Boreal Forest, Arctic Bushcraft Course/Exped Lapland, Feb 2015 [Planning]
- Thread starter Dave
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Hey Guest, Early bird pricing on the Summer Moot (29th July - 10th August) available until April 6th, we'd love you to come. PLEASE CLICK HERE to early bird price and get more information.
The only problem with Zippo lighters being warmed by the body is that this will evaporate the petrol. For the same weight, you're better off carrying 3 or 4 good quality plastic gas lighters.
Cheers, Michael.
Cheers, Michael.
Hello Dave you've given a lot of thought to your gear - just some comments from up here near Wunnumin where its already - 12 deg and snowing.
Good question. I understand how to use the celox kit. There are pretty simple instructions inside. And when its needed, nothing else would suffice. I have never sutured anyone. I have been shown how to suture on a suture pad by a nurse.
The local anasthetic, lidocaine, I have had applied to me by surgeons, and nurses, and sat and watched them do it. I have also used lidocaine to inject myself, then used a scalpel to remove a cyst, by cutting around it, gripping it with a pair of fishing hamestats, a cyst is like a piece of grissle. Syringing with an iodine wash, [which a nurse told me later they only use on animals these days?] and packing with an aquacell ribbon, which is a cotton material, which turns into an antiseptic gel in the wound. Aquacell is used if the wound is too deep to stitch. A stab wound for instance, would be treated this way, once a CT scan had proven it had not nicked any organs, bowels, arteries etc. The dressing, or aquacell is then changed daily to stop sepsis. Ive had this done to me and Ive done this to myself. Would I be 'allowed' to do it? Probably not. Im in no way professionally trained to do it. But would I do it? Yes. Call me reckless but If I sliced open my femoral artery by accident, Id be glad to have the celox, and would I use it on myself, if I had to? Yes. Am I medically trained? No. Would I much prefer to get by without injury? Yes. Would I much prefer to have a properly trained wilderness paramedic standing next to me if a serious accident occured?
Yes. Would some people chastise me, telling me by trying to do good, I could do more harm? Yes. Would they be right? Yes. If I was by myself, would I do what i could anyway? Yes.
That was really not about the weight. I had a small tube of colgate, which happened to fit neatly into a coglans toothbrush holder, with the half toothbrush.
Yes, good idea. Hope the ladies on the course dont mind me doing that. Must be some protocol, Im sure we'll be taught.
You dont use mukluks? Or just the surplus ones? The canvas mukluks with felted wool liners, and mesh insoles to capture the moisture, are for dry cold, and the pacboots are for wet cold, say up to -15c.-20c Thats the theory anyway. We may get given cross country ski boots for all i know. Im hoping for temperatures approaching -40. In which case, I would wear three pairs of surplus socks, felted wool bootie, two felt insoles and mesh liner. What I like about the USAF ones is that they fit me really well.
Yep. Were all closet pyromaniacs on here.
Thats a good idea.
I guess part of the trick is learning not to sweat. So a thinner beanie may come in handy when working hard, like building a quinze, and a thicker ushanka hat, when stood still.
Thanks for that Joe. Ive treated the hestra gloves with the balm they came with. I dont know which will be best when swinging an axe. Again, its all down to personal experimentation. I'll see what I like, and dont like. Ill probably have my gauntlet mitts and dachsteins in my smock pockets, to use when standing around, and maybe use them when its real cold, and use my hestra falt gloves when doing stuff. And keep the third pair in a dry bag in my day pack.
Thats what I had planned to do.
Thats sounds very sophisticated, and I hope the tutors are as good as they appear to be.
Love to see some photos from you Joe.
Chers Rudd, I like to read a good kit list myself.
Good question. I understand how to use the celox kit. There are pretty simple instructions inside. And when its needed, nothing else would suffice. I have never sutured anyone. I have been shown how to suture on a suture pad by a nurse. The local anasthetic, lidocaine, I have had applied to me by surgeons, and nurses, and sat and watched them do it. I have also used lidocaine to inject myself, then used a scalpel to remove a cyst, by cutting around it, gripping it with a pair of fishing hamestats, a cyst is like a piece of grissle.
