Whats the best grind for your ideal bushcraft knife?
- Thread starter British Red
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I guess that's one interpretation. By the same token, all three favored lightweight, thin-bladed knives with a useable point that were not too long and had comfortable handles. True, ol' George was a first-rate huckster but he sold a lot of useful knives that are still around today.
the fourth knife down..what is that? some sort of canadian belt knife?
Have you read this whole thread matey? it has tonnes of info which could help you to find your way. I don't think there is a best grind for this or that, more a personal taste kind of choice as much as the knife you have it on is too. Sorry, I'm not helping am I?
We don't see many scandi ground knives here in the USA. Although I do have a Mora, I never really warmed up to it. My favorite Every Day Carry (EDC) knife is a flat ground Spyderco Delica folder. For the bush, I like my larger, flat-ground Spyderco Manix folder, a Leatherman Wave multitool, and my Chris Reeve Mark VI which has a slight hollow grind. I'm thinking about getting one of Spyderco's new Scandi-ground Bushcraft models which was greatly influenced by UK bushcrafters like Ray Mears.
After a lot of testing on tropical plants, various forest woods, desert plants and hardwoods, and game animals, I prefer a thin flat grind or a hollow ground blade over the scandi grind.
Of the knives I use in the bush, I've found my old Western W66 with chrome-vanadium carbon steel, flat ground blade, and my homemade puukko with the same grind and same steel (it was made from a salvaged L66 blade), still out-cuts my laminated Mora (I keep the Mora razor sharp), and it doesn't matter if it's bamboo or disassembling a white tail deer.
I've also found the same is true for the hollow grinds on my old 440C stainless, ultra-hard Buck knives, and my Ka-Bar Mule folder which has a blade of AUS-8A stainless. BTW, if anyone is considering a folder for use out in the bush, I highly recommend the Ka-Bar Mule.
Few things beat out the old, super hard 440C hollow ground Buck knives for disassembling large animals into useful food and materials. While I'll have either the W66, my puukko knife, or the Mule as a do everything knife, and they will work on game just fine, however, if possible, I'll have my Buck knives in my kit for disassembling game.
Game disassembly tools: Buck 105 and a Buck 103 with old style, very hard, hollow ground 440C blades. That pair will totally disassemble an elk with no need to stop and resharpen.
Western W66 Flat ground, 0176-6C steel, 4-3/8" (11cm) blade
Custom Mora: 4-1/4" laminated carbon blade
Of the knives I use in the bush, I've found my old Western W66 with chrome-vanadium carbon steel, flat ground blade, and my homemade puukko with the same grind and same steel (it was made from a salvaged L66 blade), still out-cuts my laminated Mora (I keep the Mora razor sharp), and it doesn't matter if it's bamboo or disassembling a white tail deer.
I've also found the same is true for the hollow grinds on my old 440C stainless, ultra-hard Buck knives, and my Ka-Bar Mule folder which has a blade of AUS-8A stainless. BTW, if anyone is considering a folder for use out in the bush, I highly recommend the Ka-Bar Mule.
Few things beat out the old, super hard 440C hollow ground Buck knives for disassembling large animals into useful food and materials. While I'll have either the W66, my puukko knife, or the Mule as a do everything knife, and they will work on game just fine, however, if possible, I'll have my Buck knives in my kit for disassembling game.
Game disassembly tools: Buck 105 and a Buck 103 with old style, very hard, hollow ground 440C blades. That pair will totally disassemble an elk with no need to stop and resharpen.
Western W66 Flat ground, 0176-6C steel, 4-3/8" (11cm) blade
Custom Mora: 4-1/4" laminated carbon blade
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Everone has their own personal preference but I tend to look at it this way.
The more convex a blade is the better it will generally cut through thick/solid materials.
For finer cutting a shallow angle (as found with hollow grinding) is better.
Let's compare to extreme examples.
1st of all the axe.
This usually has a convex grind as all the blade edge actually does is to introduce the beard of the blade into the inital cut.
It is then the weight of the axe combined with the energy of the swing, & the shape of the convex beard that continues to split/cut the wood.
Has anyone ever seen a hollow ground axe?
Might be the odd specialist jobbie floating about but rarelly will you see anything but a convex blade on a good, well made axe.
On the other hand we have the surgeon's scalpel.
Now here some are no doubt going to say "yeah but the scalpel isn't hollow ground either"
That's true - it doesn't have to be. The blade is so thin that a straight angle can be employed with a scalpel.
However, if you were to use a blade that thin for bushcraft you would almost certainly break it or at best chip the edge.
With a 'general purpose' knife you need a reasonsable thickness spine to avoid breakage.
