Beginner rifle recommendations

[Robson Valley]

Arya: what concerns you is called the "length of pull or LOP for short."

With the muzzle pointed down range, lay the stock on your forearm and put your finger on the trigger as you woiuld be when shooting.
The butt of the stock should just touch your bicep muscle. I use a spacer on the stock in the summer to compensate for my shooting coat in winter.

It's a rifle. Make small groups then alter the sights to shift the group center to the 10 ring. Shotguns need the stock altered instead.

 

[Janne]

I place the stock on front of my shoulder, on the Deltoid and large Pectoral muscle.

The way we train newbies is to start on short distance, and make them group tightly. I would not worry about hitting the 'inner 10' unless it was my own gun.

 

[santaman2000]

I pick up the rifle (or shotgun) and shoulder it in a firing position and decide if it feels right.

 

[Robson Valley]

Exactly. The correct concept is to learn to shoot very tight groups. That is the skill. Any monkey with a screwdriver can shift the sights to put that group in the 10.
I can still remember the day when the coach snuck up behind me (ISU Standard Pistol) and said "Don't forget to breathe!"

 

[Janne]

I hate bullpup guns.
Have a bullpup FX .22 air rifle, had to extend the Al stock ( home made extention) to get a normal LOP.

 

[Janne]

Exactly. The correct concept is to learn to shoot very tight groups. That is the skill. Any monkey with a screwdriver can shift the sights to put that group in the 10.
I can still remember the day when the coach snuck up behind me (ISU Standard Pistol) and said "Don't forget to breathe!"

Today called ISSF Standard Pistol?

 

[Arya]

What was the range and what was your shooting position? From a rest or self supported?

The range was only 100 meters, and they had me try different positions
Lying down with and without support, sitting in different positions and standing. The photo of the screen was taken lying down, self supported.
But I'm slow, haha! That will hopefully improve with training
I took my time, not rushing at all.
14 days til next time!

 

[Arya]

Arya: what concerns you is called the "length of pull or LOP for short."

With the muzzle pointed down range, lay the stock on your forearm and put your finger on the trigger as you woiuld be when shooting.
The butt of the stock should just touch your bicep muscle. I use a spacer on the stock in the summer to compensate for my shooting coat in winter.

It's a rifle. Make small groups then alter the sights to shift the group center to the 10 ring. Shotguns need the stock altered instead.

Thank you for the tip!

 

[Robson Valley]

Janne, I wouldn't know, could very well be. I lost interest in pistol events decades ago after a few seasons of shooting ISU Rapid Fire.
That was so long ago, we used .22cal shorts! Eventually, the sight of the human silhouette targets put me off.
I might have shot 598 on a good day, knowing that there are hundreds of people who can shoot 600 clean in any match.
The guns are all .22cal LR now.

I've always enjoyed shotgunning for clays and real birds so figured I'd stick with that.
I'm just a Sunday social trap shooter these days, sold off 10 shotguns and just kept 2 Baikals that fit me (LOP, cast, cheek & comb).

 

[Janne]

Robson V, yes, it is a historical calibre. I had a Hämmerli .22s. But I was never any good with it.
PPC with a .38Spec was my forte.

Now I am no good with anything. Happy to hit the target.

Yesterday I discused with some friends at the club how come the 'hostage' is always made from very white paper.

We arrived at that white targets must have been more expensive than the brown ones.
We shoot mainly IPSC today. Fashionable these days. I hate shooting steel at close range.

Baikals are underrated. In a survival situation I rather have a Baikal then a Purdey.
Not that I would ever buy one.

 

[Robson Valley]

I was shooting Unique (France) in Rapid Fire. Went from that to .308 Unlimited silhouette pistol.
I had a bunch of fairly nice shotguns, they held their value.
I regret selling the Amantino Boito 12 s/s coach gun. I sold the cross-eyed Arietta 20, even after telling the buyer!
No tears selling all the others, even the 3.5" x 12ga Benelli.

To anyone reading this, Baikal are made in the largest small arms factory on earth. Crude fit and finish but that's easily stoned down.
In my experience, they are the only shotguns made where you must carry a kit of screwdrivers while hunting
as various pieces tend to fall off. My GF/partner/hunting buddy calls the Baikal o/u 12 "The Pig."
OTOH, she really likes to shoot the Baikal s/s 20. It's early June. I've seen som eadult ruffed grouse. I can wait.

 

[Janne]

Being Russian, you need the toolkit. But, being Russian, most problems can be fixed in the field, by the shooter.
I broke my shooting teeth on a Soviet .22 LR pistol. Margo. Murgo. Mirgo. Something like that.
POS steel, soft. But when the club bought them, 1977?, you got a couple of cases (1000 rounds per case) included.
Also POS, but was good enough for beginners!

Unique was hugely popular in Sweden.

