LOL. I agree they're overpriced. But how do you compare a 223 or a 243 to a Howa?
OOPS! My mistake. I thought you were referring to a Howda pistol.
Beginner rifle recommendations
- Thread starter Arya
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LOL. I agree they're overpriced. But how do you compare a 223 or a 243 to a Howa?
OOPS! My mistake. I thought you were referring to a Howda pistol.
Guns is sometimes like a religion.
Buy something. Shoot. Hunt. Enjoy.
Greger
They're also addictive. Her first rifle won't be her last.
Agree. Very addictive. I just hope she does not sell the first one, as people tend to regret it later on.
Buy a rifle, practice to learn to shoot well and go hunting. That's the only way to find out.
I learned to become a very accurate shot out to 200m. I learned over a decade that I am a most unproductive big game hunter.
Could happen to anyone but that's the only way to find out.
Along the way, I learned also that I am a very efficient bird hunter. If it flies, it dies.
I have sold 10 of my 12 shotguns. Never more than $2,000, all field guns, nothing pretty.
#2 was a Brazilian Boito s/s 12 coach gun and I do now sorely regret selling that one.
Looked at new ones in Amantino's on line catalog just yesterday! Stoeger would be OK.
I learned to become a very accurate shot out to 200m. I learned over a decade that I am a most unproductive big game hunter.
Could happen to anyone but that's the only way to find out.
Along the way, I learned also that I am a very efficient bird hunter. If it flies, it dies.
I have sold 10 of my 12 shotguns. Never more than $2,000, all field guns, nothing pretty.
#2 was a Brazilian Boito s/s 12 coach gun and I do now sorely regret selling that one.
Looked at new ones in Amantino's on line catalog just yesterday! Stoeger would be OK.
When we moved from Sweden to UK, we had to sell all our guns.
The one I miss most is a Colt Python I had custom adjusted by Colt, and my first Ruger, a 4 inch Security Six.
The one I miss most is a Colt Python I had custom adjusted by Colt, and my first Ruger, a 4 inch Security Six.
I thought that buying the rifle would put meat on the table.
No, it does not. Not even with custom 165gr hand loads, it does not.
Disappointing revelation but there you have it.
Go through loads, brands and bullet weights, everything above should print 5 shots under 8cm at 100M.
Just remember that in the field, you are expecting that very first shot from a cold barrel to drop the beast on the spot.
As much as I like the Baikals that I have ( I know it's a personality defect), that Boito must have put 200+ birds on my table.
The Canada geese here don't move until 7:30AM so you don't have to bust a gut setting up in the dark at 4AM.
I had several handguns for target shooting, that was a great mental work-out.
No, it does not. Not even with custom 165gr hand loads, it does not.
Disappointing revelation but there you have it.
Go through loads, brands and bullet weights, everything above should print 5 shots under 8cm at 100M.
Just remember that in the field, you are expecting that very first shot from a cold barrel to drop the beast on the spot.
As much as I like the Baikals that I have ( I know it's a personality defect), that Boito must have put 200+ birds on my table.
The Canada geese here don't move until 7:30AM so you don't have to bust a gut setting up in the dark at 4AM.
I had several handguns for target shooting, that was a great mental work-out.
I think you said the most important and valuable point on this thread:
Drop the animal with the first shot.
It is quite tricky and time consuming to adjust the sights for this, as we all adjust them to hit after several shots ( squeeze off a couple - see the average, adjust the sights - squeeze off a couple more - see the average, adjust sights and so on untill perfect.
Next session or even worse, hunt, the first shot or shots are inches away. Ok on paper, not ok on an animal.
All my guns are adjusted this way, and for every comp where a bit of accurancy/ longer range is needed I go and fire off a magazine or a couple of drums just before it is my turn to shoot.
You, sir, is a very wise man!
Drop the animal with the first shot.
It is quite tricky and time consuming to adjust the sights for this, as we all adjust them to hit after several shots ( squeeze off a couple - see the average, adjust the sights - squeeze off a couple more - see the average, adjust sights and so on untill perfect.
Next session or even worse, hunt, the first shot or shots are inches away. Ok on paper, not ok on an animal.
All my guns are adjusted this way, and for every comp where a bit of accurancy/ longer range is needed I go and fire off a magazine or a couple of drums just before it is my turn to shoot.
You, sir, is a very wise man!
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Don't let the shops BS you = most factory long guns fit about 15% of shooters. Fix that.
Probably the sole reason I kept the Baikal 12. The 20 needed a lower comb, more cast off, greater LOP. Now, it fits me.
It shot high and to the left on the board when I bought it, really fun to make a change and see how that gradually centered the shot pattern.