*If that knife is also expected to cut finely then there's only two ways to achieve it;
1. Either have a very deep blade belly in the knife to allow a straight grind to taper sufficiently to the fine edge required, or
2. use a hollow grind.
So, generally the more convex the blade the better is will cut heavy materials.
The finer the blade angle the better is will slice cleanly rather than tearing with light materials.
With regards knives, I generally use a mix of hollow ground blades, straight grinds, scandis, & double bevel grinds.
A knife is almost always a tool of compromise. You carry one not knowing exactly what it may end up being used for.
You can often guess at it's use (Ie there's a pretty good chance most bushcraft blades will be used for some level of wood work)
So you can often make an 'informned choice' based on that expectation.
If I know I'm going to be skinning animals, etc then I might choose a hollow grind knife over the scandi ground blade.
The reason Mora use a scandi is that their knives are often associated with wood work & the scandi is a better choiuce there than a hollow ground blade. Actually most moras are double ground rather than true scandi's.
Bill.
The more convex a blade is the better it will generally cut through thick/solid materials.
For finer cutting a shallow angle (as found with hollow grinding) is better.
Let's compare to extreme examples.
1st of all the axe.
This usually has a convex grind as all the blade edge actually does is to introduce the beard of the blade into the inital cut.
It is then the weight of the axe combined with the energy of the swing, & the shape of the convex beard that continues to split/cut the wood.
Has anyone ever seen a hollow ground axe?
Might be the odd specialist jobbie floating about but rarelly will you see anything but a convex blade on a good, well made axe.
On the other hand we have the surgeon's scalpel.
Now here some are no doubt going to say "yeah but the scalpel isn't hollow ground either"
That's true - it doesn't have to be. The blade is so thin that a straight angle can be employed with a scalpel.
However, if you were to use a blade that thin for bushcraft you would almost certainly break it or at best chip the edge.
With a 'general purpose' knife you need a reasonsable thickness spine to avoid breakage.
*If that knife is also expected to cut finely then there's only two ways to achieve it;
1. Either have a very deep blade belly in the knife to allow a straight grind to taper sufficiently to the fine edge required, or
2. use a hollow grind.
So, generally the more convex the blade the better is will cut heavy materials.
The finer the blade angle the better is will slice cleanly rather than tearing with light materials.
With regards knives, I generally use a mix of hollow ground blades, straight grinds, scandis, & double bevel grinds.
A knife is almost always a tool of compromise. You carry one not knowing exactly what it may end up being used for.
You can often guess at it's use (Ie there's a pretty good chance most bushcraft blades will be used for some level of wood work)
So you can often make an 'informned choice' based on that expectation.
If I know I'm going to be skinning animals, etc then I might choose a hollow grind knife over the scandi ground blade.
The reason Mora use a scandi is that their knives are often associated with wood work & the scandi is a better choiuce there than a hollow ground blade. Actually most moras are double ground rather than true scandi's.
Bill.
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I like a thin high convex with a micro bevel. last longer then the other grinds and is easy to resharpen with a ceramic rod or stroph
Just read this thread from end to end (started in 2006!), as I'm currently trying to decide between the convex grind (my preference thus far given most of my knives are Bark River) and the old Scandi which seems to be the "approved" bushcraft grind due to Ray Mears.
There is such a wide variety of opinions: scandi seems to be be great for woodwork but will go blunt very quickly whereas convex will stay sharp longer but not so good for the detailed woodwork.
Going camping in a few weeks so will test out my Enzo Trapper (Scandi) in S30V versus Bark River Gunny (Convex) in CPM 3V. Australian wood is much harder than what I've seen of UK and US wood - so I'm guessing Scandi will do well initially but in the end Convex will come out on top.
P.S. - Not sure why you'd have a convex edge with a secondary bevel (or even a scandi with a secondary bevel) - seems to me it defeats the purpose of the grind.... Aim is 0 degrees in both cases...
There is such a wide variety of opinions: scandi seems to be be great for woodwork but will go blunt very quickly whereas convex will stay sharp longer but not so good for the detailed woodwork.
Going camping in a few weeks so will test out my Enzo Trapper (Scandi) in S30V versus Bark River Gunny (Convex) in CPM 3V. Australian wood is much harder than what I've seen of UK and US wood - so I'm guessing Scandi will do well initially but in the end Convex will come out on top.
P.S. - Not sure why you'd have a convex edge with a secondary bevel (or even a scandi with a secondary bevel) - seems to me it defeats the purpose of the grind.... Aim is 0 degrees in both cases...
