Defence 6 experiences; and versus equivalent Snugpak sleepingbag or other similar ones

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Siberian Mongoose

Tenderfoot
Aug 9, 2023
50
12
Lemonwood Rez, NZ
Being a rather cold sleeper not being manly, i have a Defence 6 (which is by default the large size), and i suspect that it may be possible to use the (large?) Tropen in it, as inside the bag (apart from the draftcollar, with the same shell as the large Defence 4?) there are two loops each at both the foot-end and at the head end: can anyone confirm that these are for attaching a Tropen to, and is it therefore possible?

I find with the Defence 6 the width over the legs wide enough for a side-sleeper (i can‘t sleep on my back due to it being wonky from scoliosis) as one bends the legs at the knees, and my down bags seem too narrow here; however, the small hole in the hood seems queer to me as i’m used to being able to open up the hood, although i can use the bag unzipped and upside down as a quilt by, at the draftcollar, turning the hood over towards the foot-end. It seems to me that the fill is even right around (correct me should i be wrong) —unlike a down bag which often has less down on the bottom— so that having the zip to one side should not be a problem for sleeping on one’s back sideways. o_O The zip slipping down when not all the way up is a problem though.

Have used the Defence 6 in what became a -8ºC frost (in a test where i live) and wasn‘t cold, although the Thermarest XTherm mat became somewhat deflated because of the change in airpressure, and i was awoken by my hip touching the ground through it so had to get up and give it some more air—never had this problem with my thicker Exped Downmat 9! Have a merino wool inner, which is better than getting tied up in a tangle with a silk one (still, hardly weighs anything, so a bit of extra warmth if needed). In NZ it is rare to have a warm night in the Summer (even in Northland, being called the Winterless North) as the surrounding sea tempers (like in the desert where a -20ºC bag (for myself) is necessary, but one has to wait until it cools down—one watches the critters out at night, such as rattlers slithering under the tent floor), and even colder in the hills and the mountains, the advantage being that the mozzies disappear in the even as they don‘t have woollies on.

Resultingly, am interested in buying a Snugpak cold-rated sleepingbag as a comparison, or any other synthetic one that is of similar quality—i’ve only used in the past down sleepingbags (still have two; the really old one being used as a quilt for inside sleeping during colder seasons, and has had to be mended because of an attack kitten :cat2: ), but dampness has often been a problem (not a problem in the desert) so decided to try a synthetic fill one…which are cheaper also (my newer down bag is rather expensive, but good to -28ºC for warm sleepers, closer to -20ºC for myself).

Any advice here would be appreciated; and has anyone modded a Carinthia to have a better hood arrangement?, or to stop the zip slipping? Ta.
 

Watch-keeper

Life Member
Sep 3, 2013
93
50
London
My defense 4 has the same tie tabs at the head an foot end and will take a tropen, I don't know for sure but my guess its the same for the 6!
Im not sure you can mod the hood/hole without major surgery, its purposely made that way so you can poke your nose/mouth out to breathe but not lose warm air and to accommodate equipment.
The zip is another thing that was made for military use, to enable you to just pull it apart to make a quick exit. The Zip would be the easiest to mod just by getting hold of a zip with the locking type puller and carefully removing the puller from both and change them over.
 
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Siberian Mongoose

Tenderfoot
Aug 9, 2023
50
12
Lemonwood Rez, NZ
Ta for that reply! ’Tie tabs’ is the term i couldn‘t think of. :) Great, now i’ll have to buy a Tropen to test it!—will report on whether it is successful.

The hood area is so large that i can get a normal sized, but not too thick, pillow in it when it is closed up!

The zip being able to not move part way down would solve the problem of the hood, as i can then with this put my wee squishy pillow on top of the hood as the bag is long enough for me with this arrangement. Another way to arrest the zip-slider would be with velcro (i have some in olive green) sewn onto an appropriate place or perhaps attaching through loops on either side (i could then have a number of places), but having a locking zip would be better: now i need to find the zip parts, i’ll measure in mm the width over the zip to get the size. Another mod would be imitating the British Army Defence 4 copy by sewing mesh pockets inside.

I have a HD sewingmachine, but often mods are easier to do by hand—have curved needles (like suture needles) which are very useful in doing this…and for mending the ravages of an attack kitten.
 

Watch-keeper

Life Member
Sep 3, 2013
93
50
London
Ta for that reply! ’Tie tabs’ is the term i couldn‘t think of. :) Great, now i’ll have to buy a Tropen to test it!—will report on whether it is successful.

The hood area is so large that i can get a normal sized, but not too thick, pillow in it when it is closed up!

