Conflicting views about bushcraft

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OurAmericanCousin

Tenderfoot
Feb 7, 2015
99
0
SoCalUSA
You can spend a bunch on silk lined, Egyptian cotton, gold thread sewn swim trunks, or you can just cut up an old pair of jeans ........bottom line, if you can't swim to begin with you drown all the same.


Why begrudge anybody owning whatever as long as no one is harmed?
 

Tiley

Full Member
Oct 19, 2006
2,158
229
57
Gloucestershire
Like I said, it's what you do, not what you do it with...

Choice, by its very nature, should remain free otherwise it is not 'choice' in the real sense. Be critical of the person using the knife, if there is justification for such criticism, but do not criticise the tool they are using - that says more about the critic than the tool user.
 
Nov 29, 2004
7,808
8
Scotland
To the OP.

Had you posted your video here and folks had torn into you in the same way, you could justifiably been upset. However these were comments posted on youtube, expect nothing good to appear in youtube comments.

listen_to_yourself.png


There are some very nice expensive knifes out there and there are some very nice cheap ones. Sitting at a computer and referring to anyone as an 'armchair' bushcrafter because of their tool choice is just silly.

:)

Edited to add:

Another from XKCD, expect some colourful language though.
 

John Fenna

Lifetime Member & Maker
Oct 7, 2006
22,281
1,790
64
Pembrokeshire
To the OP.

Had you posted your video here and folks had torn into you in the same way, you could justifiably been upset. However these were comments posted on youtube, expect nothing good to appear in youtube comments.

listen_to_yourself.png


There are some very nice expensive knifes out there and there are some very nice cheap ones. Sitting at a computer and referring to anyone as an 'armchair' bushcrafter because of their tool choice is just silly.

:

Edited to add:

Another from XKCD, expect some colourful language though.

Bad man - that link is addictive!:)
 

Corso

Full Member
Aug 13, 2007
5,084
384
none
To the OP.

Had you posted your video here and folks had torn into you in the same way, you could justifiably been upset. However these were comments posted on youtube, expect nothing good to appear in youtube comments.

listen_to_yourself.png


There are some very nice expensive knifes out there and there are some very nice cheap ones. Sitting at a computer and referring to anyone as an 'armchair' bushcrafter because of their tool choice is just silly.

:)

Edited to add:

Another from XKCD, expect some colourful language though.


What I said but funnier :D
 

Tony

White bear (Admin)
Admin
Apr 16, 2003
22,933
1
1,080
51
Wales
www.bushcraftuk.com
People on this forum and in other bushcraft communities buy too much gear and spend too much on £400 knives. The greatest bushcrafters (people such as mountain men, anglo saxon and medieval hunters and woodsmen, hunter gatherer mesolithich tribes) had "low quality" knives and they did fine. IF you got a knife from a hunter in anglo saxon england and compared it to a £400 bushcraft knife the anglo saxon knife would be a "bad" knife, but these knives did fine. A cheap mora will do fine for years (cody lundin has had a mora classic for over 10 years and it's still fine). I have a condor bushlore which is £34, that does fine than expensive bushcraft and survival knives. Too many people just buy gear and do gear reviews when they could get a cheap knife and actually go outdoors.......:confused:

Here we go, now I'm involved because this is a daft comment, you have no idea what people are like on these forums, you presume way too much, I've never bought a £400 knife and ask anyone that knows me and I carry a penknife or a wooden handled mora most of the time and there's more people like me than there are with £400 knives, hey, in fact your £34 bushlore is more than I spent on my mora, by about 3 times, you're a knife snob then? You're very quick to judge other people and throw your tedious opinions around when for the most part you're wrong and you seem to be of the opinion that everyone else is wrong, firstly you joined with another username and whent on and on with your little rants about the law and how it's your right to hunt how you like, camp how you like with no regard to other people, no respect in your arguments and no respect for the rules we have here on Bushcraft UK, we ban that user as a Troll and then you ask very nicely for this account of yours to be left and you'll be a good boy because you recognise you were ranting inappropriately, I'm all for second chances so saying yes proved once again that I can be a bit of a fool because then you just start slagging off the general membership here and other places with your ill thought assumption and lack of knowledge.

What do you think the value of a knife was in anglo saxon times? let's say you earn £340 a week and your knife is a tenth of your income for one week, would a knife for the average person been just a tenth of their weekly income?

Hey, Nessmuck, what the dickens are you doing having that knife made? Surely you should be using this old file or even this piece of flint, if you don't you're no outdoorsman....

Ray, is it true that because you've got an expensive knife you never get outdoors? Don't you and everyone else know that you need to have a cheap knife to be able to be a proper outdoorsman?

ayyimao, you have no idea and I'm a bit sick of you having no idea, I'm particularly intolerant of you being a member here considering your views on the other members and your lack of ability to recognise when you're on thin ice, when you've been given a second chance etc There's a way to put forward an opinion, and ways of explaining your thoughts on the law, poaching, stealing, illegally camping and your so called God given right to do what you want with no regard for others, there's also ways to voice that you think people spend too much on kit, although surely that's their God given right having earned their own money? and there's definitely good ways to use the forums that I provide and i'm afraid you're not, even with multiple chance to do so.

