Ban on Bottled Water

[gregorach]

Or perhaps we shouldn't try to concentrate more people into an area than the land can support!

Now there, I agree with you. Still, we're here now and we've got to deal with it.

Anyway, most water already is sourced fairly close to end-users. There is no equivalent of the National Grid.

Whether it's more efficient to do water-treatment on a large scale or a small scale is not immediately obvious. i suspect that large scale treatment offers numerous economies of scale... And it's done a grand job of eliminating cholera. The problem with having numerous small local water sources is that it's difficult to ensure that they're adequately maintained. In a world where not everyone can possibly have their own country estate with their own water supply, it's something we have to collectivise to some extent.

 

[michaelp]

Call me a ponce, but I absolutely love san pelligrino sparling water. i drink it in preference to anything else. I'd really miss it.

I'm probably a bad person.

 

[jimford]

Call me a ponce

You're a ponce!
;^)

JIm

 

[Goatboy]

Ok this may not solve the problem over night, or hey at all really, but it is a drop in the proverbial ocean of the problems and solutions we cause / try to fix.

http://www.refillnotlandfill.org/

I've always carried water with me, I'm a thirsty chap and also a mean East Coast Calvanistic type so when I needed another water bottle I decided to get a "Refill Not Landfill" Nalgene. I kinda like Nalgenes due to there multi-purpose ( Water bottle, hot water bottle, sprouting grain greenhouse for long trips bottle, measuring jug, cocktail shaker, pee bottle - Don't mix 'em up.) Yup there's other bottles out there, but they last, are strongest of all I've tried - even more than a metal one, to the extent you can usr it as a makeshift hammer, and nice to use.

I also think that the petrol miles on bottled water are just plain stupid, won't be popular in the village for that one as the main employer is Highland Spring, and those chaps just ride rough-shod over everyone. Also in the shop where I work they have a watercooler, we need this as the water to the premisis isn't patable, and as such by law we have to have drinking water, we get it from "Christian Aid" - profits all very nicely going to water for third world countries. But although the water is from Scotland they bottle it in a limestone area !?!?! In Scotland, famed for it's soft waters they bottle stuff that gunks up the kettle, tastes awfull and can promote kidney stones...

Maybe we should all go back to drinking "small-beer"?

Goatboy.

 

[verloc]

You're a ponce!
;^)

JIm

haha brill

This is a really interesting thread and not something I had ever thought about.

 

[British Red]

Now there, I agree with you. Still, we're here now and we've got to deal with it.

Anyway, most water already is sourced fairly close to end-users. There is no equivalent of the National Grid.

Whether it's more efficient to do water-treatment on a large scale or a small scale is not immediately obvious. i suspect that large scale treatment offers numerous economies of scale... And it's done a grand job of eliminating cholera. The problem with having numerous small local water sources is that it's difficult to ensure that they're adequately maintained. In a world where not everyone can possibly have their own country estate with their own water supply, it's something we have to collectivise to some extent.

Huh? I'm not sure where "country estate" comes into the equation? A bore hole requires less than a square foot of land - they can be and have been successfully put into the back yards of terraced houses. Its just tapping the water table.

Certainly my own investigations indicate that treatment is far more effective on a local scale - it is only applied when required - i.e. at the point of consumption not the point of collection. So your header tank is untreated and so is your flush and wash water - purification occurs immediately before the tap for drinking water - and only at the point of consumption. It is therefore both selective, immediate and non wasteful. It also provides a redundancy in the purification system and avoids secondary contamination risk.

Red

 

[gregorach]

Huh? I'm not sure where "country estate" comes into the equation? A bore hole requires less than a square foot of land - they can be and have been successfully put into the back yards of terraced houses. Its just tapping the water table.

'Twas a jest. Still, I, like many, live in a tenement flat, not a house - fifteen households under one roof. There are limits to the sustainable extraction rate from subterranean aquifers (as they refill quite slowly), and the geology around here isn't exactly great for boreholes (igneous rock with the nearest sub-surface aquifer several hundred meters down). However, we have hills nearby with plenty of surface water (most of which never makes it down into the water table).

Solutions which work well for you may not be universally applicable.

 

[Toddy]

If we don't use the household waste water to flush the sewers out though they create a stench and a health hazard in dry summers. What we flush with isn't enough to keep things moving apparantly.

Fine if you live with a septic tank or reedbed system though.

I have to admit that many of the places I have worked have their own water supplies........though the boiled shrimps that came out of the burn that filled the hot water cistern were kind of off putting floating in the bathwater at one bothy/ farm.

Me? living in the middle of the central belt, I'll stick with the stuff Scottish Water pipe down from the Daer Reservoir on the Lanark Moors. It gets a bit peaty sometimes but it's otherwise relatively buggit free. The more recent addition of chlorine irriates me though.

cheers,
Toddy

p.s. Is it just me or are there more and more people with appalling dental hygiene around ? I think I see more rotten teeth nowadays than I did in my childhood. Don't know if it's diet, or toothpaste aversion or the dentist's fees, but it can be pretty gross.
M

 

[jimford]

Even if you put in a bore hole, you'll still have to pay for the water - it's not yours for the taking. Every drop of rain that falls is the property of a water company. In our case the company is French.

I sometime say to my wife "Look at those lovely clouds up there. They're not English clouds, they're French!"

