I'll be placing a very thick layer of spruce boughs beneath the CCF for adding insulation. The blanket was to go over my Alpkit bag
Arctic sleep system advice
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widu13
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
It's close. If you have a really cold night, you are likely to be cold. My only experience is of Norway late winter to Spring, but -15 to -20c was common and it regularly went -35 to -40c.
With -40 a distinct possibility id say your system needs more beef mate. I thought you were going with a two bag setup? The wool blanket may help if you can keep it properly attached to your bivvy bag but all sorts of potential for it to wander off in the night. Your ground insulation isnt enough imho.
To put it in plain terms i think you need a minimum of a -30 bag if you are not in a hot tent.
To be fair though its a personal thing and only you know how warm you sleep but taking kit not rated to the conditions is a big risk
Poop. Worried now as my money is running low for this trip. I can't afford Downmats and the like. I was under the impressed CCF and a metric ton of boughs was often enough for insulation.
As for the two bag setup, my big issue was finding a bag to fit over the loft of the skyehigh, so I was advised that the skyehigh on its own would be fine, especially with a softie suit
To echo what's been said above, sleeping insulation is very personal thing. What works for one won't necessarily work for another.
I sleep quite warm, but I wouldn't consider a sleeping bag with 1000g of duck down to be sufficient for cold camping at temps down to -30c. I need more. I'd want something with 1500-1700 g of decent down in it as a minimum.
Wearing your softie trousers to boost the sleeping system is a good idea in my book but it will introduce some damp from wear in the day and this will slowly reduce the loft in your bag.
Best practice in my book is to pack for the worst historical weather conditions for that time of year, that means sub -30. You will probably be fine, verging on chilly but is it worth the chance?
As for CCF and spruce boughs, they will be plenty warm enough if you pack them thick enough.
I sleep quite warm, but I wouldn't consider a sleeping bag with 1000g of duck down to be sufficient for cold camping at temps down to -30c. I need more. I'd want something with 1500-1700 g of decent down in it as a minimum.
Wearing your softie trousers to boost the sleeping system is a good idea in my book but it will introduce some damp from wear in the day and this will slowly reduce the loft in your bag.
Best practice in my book is to pack for the worst historical weather conditions for that time of year, that means sub -30. You will probably be fine, verging on chilly but is it worth the chance?
As for CCF and spruce boughs, they will be plenty warm enough if you pack them thick enough.
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Do bear in mind Finland is not as relaxed as other scandinavian countries when it comes to gathering resources
Everyone may:
walk, ski or cycle freely in the countryside, except in gardens, in the immediate vicinity of people’s homes, and in fields and plantations which could easily be damaged
stay or set up camp temporarily in the countryside, a reasonable distance from homes
pick wild berries, mushrooms and flowers, as long as they are not protected species
fish with a rod and line
row, sail or use a motorboat on waterways, with certain restrictions; swim or wash in inland waters and the sea
walk, ski and fish on frozen lakes, rivers and the sea
You may not:
disturb other people or damage property
disturb breeding birds, or their nests or young
disturb reindeer or game animals
cut down or damage living trees, or collect wood, moss or lichen on other people’s property
light open fires on other people’s property, except in an emergency
disturb the privacy of people’s homes, by camping too near them, or making too much noise, for example
leave litter
drive motor vehicles off road without the landowner’s permission
fish or hunt without the relevant permits
Everyone may:
walk, ski or cycle freely in the countryside, except in gardens, in the immediate vicinity of people’s homes, and in fields and plantations which could easily be damaged
stay or set up camp temporarily in the countryside, a reasonable distance from homes
pick wild berries, mushrooms and flowers, as long as they are not protected species
fish with a rod and line
row, sail or use a motorboat on waterways, with certain restrictions; swim or wash in inland waters and the sea
walk, ski and fish on frozen lakes, rivers and the sea
You may not:
disturb other people or damage property
disturb breeding birds, or their nests or young
disturb reindeer or game animals
cut down or damage living trees, or collect wood, moss or lichen on other people’s property
light open fires on other people’s property, except in an emergency
disturb the privacy of people’s homes, by camping too near them, or making too much noise, for example
leave litter
drive motor vehicles off road without the landowner’s permission
fish or hunt without the relevant permits
My revised sleep system,
Army ccf mat
Exped downmat 9dlx
Snugpak Antarctica re -20
Snugpak Softie 9 -5 with expanda panel
Merino base layers
Softie booties
Oh and a hot tent!
