Woodlore (Ray Mears) Arctic Expedition

[blanco1962]

Anyone out there who has been on this course need to rid themselves
of expensive kit at stupidly low prices? if so would like to hear from you,
especially if you have a Berghaus Vulcan size 3, or a pair of Lundhag
Huskys UK size 9 or a Black Diamond Transfer 7 shovel.

Thanks
Blanco

 

[dave53]

join g4ghb:s gift it on
regards dave

 

[forestwalker]

You won't need such posh kit. Every hardware store and petrol station around here wil sell you a perfectly servicable shovel, for UKP 15-20. There are boots that will work quite well that are cheaper than the Lundhags, and any largish external fame pack can accept all the extra kit that won't fit inside it (sleeping bag in a canvas stuff sack, closed cell foam pad, etc). I've done tundra trips with a 70's era 50 L Fjällräven external frame pack, which was possible but on the inconvenient side.

And you can make quite a bit of kit, much cheaper -- and arguably better -- than the guchi kit from the store. Mittens, anoraks, parkas, mukluks (won't work with ski bindings, but are lovely the rest of the time), fur hats... Buy two beanies and sew (using wool thread) one inside the other for a super-warm rest break hat, etc.

The things you need to check for all kit is

1. Can I operate it with mittens (or at the very least gloves) on? Adapt and modify!
2. Will it survive -35 C? For example, some packs have sheets of plastic that needs to flex as you move...

 

[loubylou]

Hi Blanco - I have also booked to do this and have looked at the expensive kit list!! What week are you on? I'm on the second week I think. I am trying to source my gear from army surplus places. From what I read there is no need to get what is recommended on the list. I was also confused by the shovel issue - £50 for a Diamond?? I have seen a couple of packable ones on Ebay for about £17 made of aluminium.
I have also been directed to a link http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50528
which looks ideal.
However - I would hate to get there and not have the right gear and be freezing for the whole week with equipment that doesnt do the job properly!!

Anyone out there who has been on this course need to rid themselves
of expensive kit at stupidly low prices? if so would like to hear from you,
especially if you have a Berghaus Vulcan size 3, or a pair of Lundhag
Huskys UK size 9 or a Black Diamond Transfer 7 shovel.

Thanks
Blanco

 

[nevetsjc80]

hey all i did this course this year (2010) and it was awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you want to ask any questions feel free to pm me

 

[blanco1962]

Hi Forager

Apprecaite your advice on clothing, the kit list seems excessive did you actually take (and wear) all the kit listed? What boots did you opt for, tempted to follow the advice on Lundhags but they are seriously expensive for a one off trip. Any practical advice would be great

thanks

Blanco

 

[fossil]

My brother -in -law did this 2010 he had a fantastic time
he is Mark Shaw

 

[Gray1100]

Hi
I am thinking of doing this course in 2012.
Can I ask please if anyone here knows.
I've priced the kit at over £2000 (mainly from Woodlore) plus transport and insurance it comes to near £6000 all in.
Has anyone managed to source the kit for less than this amount or is you pay for what you get?
Do you see much of Ray and Lars (are they there to talk to or only instruct then off until the next part).
Can you take photos for yourself (to show the family) as I see so few on the web I am wondering if they are restricted in some way.
Many thanks for your time.
I does sound like a wonderful experience.
Kind Regards
Gray

 

[forestwalker]

Hi
I am thinking of doing this course in 2012.
Can I ask please if anyone here knows.
I've priced the kit at over £2000 (mainly from Woodlore) plus transport and insurance it comes to near £6000 all in.
Has anyone managed to source the kit for less than this amount or is you pay for what you get?

UKP 2000 for kit? Lets see, you will need

Good sleeping bag. The Nanook one sold by RM is supposedly ok. Probably you singlkes most expensive item. Unless you just take two 3-season bags and use one inside the other.

Bivy bag. Polycotton, protects the bag from sparks and such. Takes 30 min to sew it yiou have a machine.

Warm parka; the M90 one is perfect, and dirt cheap (UKP 20?)

Good wool underwear: woolpower is ok, and you can use it anywhere outside the tropics. Pure merino is better, but costs more.

Get an old Swedish army snow camo set (pants and anorak/parka) in cotton, not gucci but good

Mittens; you want a lovikka style knitted mitten (buy two?), and a shell, preferably leather. The lovikka you can buy almost anywhere locally, factory made ones or handknitted. Make the shell (nothing fancy is needed in the line of leather), or buy.

Surplus wool pants (Swedish M58 or equivalent), braces/suspenders rather than belt.

A few wool sweaters, cardigans or wool shirts. Goodwill? You may look like the hobo of the north, but it will work fine. Only need 2-3 of these, don't make them all super-thick, layers is the key word.

Wool beanie. One thin, one thickish. Fur hat is nice but not totally essential.

Wool scarf

Thin gloves for fiddling with ski bindings, etc. Local hardware store is fine

If you end up in really cold weather (-30 C or lower) a pair of insulated overpants will be nice. Any sporting goods store locally, not much for off-brand stuff that will work fine for you (you mostly get durablity for more money).

