjoy yourself.

 

[novembeRain]

Why even bother wasting time thinking about what other people have? Just enjoy what you have in the way you enjoy using it. It should never go beyond that IMO. When it does, all it is, is pressing one opinion onto another. It's generally better to not go there.

Good point, and I'm sorry to say I didn't think of that. I didn't want to press my opinion on anyone, it just seems to me at times that people go for "I've seen RM do it, it's bushcraft" or treat an outing like a holiday, some seem to sit there in their deck chair in the woods watching the world go by - which must be nice, but to my mind isn't bushcraft, you're neither learning or using any skills. Perhaps such a person lit their fire with a firesteel, but apart from that he/she might as well join the camping and caravan club......


Of course this is only my opinion, and I don't intend to change anyone's ways / views at all, my point is mearly - it's not really bushcraft, in my opinion

 

[greeneggcat]

Damn, i thought this thread was about fishing wheni readthe title......

 

[jojo]

Live and let live...