Syringing with an iodine wash, [which a nurse told me later they only use on animals these days?] and packing with an aquacell ribbon, which is a cotton material, which turns into an antiseptic gel in the wound. Aquacell is used if the wound is too deep to stitch. A stab wound for instance, would be treated this way, once a CT scan had proven it had not nicked any organs, bowels, arteries etc. The dressing, or aquacell is then changed daily to stop sepsis. Ive had this done to me and Ive done this to myself. Would I be 'allowed' to do it? Probably not. Im in no way professionally trained to do it. But would I do it? Yes. Call me reckless but If I sliced open my femoral artery by accident, Id be glad to have the celox, and would I use it on myself, if I had to? Yes. Am I medically trained? No. Would I much prefer to get by without injury? Yes. Would I much prefer to have a properly trained wilderness paramedic standing next to me if a serious accident occured? Yes. Would some people chastise me, telling me by trying to do good, I could do more harm? Yes. Would they be right? Yes. If I was by myself, would I do what i could anyway? Yes.
That was really not about the weight.
I had a small tube of colgate, which happened to fit neatly into a coglans toothbrush holder, with the half toothbrush.Yes, good idea. Hope the ladies on the course dont mind me doing that. Must be some protocol, Im sure we'll be taught.
You dont use mukluks? Or just the surplus ones? The canvas mukluks with felted wool liners, and mesh insoles to capture the moisture, are for dry cold, and the pacboots are for wet cold, say up to -15c.-20c Thats the theory anyway. We may get given cross country ski boots for all i know.
Im hoping for temperatures approaching -40. In which case, I would wear three pairs of surplus socks, felted wool bootie, two felt insoles and mesh liner. What I like about the USAF ones is that they fit me really well.Yep. Were all closet pyromaniacs on here.
Thats a good idea.
They are in an aloksack. so hopefully not broken or dirty, but interesting observations, Im there to learn, and will see if that happens.
I guess part of the trick is learning not to sweat. So a thinner beanie may come in handy when working hard, like building a quinze, and a thicker ushanka hat, when stood still.
Thanks for that Joe. Ive treated the hestra gloves with the balm they came with. I dont know which will be best when swinging an axe. Again, its all down to personal experimentation. I'll see what I like, and dont like. Ill probably have my gauntlet mitts and dachsteins in my smock pockets, to use when standing around, and maybe use them when its real cold, and use my hestra falt gloves when doing stuff. And keep the third pair in a dry bag in my day pack.
Thats what I had planned to do.
Thats sounds very sophisticated, and I hope the tutors are as good as they appear to be.
Love to see some photos from you Joe.
Chers Rudd,
I like to read a good kit list myself.
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The local anasthetic, lidocaine, I have had applied to me by surgeons, and nurses, and sat and watched them do it. I have also used lidocaine to inject myself, then used a scalpel to remove a cyst, by cutting around it, gripping it with a pair of fishing hamestats, a cyst is like a piece of grissle.
Yes. Would some people chastise me, telling me by trying to do good, I could do more harm? Yes. Would they be right? Yes. If I was by myself, would I do what i could anyway? Yes.
If you are not trained, I personally would buy/make that nurse a big mug of tea, and get her to go through the suture thing until you can do it practically on muscle memory.
I notice that you have no PLB on you, and I am not sure what course you are doing or what they provide, but if it was me I would want to have a PLB of some kind. If I am opening the celox, high up the list of things I would be doing next is hitting the magic button and hoping for a rapid whirly bird.
For anything where you are doing much more than applying a dressing or plaster, you really want to be looking at exfil options.
I say this from a pre hospital care point of view, rather than a grizzled Arctic veteran, I am very open to being corrected.
As long as it's not my bottle you're using and I don't wake up to find your tackle in my face, I wouldn't mind. I don't think I can speak for all womenkind tho.
Yep. Were all closet pyromaniacs on here.
Speak for yourself, I think most of us left that closet long ago...