I bought an Arietta s/s 20 (Spain) which was cross-eyed! Admitted it to a buyer, he still bought it!
Lots of things to work on every week of shooting: breathing, stance, breathing, posture, load development and so on.
It's OK to shoot off a sand bag at the range but you won't get that chance in the field.
In any case, you are all alone. There's nobody to hold your hand. Shooting is a 95% head-game. Work on that.
Probably the sole reason I kept the Baikal 12. The 20 needed a lower comb, more cast off, greater LOP. Now, it fits me.
It shot high and to the left on the board when I bought it, really fun to make a change and see how that gradually centered the shot pattern.
I bought an Arietta s/s 20 (Spain) which was cross-eyed! Admitted it to a buyer, he still bought it!
Lots of things to work on every week of shooting: breathing, stance, breathing, posture, load development and so on.
It's OK to shoot off a sand bag at the range but you won't get that chance in the field.
In any case, you are all alone. There's nobody to hold your hand. Shooting is a 95% head-game. Work on that.
All the rifles listed above (those that I've shot anyway) are capable of shooting much smaller groups than that. Straight out of the box. I can't shoot smaller groups, but the rifles can.
Oh sure, the guns are capable. Like any pistol in a Ransom Rest. One or two in the engine room ought to stop any big game.
Clean head shot is even better if you can find the chance.
I met lots of hunters who couldn't shoot for crap as they only ever shot during the hunting season. Therefore, 8cm is small enough for a second shot.
No idea how much CF ammo I shot. Met a chair-bound guy who liked load development. I was his shooter, he had to see every target.
He also loaded my 7mm/.308 Unlimited IHMSA pistol.
There are 50 .22cal LR in a box. There are 10 boxes in a brick. There are 10 bricks in a case and I shot 2/year. Trap loads 10 flats at a time.
Now, I go for an autumn drive with the leaves changing color. Bust a few chickens (Ruffed Grouse) if I get lucky.
Look for wood and stone and mineral crystals. The middle of nowhere is less than 30 minutes from my house and I sleep indoors.
Just get out and shoot, at least once a week. Do it right, with some structure so you always come home a better shooter.
Clean head shot is even better if you can find the chance.
I met lots of hunters who couldn't shoot for crap as they only ever shot during the hunting season. Therefore, 8cm is small enough for a second shot.
No idea how much CF ammo I shot. Met a chair-bound guy who liked load development. I was his shooter, he had to see every target.
He also loaded my 7mm/.308 Unlimited IHMSA pistol.
There are 50 .22cal LR in a box. There are 10 boxes in a brick. There are 10 bricks in a case and I shot 2/year. Trap loads 10 flats at a time.
Now, I go for an autumn drive with the leaves changing color. Bust a few chickens (Ruffed Grouse) if I get lucky.
Look for wood and stone and mineral crystals. The middle of nowhere is less than 30 minutes from my house and I sleep indoors.
Just get out and shoot, at least once a week. Do it right, with some structure so you always come home a better shooter.
Good advise for still shots. Good advice for moving targets too but it's hard to find a practice range that offer moving targets. Game in front of the dogs rarely stands still.
When I took my 'hunting certificate' in Sweden almost 40 years ago, we had to practice and be tested on both static and moving targets.
Tought me only to hunt when the animal walks very slowly, or stands. Birds excluded.
I have never been a good enough shot to take on moving game. Too slow on the trigger.
Tought me only to hunt when the animal walks very slowly, or stands. Birds excluded.
I have never been a good enough shot to take on moving game. Too slow on the trigger.
Pacific Automatic Trap machines are voice-command a wonderful convenience.
They can be set to throw singles in a fixed direction through "wobble" where you have little idea what to expect.
That will cure what ails you. One PAT machine was dedicated to doubles (fixed directions.)
They're very big and expensive so you'd expect to find them in shooting clubs.
Take a look at the Olympic shooting event called "Running Game." That's 100% moving targets (and air rifles?)
They can be set to throw singles in a fixed direction through "wobble" where you have little idea what to expect.
That will cure what ails you. One PAT machine was dedicated to doubles (fixed directions.)
They're very big and expensive so you'd expect to find them in shooting clubs.
Take a look at the Olympic shooting event called "Running Game." That's 100% moving targets (and air rifles?)
Our club just bought those ( possibly another brand made in US), wife ( she does Trap too) loves them!
With the air rifle I like to shoot 50m precision, and walking or sitting Iguanas.
As soon as she has finished painting the walls we are off. She to shoot .22 LR, 25m precision (and some quick shooting disciplines) and I will take the air rifle. Paper and maybe some Iguanas!