Sorry for the thread drift everyone, I didn't want there to be any doubt why I'm booting ayyimao.
 
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Bluffer

Nomad
Apr 12, 2013
464
0
North Yorkshire
You can spend a bunch on silk lined, Egyptian cotton, gold thread sewn swim trunks, or you can just cut up an old pair of jeans ........bottom line, if you can't swim to begin with you drown all the same.

I like that.

As I constantly tell my team at work, we all know what the 'Gold Standard' looks like, but we have to be prepared to go out of the door at Silver or Bronze because it's our job.

So in this context, whether we have a £400 knife or a £10 knife, we have to ask ourselves honestly - do we actually know how to use it?
 

mrcharly

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Jan 25, 2011
3,246
33
North Yorkshire, UK
Thanks for the clarification, Tone


I dunno why I'm a forum member. I very rarely even camp, let alone get out in real forest anymore (family not interested).
However, even as an urbanite, I have a stack of sticks seasoning in the garden, I'm working on a feeding platform using butterfly joints, then the next thing will be a 'log cabin' birdhouse.
I could make these with screws, nails etc with some wood from B&Q. But there is more satisfaction just using a knife and opinel saw on wood gathered from hedge trimmings and tree prunings. It's still sort of bushcraft.
 

Angry Pirate

Forager
Jul 24, 2014
198
0
Peak District
To an extent I am guilty of this, not only with bushcraft gear but in my other hobbies such as walking, climbing and airsoft. I see folk with newer technology or more expensive custom kit and often think that it is unnecessary. The key difference to the YouTube troll is that I recognise that this is my issue / problem / prejudice not that of the owners of said kit and I certainly don't begrudge them their better kit.
I tend to buy the best budget or middle of the road kit which will last rather than Gucci new stuff but that is because I have a limited budget and even more limited time to pursue my hobbies so better kit, say a custom knife, would be wasted on me. That said, some mates bought me a very nice bushcraft knife which I do love.
There are folk on this forum whose skills are incredible, whether that's carving spoons, making gear or just (I say just) bushcraft skills and I dare say they could do them with a basic knife but if they choose a better blade to make life easier or just more enjoyable who am I to complain? My skills aren't that great so I'd feel guilty owning kit that was better than I need, so to speak.
Like the car comparison earlier, my colleague bought a Mercedes slk when she retired. Not something I'd aspire to but she loves it and it had long been a dream. Fair play to her, and to anyone else who wants a nicer thing just because. You earn your money, spend it on whatever makes you happy.
 
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Tony

White bear (Admin)
Admin
Apr 16, 2003
22,933
1
1,080
51
Wales
www.bushcraftuk.com
Thanks for the clarification, Tone


I dunno why I'm a forum member. I very rarely even camp, let alone get out in real forest anymore (family not interested).
However, even as an urbanite, I have a stack of sticks seasoning in the garden, I'm working on a feeding platform using butterfly joints, then the next thing will be a 'log cabin' birdhouse.
I could make these with screws, nails etc with some wood from B&Q. But there is more satisfaction just using a knife and opinel saw on wood gathered from hedge trimmings and tree prunings. It's still sort of bushcraft.

You don't have to get out regularly to be involved in the broad term bushcraft, your skills could far outweigh mine, what connects us all is that we're interested in some of the same things, we're all at different levels with different lives doing different things and that's the fantastic mix we bring to the community.
 

vestlenning

Settler
Feb 12, 2015
721
76
Western Norway
Observation during my time on the planet: There are those who pay a lot for something and show it to you talking about how nice it is etc without mentioning the price. Then there are those who talk mainly about how much they paid, the brand etc. Big difference.
 
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superc0ntra

Nomad
Sep 15, 2008
333
3
Sweden
Taking it to a higher level there is not a fundamental difference between the Mora and the custom knife. Both are man made tools brought into the bush, the same goes for the sharpening stones. If he'd really want to make a point, bushcrafting should not be a comparison between two knives in different price classes but between bushcrafting using man made tools and natural ones.
 

leon-1

Full Member
A very fine mentor in Sweden once told us (in so many words) " do not let shiney and expensive kit replace mastering essential skills" and the important thing is for us to practice and practice so that we can DO what is needed with whatever knife is available...expensive or otherwise.

As Leon remarked further down the thread, Mors Kochanski can make virtually any knife talk from the numerous demonstrations available on YouTube and DVD completely due to his mastery of skills and techniques. When talking about his ideal "bush knife" on one of the Karamat videos, his preference is for the Skookum Bushtool....designed by Rod Garcia as his interpretation of Mors' definition in "Bushcraft" and fairly expensive too ! I wonder what your adversary in YouTube would make of that....?

I would say that if people are happy with their skill sets there is no need at all to let other people tell them how to spend their money and it's good that you were encouraging someone else to seek advice as to how to begin their own journey developing their skills

Sometimes I really wish there was a like button on here :D

I like that.

