Is an Offensive weapon in Scotland, basically what two experts say it is?

[Minotaur]

Darren Day Trial starts.

Darren Day Found Guilty

This story needs a picture. Too many wrong facts.

Anyway, he seems to have been done, basis on what two experts have said. My understanding was a basic kubaton can be used, and carried as a keyring, which was his defense. There is no mention of him saying he carried it for self defense, which is the big no no.

The only reason I bring this up, is does this not seem like a nightmare for us? Get stopped, Police find your kit, and then do you for carrying an offensive weapon. How hard is it going to be to prove a Mora, and an Axe are weapons?

Please can we not do the whole carrying for defense thing again. What I am trying to get at is, this case seems to be, the laws we follow do not matter because they have found a way to do you anyway.

 

[Toddy]

Let me get this right ..........he's walking about in the city centre with a kubotan on his keys.........what an idiot.
How come he got away with that ?

Drunk driving after he's already had an eighteen month ban.........why's he not in jail ? they imprison others for it.
I hope they fined the blighter for the repairs to the lamp post too

cheers,
Toddy

 

[Stuart69]

There's a bit of a difference between a Kubotan and a Mora or axe surely? You wouldn't be carrying bladed tools in a place or situation where you couldn't legally justify their reason for being on you.

He was done for carrying an offensive weapon in a public place without good reason. I don't think I personally could ever justify a Kubotan, saying it's a keyring and not a weapon doesn't make it legal to my mind, if it was I could hang anything from my keys and claim it's not a weapon. Maybe I'm missing something?

 

[gregorach]

The kubotan is legally classed as an offensive weapon because it was specifically designed for use as a weapon. It has no other use. It's not a tool which can be used as a weapon, it's just a weapon.

 

[Waldganger]

and you'll find that you would have a damn good reason to have your mora and axe. You're bushcrafting!

the clown would have had to been martial arting to get away with that lol

 

[Eric_Methven]

A kubotan as a keyring? That's crazy! The man must be daft. If he wanted something like that ready to hand, all he had to do was use a mini maglite. Same functionality, but it's a torch.

Eric

 

[shogun]

A kubotan as a keyring? That's crazy! The man must be daft. If he wanted something like that ready to hand, all he had to do was use a mini maglite. Same functionality, but it's a torch.

Eric

the mini maglite could be used like a kubotan keyring....

 

[Tadpole]

the mini maglite could be used like a kubotan keyring....

But a mini maglit is not made to be a weapon. As such is legal to carry.

 

[gregorach]

Yep, but it's neither designed nor adapted to serve as a weapon, so they'd have to prove intent.

 

[zorro]

There has been an interesting thread on BB about this. http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showthread.php?101909-Darren-Day-Kubotan-Charge

Enjoy.

 

[Ropeman]

Essentially, if you'd had a few Jack Daniels, smashed your car into a lamp post, been collared for drunk driving for at least the second time and you had an axe in your pocket when you got to the nick you'd be in a very bad place of your own making.

The kubotan offense was 'punished' by an admonishment which is, quite literally, the sheriff telling you that you've been naughty and that you aren't to do it again now get out of his sight.

I've had harsher treatment for handing my homework in late

 

[Toddy]

Sounds like the Sheriff was in a good mood

cheers,
Toddy

 

[Wilderbeast]

You're not supposed to have knuckle dusters in Britain but I found a website selling them as "paper weights".......which is an incredible excuse.

I think i'll buy a couple of .50 cal browning machine guns and use them as book ends!

Or perhaps an L96A2 sniper rifle and use it as a hat stand,

or even a javelin anti tank weapon and use it as a bed side table

 

[Ropeman]

You're not supposed to have knuckle dusters in Britain but I found a website selling them as "paper weights".......which is an incredible excuse.

I think i'll buy a couple of .50 cal browning machine guns and use them as book ends!

Or perhaps an L96A2 sniper rifle and use it as a hat stand,

or even a javelin anti tank weapon and use it as a bed side table

If you've got the money for any of those then you'll be able to afford a brief good enough to get you off

 

[salan]

I must be thick. That just looks like a five inch piece of metal!
I have carried things like that around but never even thought of them as a weapon!
Alan

 

[Toddy]

The difference is that your bit of metal is *just* a bit of metal. A kubotan is imbued with martial arts mojo, and becomes an offensive weapon.

So, even if stopped by the police, they would have to have a suspicion that you were up to no good to charge you with having your bit of metal.

Stopped by the police and found to be carrrying a kubotan and it is automatically perceived that you are carrying an offensive weapon; and a proscribed one at that, and they will clype to the Procurator Fiscal on you.

cheers,
Toddy

 

[korvin karbon]

At a seminar, i used my climbing karabiner as knuckleduster, my car key fob a kubotan, belt as whip/ligature. In a club i held a guys cheeks together as someone usedd their house keys between their knuckles and punched him.

Anything can be used as a weapon, hell im busy trying to make a paracord kubotan (and failing terribly) not because i want it as a weapon but because i want a keyring thats easy to grab.

I wonder if the goths and skaters who have long keychains hanging off them will be told to stop carrying offensive weapons.

On a side note, i have a 3 inch scar on my skull from a woman using her high heels as weapon because i was trying to eject her boyfriend who had broke her nose.

 

[HillBill]

The kubotan is legally classed as an offensive weapon because it was specifically designed for use as a weapon. It has no other use. It's not a tool which can be used as a weapon, it's just a weapon.

Correct

 

[gregorach]

I wonder if the goths and skaters who have long keychains hanging off them will be told to stop carrying offensive weapons.

No, because those items are not specifically designed as weapons.

It's pretty simple really. I know Martyn has repeatedly stated this, but there are 3 key questions, and a "yes" to any one of them makes something an offensive weapon in the eyes of the law:

1. Is it designed for use as a weapon?
2. Has it been adapted for use as a weapon?
3. Do you have the intent to use it as a weapon?

In this case, the kubotan is designed as a weapon, so it is an offensive weapon in the eyes of the law because of question 1. In the case of those heavy keychains, they are neither designed nor adapted for use as weapons, therefore there would need to be some demonstration of intent (question 3) for them to be regarded as offensive weapons.

Simple.

 

[MikaelMazz]

I feel bad for you guys in Britain. In this part of the U.S if you are 21 you can carry a pistol in plain sight with few restrictions. I dont (I am 19 anways) and dont know anyone that carries in plain sight but its legal.
I always carry a knife. When I go into town to go to stores I usually carry my leatherman just so I dont scare anyone but I have went into stores with a full sized knife on my belt and no one says a word about it. Knive are not just weapons they are tools.