Grand Cayman has a HUGE problem with the Green Iguana. It is so bad some trees are starting to die off.
When I get better in my knee I will visit my neighbours at our quey and cull some.
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I'll guess that Arya has the land to set up her own 100m range for centerfire and rimfire. How convenient.
Some sort of a dirt/stone pile berm for a backstop, a comfortable shooting point and it's done.
Some sort of a dirt/stone pile berm for a backstop, a comfortable shooting point and it's done.
EDIT: My reply seems to have become rather long, apologies. Also, apologies if it seems a bit dictatorial and preachy; I am experienced but no expert (there are none?); I just want you to have a good experience of hunting.
I will echo the sentiments in the posts above; the rifle/scope is only the final part of the equation in hunting. Modern rifles and scopes, even at the cheaper-end of the spectrum, are more than capable of the accuracy required to take deer-sized game at realistic ranges (long-range hunting is a bit of a can of worms...)
As with "Bushcrafting", it is easy to focus on the equipment and, in so doing, become distracted from the actual task and the skills it requires. Your rifle needs to function reliably in the conditions and positions you intend to shoot, to deliver accurately a bullet of appropriate construction with enough energy to ensure a clean kill.
Ruger, Howa, Tikka, Sako, CZ, Marlin, Browning, Beretta: I own and shoot firearms from all of these manufacturers and custom made. The only unsalvageable Lemons I have had have been post-Remington Marlins. I bedded my Howa and one of the Tikkas. I have done a lot of trigger-tuning, stock-fitting and "action-slicking" on others: they all shoot and function to my requirements and better. Personally, a Remington wouldnt be my first (or second, nor third...) choice. Savage can be hit and miss, quality-wise, though often salvageable. There are good examples of most rifles, of course, but trends emerge (Rem and Savage not currently flavour of the month).
If you are unlikely to shoot beyond 250m then consider a shorter barrel option. You will sacrifice little in performance but gain in weight-saving and manoueverability. I note you are planning to use a moderator, adding length anyway, and which can offset the recoil and muzzle-blast of a shorter barrel. Likewise, you do not need a heavy-profile barrel: select a light barrelled rifle and the moderator plus good technique will take care of the recoil.
A secondhand gun is always a bit of an unknown: I have several guns that were pre-owned and I have no regrets. Some do not look great through a borescope but still shoot exceptionally well. If these were my target guns, I would be planning ahead for a re-barrel, given the number of rounds shot in quick succession, but as hunting rifles, they usually see only a single shot at a time. Therefore, even if they only have 200 accurate shots left, that is still a lot of deer. I should point out that the specific rifles to which I refer are not barrel-friendly calibres (7WSM for example.)
The question of Calibre is always a tricky one- there is rarely a single, right answer. If you aren't home loading then availablility of factory ammunition is crucial. At a max range of 250m on non-dangerous, deer-sized game, you are not going to have problems with excessive drop or wind drift, nor with inadequate terminal ballistics (within reason.) The excellent 30-06 has been mentioned, but requires a longer action than .308Win and will kick a little more. At sensible hunting ranges the deer will not notice a difference in the two .30 cal bullets, so out of these two, .308Win would be my choice. If you think you might shoot larger animals and/or longer range in the future, 30-06, 300WSM etc. make some sense. It is worth noting that some rifles, eg. Tikka T3, have a standard action length, irrespective of the size of the round.
If you think you might shoot longer ranges in the future, the 6.5mm and 7mm bullets have some advantage over .30 cal (7.62mm) unless much heavier bullets are used in the latter (with knock-on increases in recoil and cost etc.). This is due to the relatively better ballistic coefficient ("slipperiness") of the 6.5mm and 7mm bullets at typical bullet weights, translating into reduced wind-drift and retained energy at range.
6.5mm options would include .260Rem, 6.5x55Swedish, 6.5x47Lapua, 6.5Creedmoor, etc.
7mm options are also numerous: 7x57, 7mm08, 7RM etc. Availability of factory ammo in your area might be a deciding factor.
My general advice to someone setting out on this wonderful journey:
1. Don`t rush to buy a gun (or other kit) Get some experience at a club, ideally with some proper coaching. If you havent shot a reasonably potent centrefire rifle before then you could develop a flinch or other bad habits if a well-meaning shooter lets you "have a go" with a gun that doesn't fit you and which you do not shoot properly.
2. Spend more on the scope and mounts than the rifle. I have never regretted following this old adage. That said, there are some good scopes (with lifetime warranty) at lower prices than previously available. Don`t buy more magnification than you need. 6-8x mag is adequate for most hunting, less if solely woodland stalking, especially driven game. Lower mag means lighter, brighter scope for the money. At most hunting distances, you wont be dialling for wind or drop so exposed/tactical turrets are an unnecessary liability.