As I constantly tell my team at work, we all know what the 'Gold Standard' looks like, but we have to be prepared to go out of the door at Silver or Bronze because it's our job.

So in this context, whether we have a £400 knife or a £10 knife, we have to ask ourselves honestly - do we actually know how to use it?

Ability over cost is the message, but if you have skill and the money then you buy the best you can afford in the same way we have done with clothing. A kagoul will do the job, but a Mera Peak is a nicer jacket.

Our views and concepts on kit change constantly (a knife is still just kit). One thing that I've learnt over the years is that the more expensive something is the better care you take of it. When I was young I would lust over a new piece of kit, save for months till I could afford to buy it and then be almost too frightened to use it, as I got older I used the kit, my kit husbandry had become better and I knew how to look after my purchases and my skill at using them had become greater.

I still lust after new and expensive pieces of kit, but time has tempered me and my requirements. I have greater understanding of that which I require and what I require of it. My skills and abilities are greater than they were when I was younger, the kit which I own, have bought or had commissioned reflect to a degree that development. I am a big fan of Hultafors, Snow & Nealley, Gransfors, Wilkinson Sword / Fiskars and Norlund for axes. All of them bring something to the party, all are actually very good tools and all are in totally different price brackets. At work I tend to use a Hultafors or a Fiskars axe, but when I am out and about I could be carrying anything.

Bergans/Rucksacks, I have a fair few of them and I have owned Berghaus, Karrimor, Lowe Alpine, TNF and god knows what else. My current favourites are an Alpkit Gourdon 20, an LK35, a Karrimor Sabre 45 and an old Berghaus Cyclps Roc. That's a healthy mix of cheap and expensive, but each fullfills a specific role and it's using the correct tool for the job in hand.

For the year to last 2 years I have mainly been using three sheath knives, an old mora No'1, a Mark Hill Mora Clone and a Guy Stainthorpe neck knife. 2 of the knives would appear on the face of it to be the same knife, but in reality are totally different, they have different steels, the tang is different (stick vs full), the thickness of the steel is different and they sit in different sheaths. Would I be dissapointed to pick up the Mora instead of the Mark Hill, no I wouldn't. I have however got a preference for the Mark Hill knife because that's what I asked for. There is nothing elitist about my choice. It's age, experience and my choice combined with the will to make it happen (which means saving to pay for the knife). I am not buying or using the knife to make a statement, I am buying it and using it because it's the best tool for the job.
 

Goatboy

Full Member
Jan 31, 2005
14,956
13
Scotland
Here is a standard reply to send to such obtuse people.

"Your right to an opinion does not make it the right opinion".

Then block him. :eek:
 
Feb 17, 2012
1,061
77
Surbiton, Surrey
Our views and concepts on kit change constantly (a knife is still just kit). One thing that I've learnt over the years is that the more expensive something is the better care you take of it. When I was young I would lust over a new piece of kit, save for months till I could afford to buy it and then be almost too frightened to use it, as I got older I used the kit, my kit husbandry had become better and I knew how to look after my purchases and my skill at using them had become greater.

.

I must admit I am guilty of this, of the 3 Mora's I own two are well looked after whilst the 3rd is in a fairly poor condition being left dumped in my spare kit pile. The custom knife on the other hand is cleaned, stroped and oiled after almost every use. When I first got it I would give it a quick hone on a waterstone too but as you said now I am more experienced I only hone it when it actually needs it.
There is something about an expensive tool that makes you take more care of it than a cheap one (often considered almost disposable) so if nothing else I suppose it has taught me good tool maintenance and care.
 

Samon

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Mar 24, 2011
3,970
42
Britannia!
Sounds like he got annoyed at the Gucci factor brands and stuff the bushy market endorses so hugely. I mean, I do too, but I don't make such an effort to troll those who give in to the advertising. I like good stuff just as any guy does, my choice not to save up for the expensive stuff is that, my choice. I prefer to make do, unless the item in question is just insanely cool, £400 knives are not likely to ever be in the category..

But he also went a little bit strange?.. I'm aware some of the louder yanks love to bring up politics and history they don't actually understand but he certainly gives me the impression he's sweaty and doesn't blink. lol

Either way, those seemingly outlandish purchases of top end gear fuel the economy, keep makers in business and inspire others and keep the attention to 'our' hobbies.

But, alas youtube is not the place for intelligent conversations. It's a hunting ground for mindless entertainment, the occasional cool video and endless comments from angry butt hurt subscribers!

In short, don't sweat it...
 

leon-1

Full Member
There is something about an expensive tool that makes you take more care of it than a cheap one (often considered almost disposable) so if nothing else I suppose it has taught me good tool maintenance and care.

They call it equipment husbandry. It doesn't have to be learnt by having expensive kit, but you tend to learn it much faster when the kit is more expensive. As to Mora's I have over twenty of them, but I do use them as teaching knives. I also have at least 30 Hultafors knives as well. Every now and again they all require a good going over and that's a weekend gone.
 

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