Julia
Hey Dave,
Julia is probably right. Anyways if you are on a course they won't expect you to start doing open heart surgery on your fellow travellers. ;-) I don't think you will be doing anything like skinning Moose where you might have an accident anyways!!
Don't forget to empty the P bottle as soon as you've used it otherwise it will be frozen solid in the morning!!
The problem with those canvas mukluks is they get wet easily from what I seen and freeze up.. Most of us use store bought leather boots, sometimes in winter rubber boots (good for canoeing in cold before the rivers freeze. wellingtons?), and sometimes wives or mothers make footwear from moose or cariboo. Trouble is they are good, warm and comfy but don't last as good as store bought leather ones.
You'll learn a lot more from being in the cold! Experience is a good teacher.
Wadji, wamminium. te'hsei
Julia is probably right. Anyways if you are on a course they won't expect you to start doing open heart surgery on your fellow travellers. ;-) I don't think you will be doing anything like skinning Moose where you might have an accident anyways!!
Don't forget to empty the P bottle as soon as you've used it otherwise it will be frozen solid in the morning!!
The problem with those canvas mukluks is they get wet easily from what I seen and freeze up.. Most of us use store bought leather boots, sometimes in winter rubber boots (good for canoeing in cold before the rivers freeze. wellingtons?), and sometimes wives or mothers make footwear from moose or cariboo. Trouble is they are good, warm and comfy but don't last as good as store bought leather ones.
You'll learn a lot more from being in the cold! Experience is a good teacher.
Wadji, wamminium. te'hsei
Looking pretty sorted Dave to me.
Yes, you can take sweets/nuts/chocs and other foods through airport security. Ice spikes are available in any decentoutdoor shop out there. If you want some beforehand, I'd order direct from Scandi. Dead easy to make a set yoursef though.
My wash routine is before and after the trip only with iodine spray on suscesptible areas and a hot baby wipe wash when needed. YMMV.
I strongly recommend taking some cream for cracked fingers/hands if none of the listed above remedies are suitable. A Nalgene (not the BPA free type) makes a very very good hot water bottle at night and makes a nice morning hand warmer. Also very good for drying kit.
Be careful with the Zippos, securtiy like to confiscate. They need to by dry and smell free. The one you rely on should be taken through security yourself so you can replace if it gets taken.
Sleep system should be plenty warm enough and very reliable.
Nice list Dave.
Yes, you can take sweets/nuts/chocs and other foods through airport security. Ice spikes are available in any decentoutdoor shop out there. If you want some beforehand, I'd order direct from Scandi. Dead easy to make a set yoursef though.
My wash routine is before and after the trip only with iodine spray on suscesptible areas and a hot baby wipe wash when needed. YMMV.
I strongly recommend taking some cream for cracked fingers/hands if none of the listed above remedies are suitable. A Nalgene (not the BPA free type) makes a very very good hot water bottle at night and makes a nice morning hand warmer. Also very good for drying kit.
Be careful with the Zippos, securtiy like to confiscate. They need to by dry and smell free. The one you rely on should be taken through security yourself so you can replace if it gets taken.
Sleep system should be plenty warm enough and very reliable.
Nice list Dave.
Looking pretty sorted Dave to me.
Yes, you can take sweets/nuts/chocs and other foods through airport security. Ice spikes are available in any decentoutdoor shop out there. If you want some beforehand, I'd order direct from Scandi. Dead easy to make a set yoursef though.
My wash routine is before and after the trip only with iodine spray on suscesptible areas and a hot baby wipe wash when needed. YMMV.
I strongly recommend taking some cream for cracked fingers/hands if none of the listed above remedies are suitable. A Nalgene (not the BPA free type) makes a very very good hot water bottle at night and makes a nice morning hand warmer. Also very good for drying kit.
Be careful with the Zippos, securtiy like to confiscate. They need to by dry and smell free. The one you rely on should be taken through security yourself so you can replace if it gets taken.
Sleep system should be plenty warm enough and very reliable.
Nice list Dave.
Thats brilliant Pete, thanks mate, just the info I was after!
looks pretty comprehensive.