3. Practice shooting in field conditions: this is crucial. Range-time is all well and good but there are no shooting benches in the woods nor on the hill! Taking part in competitions that stress positional shooting under time-pressure and with movement is fun and a close simulation of hunting. Learn to shoot using improvised supports, sitting, kneeling, standing and with sticks (quad sticks are incredibly stable and can help keep you shooting above foliage.) Shooting Cinemas can help with this aspect of training. If it is likely you will be shooting running game, it is essential you practice to learn the required lead and technique. In all cases, be mindful of the gun-safety commandments. Dry firing at home can help you to get to know your trigger and how to build a good shooting position.
4. Practice with rimfire club guns, if an option. Learning to shoot a deer-capable rifle is not cheap if you are getting through a lot of rounds. Starting with a rimfire is much cheaper and teaches a lot of the fundamentals of good marksmanship. Ultimately, though, you need to train with the gun and ammunition with which you will hunt.
5. Keep learning, analyse your successes and failures. Keep a log/diary. Dont stop learning and trying to improve but don't get obsessed with kit and upgrades. Sticking with one gun and scope combo yields dividends: "Beware the man with one rifle!" My first centrefire fullbore rifle was a factory firearm with a secondhand Leupold scope. Without modification it has harvested much game and is still used in comps from 50 to 1200yds, even taking Silver at a national level meeting in the McQueens one year (against a lot of custom-rifles.) It is still going strong, sub-MOA accuracy -despite what the borescope says. When it finally looses accuracy, I will rebarrel, and so on until it becomes my son`s or daughter`s gun.
6. Buy some good binoculars: you will use them far more than your scope/rifle. Don`t be seduced by high magnification and needless features. As with your scope, decent exit-pupil is important because much hunting is done at dawn-and-dusk but don't forget that big objective (56mm etc.) also means bigger and heavier bino. You can use binos to focus through cover- this is a really useful technique for woodland hunting. Learn to recognise the subtle texture of fur, visible through a gap in the foliage- this may be all you see of a deer before it sees you. I like binos with a built-in rangefinder- this can be used to hone your own ability to estimate range by taking the binos on a walk when not hunting.
7. Buy a cheap anemometer and use it calibrate your own assessment of windspeed (Arguably not necessary for closer ranges but don't underestimate the effect of wind on bullet.) Bullet drop should be a known variable if you know the range and you have done your homework with your hunting set-up, but wind is not. Reading the wind and compensating for it is vital skill to avoid poor shot placement/misses and to avoid being scented.
8. Practice stalking and moving through the landscape without alerting its inhabitants. Reading the wind direction, avoiding sky-lining, use of cover etc. Electronic ear defenders can be turned-up to exaggerate the sounds of your footfall and contact with brush- this can also highlight how noisy your clothing may be. You can practice this without owning a gun.
9. Know your quarry: identification, behaviour, anatomy, seasons, diseases and welfare. Learn to visualise the animal in 3D: they rarely present broadside to the hunter. What is the likely path of your bullet through the animal for a given aiming point on its surface. You will need to know how to gralloch your animal- though I think there may be compulsory training in Norway? You can start stalking your quarry without owning a gun: get in range and see if you have a safe, clear shot, realistic extraction prospect, shooting position, etc.
10. Respect your quarry, know your limits. Learn what to do if things go wrong and your shot is not perfectly placed. Don`t pressure yourself to bag an animal or you will hurry, take risks and remove the enjoyment of the challenge. A great outing doesn't necessarily have to include a kill. I do not know the system in Norway. In the UK we don't have "tags" or quotas, yet there are plenty of deer, rabbits etc. This means I can hunt a lot (I hunt most weeks), without pressure to fill the freezer (I have three, they are full of game, though I do not bring a deer back each time!)
Most importantly, be safe and enjoy it! I love hunting- it is a primal, instinctive activity that is at my core. Not everyone has this, and so they may not enjoy hunting. It is, after all, ending the life of a beautiful animal.
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Yes, I have
I even have the perfect natural backstop, so when I feel comfortable on my own, I can have my morning tea and scare the crap out of my neighboors. Come to think about it, in bad wreather I can just shoot from inside the livingroom, out the door 
Great summary Xavierdoc
Says it all just about
Other than once you've checked all the makes out ..... buy a blaser.
Yup - I'll get my coat
Says it all just about
Other than once you've checked all the makes out ..... buy a blaser
.Yup - I'll get my coat
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