The zip being able to not move part way down would solve the problem of the hood, as i can then with this put my wee squishy pillow on top of the hood as the bag is long enough for me with this arrangement. Another way to arrest the zip-slider would be with velcro (i have some in olive green) sewn onto an appropriate place or perhaps attaching through loops on either side (i could then have a number of places), but having a locking zip would be better: now i need to find the zip parts, i’ll measure in mm the width over the zip to get the size. Another mod would be imitating the British Army Defence 4 copy by sewing mesh pockets inside.

I have a HD sewingmachine, but often mods are easier to do by hand—have curved needles (like suture needles) which are very useful in doing this…and for mending the ravages of an attack kitten.
Ref the zip thing it might be an idea to take the sleeping bag along with you to compare the zips as there are loads of zip makers out there with similar zips. That velcro idea sounds great and seems like an easier fix and wouldn't involve potential breakage of the zip pullers when you remove them.
I like the hood , like you say you can get a pillow in there which improves my sleep quite a lot.
Being a lazy person I did something similar with the mesh pouches inside my Defense 4 but I used tenacious tape instead of sewing and just stuck them in.
 

Siberian Mongoose

Tenderfoot
Aug 9, 2023
50
12
Lemonwood Rez, NZ
Ref the zip thing it might be an idea to take the sleeping bag along with you to compare the zips as there are loads of zip makers out there with similar zips. That velcro idea sounds great and seems like an easier fix and wouldn't involve potential breakage of the zip pullers when you remove them.
I like the hood , like you say you can get a pillow in there which improves my sleep quite a lot.
Being a lazy person I did something similar with the mesh pouches inside my Defense 4 but I used tenacious tape instead of sewing and just stuck them in.
I’d probably have problems finding the zip bits, so i’ll take your advice and try the velcro way.

I used to use a cut-down normal pillow of which was wearing being old when converted, then tried an Exped inflatable one but sold it as it was like my head was lying on a bouncy castle! Bought an MSR squishy pillow (their size small); then discovered the Exped one of which i found more comfy, and being slightly smaller than the MSR one (despite Exped claiming it to be the same size) my cut-down pillowslips fitting it nicely (keeps the pillow cleaner, and cotton is better).

Never heard of tenacious tape: sounds like an easier way of doing this, as i’m lazy also! Please, where did you get the mesh or whatever for the pouches? Ta.
 
Last edited:

Watch-keeper

Life Member
Sep 3, 2013
93
50
London
Tenacious tape is made/distributed by a company called McNett, its made to repair outdoor kit like Gore-Tex jackets and tent flysheets. I have repaired many items with it and find it to be very robust and super sticky it more or less give you a permanent repair.
It is fairly expensive but does a great job.
Don't mistakenly buy the precut patches though because you get too much wastage just buy the strips of tape!

I'm currently in the market for a pillow, I'm also not a fan of blow up pillows and also not a fan of the normal hollo fill camping type pillows as they always seem too thin. Maybe a combo might work for me thin inflatable and a hollo fill camping pillow on top!
 

Watch-keeper

Life Member
Sep 3, 2013
93
50
London
Correction: The company that makes tenacious tape it is called Gear Aid . I see you are in NZ ,there is a company selling it in NZ called Bivouac Outdoor.
 

Siberian Mongoose

Tenderfoot
Aug 9, 2023
50
12
Lemonwood Rez, NZ
Correction: The company that makes tenacious tape it is called Gear Aid . I see you are in NZ ,there is a company selling it in NZ called Bivouac Outdoor.
Ta for that, i have bought off of Bivouac, and there is a shop not too far away from me.

I like thin pillows myself, it might be due to one’s body-build—the Exped is slightly thicker than i prefer (there is a larger one than i have), but more comfortable than the MSR where i can just feel the bumpiness of the fill; the MSR is made in USA, the Exped is made in Taiwan.

There is at least one combo (called hybrid) the Nemo Fillo Pillow.
 
Last edited:

Watch-keeper

Life Member
Sep 3, 2013
93
50
London
I like the look of the fillo pillow it sounds like it could be the answer but it gets mixed reviews. Ill give the separate hollofill pillow and inflatable combination a go first and see if that works if not ill see if I can get hold of a fillo pillow to try.
 

Siberian Mongoose

Tenderfoot
Aug 9, 2023
50
12
Lemonwood Rez, NZ
Should you find a normal sized pillow the right thickness for you, you, or someone else of course, could cut it down to the size that you want.

Having had an American-made pillow that i’ve had for years got when i lived in the States, it is just the right thickness for me with a fill that is very compressible; as it is relatively light weight i’ve even used it for camping! Must weigh it to compare to the Exped one.
 

Watch-keeper

Life Member
Sep 3, 2013
93
50
London
Weight is the biggest problem if you need to carry it, bulk isn't too much of a drama for me though. I do have a miniature feather pillow that I used if I was at a static camp but it was quite heavy and not really suitable for carrying. Ill try out some combinations this weekend and see how I get on.
 

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