A few questions though; That quite a lot of kit, how are you moving it around? what i mean do you intend to carry it? If so i would give some consideration to the amount of exertion, and the terrain. walking through deep snow, even on snow shoes is quite tiring and uses a lot of energy, add to this a large pack, and you'll be sweating buckets in short order; not something i would recommends in the very cold, a pulk/toboggan/etc will be a much better solution, and can be used to collect fire-wood, as a make-shift bench, and shelter wall, and failing anything else, something you can sit on and zoom down hills on.... Teepee has made some fantastic, and practical versions, and could probably point you in he right direction on where to get the stuff.
Buckles, zips, and buttons.
At sub -30 you will not want to expose your hands to the cold for more than necessary, I noticed some of the buttons on your kit are quite small, I would recommend putting on your outer gloves and try to button, and zip thing up!! you'll see what I mean afterwards.. Add zip tapes and button loops its the small things that tend to drive you nuts up there.. and take spare laces
metal and the very cold.
I'm sure somewhere you'll be taking sun glasses, and a few other items that are made from metal and will be coming in contact with your skin. I've seen quite few instances of people loosing layers of skin because they didn't think about the metal frames of their glasses, etc.. a bit of heat shrink or other tape can solve these particular issues fairly easily.
Batteries.
Batteries are extremely prone to issues in the cold, keep anything electrical very well insulated, as well as any spare batteries or power packs as they will be useless if you don't
Have fun, enjoy, think before you act, and take your time, nothing is a rush up there.
Have a great time.
Da
A few questions though; That quite a lot of kit, how are you moving it around? what i mean do you intend to carry it? If so i would give some consideration to the amount of exertion, and the terrain. walking through deep snow, even on snow shoes is quite tiring and uses a lot of energy, add to this a large pack, and you'll be sweating buckets in short order; not something i would recommends in the very cold, a pulk/toboggan/etc will be a much better solution, and can be used to collect fire-wood, as a make-shift bench, and shelter wall, and failing anything else, something you can sit on and zoom down hills on.... Teepee has made some fantastic, and practical versions, and could probably point you in he right direction on where to get the stuff.
Buckles, zips, and buttons.
At sub -30 you will not want to expose your hands to the cold for more than necessary, I noticed some of the buttons on your kit are quite small, I would recommend putting on your outer gloves and try to button, and zip thing up!! you'll see what I mean afterwards.. Add zip tapes and button loops its the small things that tend to drive you nuts up there.. and take spare laces
metal and the very cold.
I'm sure somewhere you'll be taking sun glasses, and a few other items that are made from metal and will be coming in contact with your skin. I've seen quite few instances of people loosing layers of skin because they didn't think about the metal frames of their glasses, etc.. a bit of heat shrink or other tape can solve these particular issues fairly easily.
Batteries.
Batteries are extremely prone to issues in the cold, keep anything electrical very well insulated, as well as any spare batteries or power packs as they will be useless if you don't
Have fun, enjoy, think before you act, and take your time, nothing is a rush up there.
Have a great time.
Da
Hi Da
No, were not carrying any more than a 30litre day pack. [and my belt kit] The rest of the time we'll be using a local a sami katta as a base camp, or using pulks. [The photos Ive linked give a pretty good idea of what the course entails]
The smallest buttons would be on the outside of the m39 trousers. Ive got poly contact gloves with me. The buttons on my smock are easy enough to open with the hestra falts. Dont know about the mitts though! Il double check everything again, to see if Ive missed any tapes.
I'll be using maui jims, which should be perfect for the cold. Rubber and plastic and foam. Ive had the oakleys for about 16 years, and theyre still going strong.
I'll be keeping the powergen in spare socks in the day pack. And hoping the peli case offers some protection.
Cheers. Will do. And am looking forward to it. Its been 15 years since I was out in british columbia at -20 I hope to experience even colder weather up there though.