Here, the Green Iguanas are always in season. Might bag a few tomortow, before my mangoes start ripening!

 

[Countryman]

I'd have to disagree on the Baikal. I had one as my first shotgun. Russian tanks are built from Baikals left overs!
They are built down to a price but the idea of one falling apart is a surprise. I once seriously considered using mine to dig out my bogged down Landrover 110!

They are agricultural but undoubtedly for the £100-£150 they fetch here in the UK, worth having.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Janne]

I think you misunderstand us. Baikals are indeed bult like tanks, but if something goes wrong, usually it can be repaired with simple tools and basic skills.

The Soviets designed most stuff like that. Guns, cars, snowdoos, outboards.
I had a Lada I did most repairs on myself. In fact I learned what I know about cars on it.

Very similar to a Defender. Maybe up to a 300tdi, after that they became more complex in the engine departement.

 

[Robson Valley]

I have to spell this out.
Here I sit, right next door to the Excited Snakes of America.
Smith & Wesson sell more handguns in Los Angeles country that they sell in all of Canada or in all of the European Union.
Many, many American guns, shotguns included.

Back to the beginning. I think that Arya is on to a good thing with the Sauer. Game stopping load = done deal.
There's no reason to suggest any finesse that cannot fill her hunting needs.
Hands up those who have hunted the Boreal Forest Biome for 50 years.

I made a written list of all the features that I wanted in a shotgun (single selective trigger, auto ejectors and a lot more).
CZ came close. The sole shotguns with all functioning features that I wanted were the Baikals.
I can't buy an American shotgun that does all I want for under $7 kilobucks.
In that day and time, the Baikal s/s 20 was maybe $800 new. Too bad about the screwdrivers but that's how the wienie wiggles.

 

[gonzo_the_great]

I saw some figures recently for gun sales in the US. If I have got anything wrong here, please correct me. Also I am aware that rules differ between states.
The numbers are based on purchase made in in a gun shops. There is a form that must be filled in (I'm sure our US friends will post the name of the form), which goes off for vetting, before you can collect your purchase.
This form is for a single transaction, which could be one pistol, or a car full. Also anyone who has a dealers cert or carry permit, does not have to fill in this form. Also private sales are not traced in any way.

Figures for the UK first. There are around 2million privately owned firearms and shotguns legally owned in the UK.
Figures for the US. In one month, there are on avereage, 2million of these application forms, submitted.
Quite staggering really. It does put things into perspective when gun control people compare the UK and US situations.


I'm happy that the UK laws restrict who may have access to firearms. But I am jelous of the toys that you guys get to play with .

 

[santaman2000]

I saw some figures recently for gun sales in the US. If I have got anything wrong here, please correct me. Also I am aware that rules differ between states.
The numbers are based on purchase made in in a gun shops. There is a form that must be filled in (I'm sure our US friends will post the name of the form), which goes off for vetting, before you can collect your purchase.
This form is for a single transaction, which could be one pistol, or a car full. Also anyone who has a dealers cert or carry permit, does not have to fill in this form. Also private sales are not traced in any way.....

You're partly right. The form you're thinking of is the Firearms Transaction Record (Form 4473) Dealers are exempt as they have different paperwork requirements. However ALL individuals buying from a licensed dealer have to fill it out regardless of whether they have a carry permit or not. The form is a record of transfer and nothing more. All "vetting" is done electronically on the day of purchase. The dealer submits an inquiry to NICS (N.ational I.nstant C.riminal background C.heck S.ystem) from his shop and the reply is near instantaneous. An individual with a CCW does get exempted from this check and the associated fee (but not from filling out the form) In some states the purchaser may also be exempted from any state imposed waiting periods.

 

[santaman2000]

.....
I made a written list of all the features that I wanted in a shotgun (single selective trigger, auto ejectors and a lot more).
CZ came close. The sole shotguns with all functioning features that I wanted were the Baikals.
I can't buy an American shotgun that does all I want for under $7 kilobucks.
In that day and time, the Baikal s/s 20 was maybe $800 new. Too bad about the screwdrivers but that's how the wienie wiggles.

With that price ($7k) for an American shotgun, I presume you are limiting your choices to double barrels?

 

[Robson Valley]

Yeah, I like doubles. All my singles are gone.
All jokes aside, o/u or s/s are just fine.
Baikals have wooden stocks so I carved them to fit me.
If I felt like buying others:
1. s/s 12ga coach gun with exposed hammers. Cowboy Action Shooting design.
2. s/s .410. I think Boito (Brazil) still makes them. I watched a guy shoot skeet with one. He was wider than he was tall and faster than a cat.

 

[Janne]

Handguns are very common in Sweden. Ranges everywhere.

Tricky to get the first gun, then much easier.

The Swedish system with gun permits work very well.

same applies for hunting guns.