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I'm with you. Until recently the only thing I paid attention to when selecting a knife was blade material and profile. For 40+ years I have always run my blade over a stone at about 20-22 degrees (I estimate). I assume this kind of defeats the purpose of the different grinds but, it gives me a durable edge that I can re-sharpen at a lower angle, in a pinch, to razor sharp, if need be. I've always been happy with that method because that's how I was taught. It's only been a year at most that I've been involved with BC forums of any kind and I must admit, sometimes I feel a bit dated. Now I'm beginning to attempt to learn more about edge geometry. Guess I'm always interested in something new.
I started off in love with scandi, but I've really found a place for a good convex edge recently. I have much to learn still, especially about edge geometry etc...
Anyone recommend a good book to learn about knife steels, grinds, geometry, sharpening etc..?
There's lots available online I'm sure, but you can't beat a good bit of parchment!
Anyone recommend a good book to learn about knife steels, grinds, geometry, sharpening etc..?
There's lots available online I'm sure, but you can't beat a good bit of parchment!
I guess I'm not so much a knife nut after all. Here's my take on it...
If it cuts through wood like sausage and cuts through sausage like wood, I'm good and happy. Every knife I've ever had could do that easily. I prefer Carbon steel but I'm
still not sure if it takes a better edge or if it just feels better in motion. It feels more alive, more organic somehow.
I have a Mora Heavy duty which came with a Scandi but had a micro bevel which was actually big enough to be a secondary bevel and although it never feels sharp on my fingers
it goes through wood and sausages well.
I have an EKA Swede 8 Sandvic steel 12C27 hollow grind which had a too thick secondary bevel so I removed, it sharpening the hollow to zero. It also goes through
wood and sausages very well and so far has kept it's edge well without rolling.
I had a Condor Basic 5 inch which came with a strange sort of convexed Scandi PLUS a micro bevel. Very odd but razor sharp and that 1075 steel could be sharpened on a rock. It ate wood and sausages for breakfast, as does my Svord Peasant mini and Arthur Wright Lambsfoot.
I'm just a lover of Carbon steel I guess but the thing is they all cut well and can all be sharpened easily on a rock if required, an attribute which I regard highly.
My latest possession is handmade by a Danish guy. O2 carbon, 25 degree inclusive Scandi with no micro bevel, 3 3/4 inch blade. The Mora Heavy duty seems like a toy in comparison I don't know why. It is my first full scandi and first handmade knife and I'm astounded by it's silky smooth ability to glide through wood. So far I've refrained from cutting sausages with it as it just looks so nice but I'm working on that. I'll probably refrain from sharpening it on a gravestone though (for now).
I guess that's my long winded way of saying a knifes ability to cut and take an edge easily without proper sharpening tools, is more important to me than edge retention, regardless of the type of grind. I'll still vote Scandi in the poll though as it's still new to me and I'm liking it a lot.
If it cuts through wood like sausage and cuts through sausage like wood, I'm good and happy. Every knife I've ever had could do that easily. I prefer Carbon steel but I'm
still not sure if it takes a better edge or if it just feels better in motion. It feels more alive, more organic somehow.
I have a Mora Heavy duty which came with a Scandi but had a micro bevel which was actually big enough to be a secondary bevel and although it never feels sharp on my fingers
it goes through wood and sausages well.
I have an EKA Swede 8 Sandvic steel 12C27 hollow grind which had a too thick secondary bevel so I removed, it sharpening the hollow to zero. It also goes through
wood and sausages very well and so far has kept it's edge well without rolling.
I had a Condor Basic 5 inch which came with a strange sort of convexed Scandi PLUS a micro bevel. Very odd but razor sharp and that 1075 steel could be sharpened on a rock. It ate wood and sausages for breakfast, as does my Svord Peasant mini and Arthur Wright Lambsfoot.
I'm just a lover of Carbon steel I guess but the thing is they all cut well and can all be sharpened easily on a rock if required, an attribute which I regard highly.
My latest possession is handmade by a Danish guy. O2 carbon, 25 degree inclusive Scandi with no micro bevel, 3 3/4 inch blade. The Mora Heavy duty seems like a toy in comparison I don't know why. It is my first full scandi and first handmade knife and I'm astounded by it's silky smooth ability to glide through wood. So far I've refrained from cutting sausages with it as it just looks so nice but I'm working on that. I'll probably refrain from sharpening it on a gravestone though (for now).
I guess that's my long winded way of saying a knifes ability to cut and take an edge easily without proper sharpening tools, is more important to me than edge retention, regardless of the type of grind. I'll still vote Scandi in the poll though as it's still new to me and I'm liking it a lot.
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