Jim

 

[Chainsaw]

p.s. Is it just me or are there more and more people with appalling dental hygiene around ? I think I see more rotten teeth nowadays than I did in my childhood. Don't know if it's diet, or toothpaste aversion or the dentist's fees, but it can be pretty gross.
M

Unofficially the Glasgow dental profession have named it 'Irn Bru syndrome' but this is a specific type of acid erosion mainly around the lower teeth with corresponding gum recession, tooth loss and halitosis. Full clearances in children 4 and up are not uncommon. SWMBO once had to refer a 13 year old lad for full lower clearance and some of the top too, only 2 of his adult teeth had not come through, made her weep, nice looking lad, too young for decent dentures as he was still growing. People are also thinking I don't need to look after my teeth anymore as I can get implants, cosmetic work or bleaching, forgetting completely about the gums and underlying bone which can be affected by premature teeth loss. Gums and artificial materials don't get on with each other!

So is it crueller to 'forcibly' drug children with fluroride or leave them to be neglected until in pain and with dental health problems for the rest of their life, what a great dilemma. Ironically (irnincally??) most kids that have a steady diet of fruit juice, Irn Bru, Fruit Shoots and Ribena don't drink much water, even if it was fluoridated.

As a side note, our 2 children were give over the counter fluoride supplements up until about 10 years old, we 'forcibly' drugged them in the same way as we 'forcibly' gave them MMR, cervical cancer jabs etc. Any drug is dangerous if the dosage is exceeded, paracetamol being (in)famous for it!

</dental rant for this thread>

Getting back on topic, I thought tap water had more stringent controls on purity and quality than bottled water but I could, of course, be wrong. I can understand people drinking bottle water though, some of the water I've had 'down south' tasted like it had bypassed sewage treatment completely!!

Cheers,

Alan

 

[British Red]

Simply not true Jim. Under the 2003 act you can extract up to 20,000 litres per day for domestic use from a borehole without charge.

Red

 

[British Red]

Solutions which work well for you may not be universally applicable.

Agreed - but the application of piped water should be a measure of last resort not a solution of choice.

Its inefficient, expensive and highly polluting when combined with mains sewage.

I suggest that this addiction to treating all water to drinking standard and then pumping it around is far more damaging than bottled water.

Even if water must be piped, it doesn't have to be treated until the point of conmsumption - and even then only what is going to be consumed

Red

 

[gregorach]

Yeah, I see your point... I think there's perhaps an element of the "sunk costs fallacy" involved - we've already got all this Victorian infrastructure, and it seems better (in the short term) to keep patching it up than to do something different.

 

[British Red]

Not to mention a bunch of ver large companies who in many areas (e.g. Linclonshire) are not needed at all - the water table there is spade depth!

 

[Chainsaw]

It is a great plan but I think you're overestimating the ability of the average joe to maintain/service a 'house end' treatment plant. The consequences of not spotting a failure/failing to maintain could be pretty nasty.

Lastly on a slightly political note (but in reality apolitical) when was the last time a government (any government) took a long term (20-50 year) view on something rather than a short term, money saving, tax lowering stance?

mods please remove above if not suitable

Cheers,

Alan

 

[British Red]

Alan,

How is it then that the tens of thousands of people on private water aren't all dead?

Modern systems "fail safe" Generally they are course filtration which stops passing water if blocked and a UV lamp to sterilise viruses etc. Modern versions manage a solenoid which shuts supply in event of a lamp failure.

All simple stuff tbh.

In my mind, allowing people to take some personal responsibility for their consumption and treatment of water is only a good thing - we really don't need to Nanny people that much!

Red

 

[Chainsaw]

Probably because they are either smarter, more responsible or maybe have grown with such a system. I'm sure 99% of people would manage just fine but I suspect the darwinian casualties of the 1% of people that couldn't/wouldn't (not my job to make sure my water is fit to drink!) would be enough to provoke a PC outcry (which I know we don't really care about!)

I don't know anything about water filtration systems but from an engineering point of view I kind of thought they should failsafe or have some redundancy. I'm right with you but it's rare to see common sense triumph over the status quo. One day when my millionaire (to be) daughter buys me my house on Loch Ard, I'm there!!

Cheers,

Alan

 

[Shewie]

One day when my millionaire (to be) daughter buys me my house on Loch Ard, I'm there!!

Cheers,

Alan

Join the queue Al, that's mine :BlueTeamE

 

[Tengu]

What I dont like is my water company funding third world water projects whilst I struggle with water rates.

I wouldnt mind so much if I could have clean water as cheaply as these fortunate people in the third world, but they charge me a fortune.

 

[Goatboy]

p.s. Is it just me or are there more and more people with appalling dental hygiene around ? I think I see more rotten teeth nowadays than I did in my childhood. Don't know if it's diet, or toothpaste aversion or the dentist's fees, but it can be pretty gross.
M

Hey Toddy, despite fluoride and regular brushing I cant afford a dentist, think that over the next few years that those forensic chaps may have a problem as what is on record will bear no relation to what they find. I would defy a dentist to match my mouth with my records. Have had to resort to home dentistry, It does hurt somewhat but works. So if someone is lucky enough to kill and dump my body it'll go unclaimed.

TTFN
Colin