No, were not carrying any more than a 30litre day pack. [and my belt kit] The rest of the time we'll be using a local a sami katta as a base camp, or using pulks. [The photos Ive linked give a pretty good idea of what the course entails]
The smallest buttons would be on the outside of the m39 trousers. Ive got poly contact gloves with me. The buttons on my smock are easy enough to open with the hestra falts. Dont know about the mitts though! Il double check everything again, to see if Ive missed any tapes.
I'll be using maui jims, which should be perfect for the cold. Rubber and plastic and foam. Ive had the oakleys for about 16 years, and theyre still going strong.I'll be keeping the powergen in spare socks in the day pack. And hoping the peli case offers some protection.
Cheers.
Will do. And am looking forward to it. Its been 15 years since I was out in british columbia at -20 I hope to experience even colder weather up there though.
It sounds then you have pretty much got everything under control. anything you're not sure off, stick it in a bag in the freezer (its only -18 I know, but its a useful benchmark ) overnight, and if it still works in the morning its a winner.
Take loads of pictures and I look forward to you're write-up
Da
Take loads of pictures and I look forward to you're write-up
Da
One of the items on my 'shopping list' was a pair of skoban.
Colorful sami shoelaces, which wrap around the top of your boot, where it meets your trousers. Just about impossible to order online.
Seen Paul Kirtley and Ray Mears wearing them in photos, and I think Wayland made a pair.
However I've just sourced THESE, original ww2 belgian army surplus all wool leg gaitors, which seem to serve exactly the same purpose for £10.99
Attached something like this:
[video=youtube;IQrmSWaBCJE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQrmSWaBCJE[/video]
Colorful sami shoelaces, which wrap around the top of your boot, where it meets your trousers. Just about impossible to order online.
Seen Paul Kirtley and Ray Mears wearing them in photos, and I think Wayland made a pair.
However I've just sourced THESE, original ww2 belgian army surplus all wool leg gaitors, which seem to serve exactly the same purpose for £10.99
Attached something like this:
[video=youtube;IQrmSWaBCJE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQrmSWaBCJE[/video]
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There are several duodji-stores that sell these.
The norwegian word for them are skallebånd. The samii word is vuotta.
Heres one: http://www.gavpi.com/duodji---handarbeid/skalleband-duskegarn
The norwegian word for them are skallebånd. The samii word is vuotta.
Heres one: http://www.gavpi.com/duodji---handarbeid/skalleband-duskegarn
- Huh, thanks for the link Skaukraft, maybe I'll get some when Im over there. It must be the piuttees Ive ordered then, apparently used by soldiers in winter warfare for centuries, so should be up to the job.
This is from a re-enactment site, of the Perth Regiment of Canada.
H: PUTTEES
Puttees are made of greenish khaki or brown wool and are wrapped around the calf over the top of the boots and bottom of the trousers. Puttees worn during the Second World War are known as "short puttees" and were normally about 42 inches long with 54 inch long tapes. They were superior to Web Anklets in keeping sand and pebbles out of the boots and provided better ankle support than Web Anklets. Light fawn coloured puttees are the perogative of Officers and Warrant Officers and are not to be worn by Other Ranks.
Typical wool puttees. A useful method of storing them in order to wrap them quickly is to roll them with the tapes on the inside.(bottom pair)
In order to put puttees on, the bottom of the trousers are first folded inwards and tucked inside the top of the boots. Ensure that the trousers are loose enough to blouse down over the puttees. The laces are wrapped around the top of the boots and tied.
Starting on the center outside of the calf, about 2 inches below the top of the boot, the puttee is wrapped around clockwise on the right ankle and counter clockwise on the left ankle.
The puttee may either be wrapped in one layer or with a 1/2 inch showing between each turn. The end of the puttee should be centered on the outside of the ankle.
The tape is wrapped around centered on the "V" in one layer and folded under and tied on the inside of the calf.
It takes a bit of practise to get the position of the end of the puttee and the tape in the correct location, but the final result is worth the effort.
I didnt do a full report Bob no. Tony put a short report and our youtube video on the front page.
http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/content.php?r=681-Arctic-Bushcraft-Course-Swedish-Lapland
http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/content.php?r=681-Arctic-Bushcraft-Course-Swedish-Lapland
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