Army ccf mat
Exped downmat 9dlx
Snugpak Antarctica re -20
Snugpak Softie 9 -5 with expanda panel
Merino base layers
Softie booties
Oh and a hot tent!
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Right, so the Antarctica RE sounds pretty good, and I can secure it for around £150 if needs be. How would this setup sound then?
Army CCF
(possibly also a thermarest)
Spruce boughs
Wool blanket
Antarctica RE
Silk/fleece liner
Merino baselayers
Softie suit
I also have a softie 9 that I could take as well
Army CCF
(possibly also a thermarest)
Spruce boughs
Wool blanket
Antarctica RE
Silk/fleece liner
Merino baselayers
Softie suit
I also have a softie 9 that I could take as well
Might I inquire which part of Finland are you travelling to? Three, four layers of spruce boughs combined with a space blanket on top is far better than e.g. Downmat 9 as per a Finnish test.
The only major different between the legislations of Finland, Norway and Sweden is that open fires are not permitted in Finland without a permission from the land owner.
However, "the provisions in this [criminal code] chapter do not apply to the gathering, on the land of another, of dry twigs from the ground, cones or nuts that have fallen to the ground or wild berries, mushrooms, flowers or other similar natural products, with the exception of lichen and moss". There is no definition of that constitutes to a twig. I would argue that spruce boughs naturally separated from the tree are "twigs".
Do notice that a stove is not an open fire as per the Finnish legislation and authorities.
I bough to your local knowledge Martti. Fresh green naturally separated boughs may need some help though
widu13
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
That would do it bud. I don't know what your extreme cold weather experience is but go prepared and it's easy. A lesson I was taught on my pre arctic course was contact gloves. What was the very first lesson I learned when we got to Norway? Yep, that's right to always wear contact gloves. Hands are much warmer with skin on!
I'll be heading to Kittila in early February.
So, with the softie 9 or without?
widu13
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Ahh, fair enough. Just wondering, would the system be good if I put the softie 9 inside the skyehigh 1000? Just looking at options
Can't see how you can pack that all in Phaestos! ( thinking weight and volume )
Softie suit over wool base layers and an Antartica re- would be enought for me ( but we are all different! In fact, thats pretty much what I am taking in Feb! )
I would lose the blanket and take another mat (thermarest type pack the smallest but CCf's are the best out there IMHO! so , one of each?)
I would lose the silk/fleece inner and take a bivi bag, stick yer mats inside.
Defo use boughs if that is realistic, they make a fantastic difference to comfort levels.
These are my thoughts mate, lots of good advice in this thread, good luck!
Best.
Chris.
Softie suit over wool base layers and an Antartica re- would be enought for me ( but we are all different! In fact, thats pretty much what I am taking in Feb! )
I would lose the blanket and take another mat (thermarest type pack the smallest but CCf's are the best out there IMHO! so , one of each?)
I would lose the silk/fleece inner and take a bivi bag, stick yer mats inside.
Defo use boughs if that is realistic, they make a fantastic difference to comfort levels.
These are my thoughts mate, lots of good advice in this thread, good luck!
Best.
Chris.
widu13
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
I don't think there would be room enough for the bag inside the Skyehigh and the vapour from the 9 would be cooling against the down bag. Not an issue if you can air/beat the bag but be careful that you keep it dry.
If you are in a hot tent just the Antarctica will suffice with a bivvy bag.
I wont be in a hot tent, just a tent warmed by a candle and a fire in front. Weight and bulk were concerning me :/
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