Is an Offensive weapon in Scotland, basically what two experts say it is?

[Graham_S]

basicly, you're in more danger from the doctor stitching you up, than from the scrote who stabbed you!

 

[andybysea]

My thoughts regards the kubotan are is it offensive or defensive? how do you prove it is used for offensive purposes? rather than to defend yourself.Until you have actualy gone on the offensive with it how is it offensive,surely it just a plastic bar until then.

 

[sapper1]

This thread has gone the way of most weapons threads.
As far as I can see if you don't have a NEED for it then anything can be an offensive weapon and if your not using it or have no good reason to be carrying it, then you're just going to be or cause another statistic.

 

[Toddy]

I have edited the thread.

It would be taken as a kindness if further comments were in response to the OP/

regards,
Toddy

 

[Draven]

Given the nature of the item, proving intent to do anything was unnecessary. A .357 might make a nice paperweight, but you're not going to convince them to allow it. A kubotan is designed for one thing: inflicting harm on a human being. The infliction of harm is itself neutral, and can be used for good and bad. The simple fact of the matter is, though, that in the UK you are not allowed to carry anything of which the primary purpose is inflicting harm on a human being. The moral rights and wrongs of it are irrelevant in questioning the cause of the conviction. Justice via the justice system isn't about right and wrong, it's about the letter of the law and an argument some posh guys in wigs have.

God, I feel dirty all over saying that, so I will add that I think it's stupid.

This blanket ban idea is rather strange IMO really; in the US (for example) there are places where daggers are illegal, but handguns can be carried. Similarly, there are places where balisongs are illegal but auto knives are legal; it's often asked why, though of course the answer is that they didn't ban things that weren't actually a problem. I'd be most interested in seeing statistics regarding the number of crimes committed with a kubotan.

 

[Minotaur]

Given that the device in question is an offensive weapon, this is a non-story!

Irrespective of any other factor, it is an offensive weapon!

Such devices are invariably carried by those whom have no ability to use them with any degree of competence, and as such are more likely to cause serious injury to their victim.

Actually it is not, that is sort of my point. It became an offensive weapon because two experts said it was.

This thread has gone the way of most weapons threads.

Sorry I did ask, and I am trying really hard to stay out of it.

As far as I can see if you don't have a NEED for it then anything can be an offensive weapon and if your not using it or have no good reason to be carrying it, then you're just going to be or cause another statistic.

This is the way we think it works but this case worries me, because it seems to be saying an offensive weapon is what they say it is. I quote another case in this post that makes no sense either given my understanding of the current law.

I'd be most interested in seeing statistics regarding the number of crimes committed with a kubotan.

There must have been some sort of problem with certain types, because they are on the list. What I do not know but maybe the bikers or mods liked them or something. I would be interested in seeing these sort of stats as well. They do not even seem to know what knifes are used in knife crime.

Anyone seen this story?

He was carrying this : -

And was found guilty of unlawful possession of a knife. He got 180 hours unpaid work.

Three points of interest here ; -

1) That is an offensive weapon.
2) He carried it for defense.
3) The Judge said he could see why because of were he lived!

The big thing I do not get is why did they not charge him with carrying an offensive weapon?

This is surposed to be the point of this thread, are the Police looking at things differently, for whatever reason.

Just as a side note, if you quote UK crime states can you give your source. A lot of them have been massaged, or are outrightly biased.

 

[Toddy]

Okay.........No Scottish Judge let any nutter carry that and agree with it.

Scotland has some of the strictest knife laws, and police campaigns agin knives, in the world.

It's hardly fair then to ask about a knife in London and a proscribed weapon in Scotland and ask if the police view them differently.

cheers,
Toddy

 

[wingstoo]

They were discussing this whole issue on the radio, I think it was Friday lunchtime on R2.

They were talking to a number of different people and one mentioned that the inventor of the Kubotan made a comment that if attatched to a bunch of keys the best way to use it was to hold the Kubotan and swing the keys

DD had been using the "gift" given to him by a Martial arts friend for some 15 plus years, it was only when he was arrested for drink driving that his keys were taken off him and it was found he had the Kubotan on the key ring.

On Amazon you can buy these "Key fobs" for just 57pence, or these for between £2 - £3.50 and plastic ones

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bytomic-Plastic-Training-Kubotan/dp/B0019UIM14/ref=pd_sim_sg_6

For just £1.99


http://www.amazon.co.uk/Blitz-Sport-Kubotan-Key-Ring/dp/B001S3DBF4/ref=pd_sim_sg_2

His friend Paul McVey, 47, told the court he gave the kubotan to the actor in Blackpool in 1996.
Disgusted Professor McVey, a martial arts expert at Knightsbridge University, said he did so after becoming "fed-up" with Day losing his keys.
He said he was "shocked, amazed and disgusted" to find his friend of 20 years had been charged with possessing an offensive weapon.
He added that he felt some guilt after being the one who gave him the item.
He told the court kubotans were easily available to buy on the internet, or in martial arts shops, for £2 or £3.

Maybe time to stop and search everyone "Just in case" :BlueTeamE

Wings

 

[Firebringer]

The proscribed item list makes interesting reading
The Criminal Justice Act 1988 (Offensive Weapons)(Scotland) Order 2005
(Think that's most up todate.)
Blowpipes for example fall into the same category.

 

[Minotaur]

The proscribed item list makes interesting reading
The Criminal Justice Act 1988 (Offensive Weapons)(Scotland) Order 2005
(Think that's most up todate.)
Blowpipes for example fall into the same category.

Only hollow with spikes listed. I thought the pointed ones were as well.

It's hardly fair then to ask about a knife in London and a proscribed weapon in Scotland and ask if the police view them differently.

Actually it does make a sort of weird sense. The thing in Scotland is a key ring, which they got two experts to say this is a weapon. The thing in London is an offensive weapon, it answers yes to all three questions, but he got done for carrying a knife. In both cases the law as we understand it, is not being applied the way we think it should, and that is my question.