Boots. IIRC from what I have read the RM course is only every second night out, and then stuff like the Nokian insulated wellies (Tuura IIRC) will work fine. About UKP100, second only to the bland new "arctic" sleeping bag. If you are snowshoeing rather than skiing then a mukluk is better.

Shovel. Local hardware store, petrol station, etc.

The thickest closed cell foam pad you can find will do better than a thermarest.

IMNSHO what they should do is allow you to preorder some of the kit, that is then bought locally (mittens, fur hat, shovel, etc) and given to you as you arrive. Not make you buy gucci kit.

Nowhere near the UKP 2000 mark, well under half that starting naked with a freshly charged credit card, and most of that stuff is usefull for general bushcraft style stuff even in the UK.

 

[sandbender]

Anyone out there who has been on this course need to rid themselves
of expensive kit at stupidly low prices?

I attended this course in 2007.

I cannot help you out with your gear request, I still use all the equipment. The Black Diamond shovel is a gucci piece of gear but you will find something just as useful for less, the course doesn't require you to travel too far with your gear so weight isn't an issue.

The most important things to spend your money on (IMHO) was thermal underwear, the Ullfrotté is well worth the money and will be of much use after the course is over and done, also gloves and mittens, don't skimp on your glove choices! Gloves with removable thermal liners are especially useful.

The kit list from the course I attended went out of its way to point out that you DO NOT need to purchase lots of expensive kit to enjoy the course to the full, they even mention that a past attendee had got by with a set of WW2 khaki battledress.

I wore a pair of Meindle boots, I still wear them each winter.
I carried all my gear in a 100 litre North Face bag, in that was a Karrimor Sabre 45 pack which was all I needed to cart my sleeping bag around when I needed to.

I've priced the kit at over £2000 (mainly from Woodlore) plus transport and insurance it comes to near £6000 all in.
Has anyone managed to source the kit for less than this amount or is you pay for what you get?

Yes, much less, but I didn't take most of the gear they suggested, my greatest expense was the thermal underwear, flights and insurance.

Do you see much of Ray and Lars (are they there to talk to or only instruct then off until the next part).

Lars was there for the whole week for my course, Ray was in Australia at the time. Lars gave the lessons, helped complete tasks and was standing over your snowhole at 05:00 asking if you had had a comfortable night, he was also there in the evenings regaling us with many tales.

Can you take photos for yourself (to show the family) as I see so few on the web I am wondering if they are restricted in some way.

No, no restrictions, you can photograph what you like and put it where you like (however I think they draw the line at people videoing the entirety of a lesson (for obvious reasons)).

Good sleeping bag. The Nanook one sold by RM is supposedly ok. Probably you singlkes most expensive item. Unless you just take two 3-season bags and use one inside the other.

I already owned a Woodlore Golden Eagle sleeping bag, it worked well, nighttime temperatures went down to -40.

Warm parka; the M90 one is perfect, and dirt cheap (UKP 20?)

Thats what I wore.

Boots. IIRC from what I have read the RM course is only every second night out, and then stuff like the Nokian insulated wellies (Tuura IIRC) will work fine.

Only the first and last nights were indoors, and you were welcome to sleep in your snow hole or quinzee on the last night if you prefered.

--

Paul Kirtley (who was the senior Woodlore instructor for my course) has moved on to new things, his blog has a article on 'Clothing for the Northern Wilderness', worth a read through I think.

Hope this helps.

 

[Paul K]

Thanks for the plug Sandbender but the advice that you and Forestwalker give is spot on the mark.

You don't need all the fancy kit for the course. Layers and windproof outers do not need to cost a fortune. If you are going to spend money on anything - look after your hands and feet. But even for mittens, a pair of Swedish surplus leather overmitts and some woollen dachsteins is not expensive. The most important thing with gloves and boots is to avoid gore-tex or similar liners that are integral - they get full of frozen sweat then are difficult to get dry. On several occasions we had to arrange for alternative boots for people who ignored this advice. It's air around your feet that keep them warm, so make sure your boots are big enough to wear two pairs of winter socks and still freely move your toes.

Make sure your gloves come apart - that is make sure you can separate the liners from the outers. You can then have spare liners if you want and even if you don't it all dries much more quickly in a cabin or tent or even by body heat.

When I attended the course as a student I used a 2-season and a 3-season sleeping bag together. It was a bit awkward but I was comfy sleeping out under the stars at minus 30 celsius. Only later when I was working up there every year did I invest in a dedicated sleeping bag. And yes a closed-cell mattress is better than a thermarest. You can use a Thermarest on the course but over time in cold, they fill with frost from the moisture in your breath. So you should really use a thermarest uninflated anyway, which sort of defeats the object!

I also have some army surplus wool trousers that cost me £12. I replaced the metal buttons in the fly with velcro for quick and easy cold-weather access!... You can't really see them properly but I'm wearing them on pages 108-109 of Ray's 'Vanishing World' book if you have that to hand. You certainly can't see the fly...

The M90 is a great warm overcoat and an absolute bargain at £20-25. Much better than the more expensive duvet jackets that stop at the waist. Just buy it big enough to go over the top of your other clothes.

And to echo the advice above, don't worry about what you look like!

All the best

Paul