What Cordage, rope etc is in your kit?

[Peter_t]

i used to carry para cord but it does get expensive and now the only bits i have are on my tarp.


does nobody else use jute twine?

its so cheep at £1 for a 4 inch wide ball (dont know how many meters but i guess 200) and jute is supriseingly strong.
i have used it to tention bucksaws with no problem, in fact it does a great job because it does not stretch like nylon. it is also great for lashing tripods for hanging the billy from and for shelter building.
another big advantage is that it is bio-degradeable so when your finished with it just leave it in the woods.


also not all climbing ropes are dynamic. for tree climbing semi-static ropes are the norm. these arn't quite static as fully static ropes are very stiff and don't take knots well. in tree climbing you never climb above where your rope is attached and your ropes are always tort or have very little slack so they never encounter shock loads.
tree climbing ropes are usually specialist ropes of 11-13mm diameter such as yale xtc 16 strand or some old timers, or if your on a budget use 12mm three strand nylon but the stretch of nylon is undesirable.



pete

 

[Minotaur]

In an emergency situation Type III paracord (real stuff not the cheap knock-off) has a breaking strain of @550lbs, more than adequate for a full body weight abseil.

Think you got a problem with that. Maybe someone knows the maths of it but X distance increase you weight by Y much, so you would have to know that before hand.

The 3 strand nylon I use most often is 8mm dia, again I would be happy to abseil off this. If you want a rope for messing about with and abseiling/top rope climbing then 8mm semi static abseil/caving rope, it's fairly lightweight and very useful. Sailing ropes tend to more expensive, as is everything when you put the word Marine in front of it, and yachties replace ropes fairly regularly.
Apart from mechanical and chemical damage U.V. is the most harmful thing to ropes.

I do agree about the Marine price thing, but sailing ropes are the most hard used rope in the world, so maybe they on to something.

i used to carry para cord but it does get expensive and now the only bits i have are on my tarp.

It good stuff, but the Lightweight in me is starting to look at other stuff. The Spectra stuff is in a lot of cases twice as strong and less thick.

does nobody else use jute twine?

Nearly everyone so far I think.

its so cheep at £1 for a 4 inch wide ball (dont know how many meters but i guess 200) and jute is supriseingly strong.
i have used it to tention bucksaws with no problem, in fact it does a great job because it does not stretch like nylon. it is also great for lashing tripods for hanging the billy from and for shelter building.
another big advantage is that it is bio-degradeable so when your finished with it just leave it in the woods.

Bang on!

also not all climbing ropes are dynamic. for tree climbing semi-static ropes are the norm. these arn't quite static as fully static ropes are very stiff and don't take knots well. in tree climbing you never climb above where your rope is attached and your ropes are always tort or have very little slack so they never encounter shock loads.
tree climbing ropes are usually specialist ropes of 11-13mm diameter such as yale xtc 16 strand or some old timers, or if your on a budget use 12mm three strand nylon but the stretch of nylon is undesirable.

Was always taught that there are two types of climbing rope, made of different materials, with slightly different properties.

 

[pastymuncher]

Think you got a problem with that. Maybe someone knows the maths of it but X distance increase you weight by Y much, so you would have to know that before hand.

Your weight does not increase with distance, unless you take into consideration the weight of the cord and distance from the centre of the earth. You would weigh the same at the end of a 200m abseil as you would at 2m. 550lb para cord would be adequate for a couple of people if the cord was routed correctly and your a very very smooth abseiler, I wouldn't choose to do it unless life or death, but I would do it.
Not forgetting that even the best knots weaken the cord by at least 25%

I do agree about the Marine price thing, but sailing ropes are the most hard used rope in the world, so maybe they on to something.

Many sailors use retired climbing ropes.
5mm spectra/dyneema is the same stuff marine or not as are many ropes. I have lived and worked on boats most of my life and many sailors will use the cheapest rope they can get away with.

Was always taught that there are two types of climbing rope, made of different materials, with slightly different properties.

A rope for lead climbing is used when climbing above your last piece of protection. where there is potential for a shock loading the system, hence the stretch (dynamic) aspect of the rope.

Static/Semi static rope is used for abseiling or top roping where there is no potential for shock loading the system.

As for Peter t, tree surgeon ropes, while they come under the climbing rope heading, they are a work access/positioning rope, again no good for lead climbing.

 

[Paul_B]

Well I only have 2mm dyneema at the moment. Used it for some guys but needed to get it in 18m coil and only used a bit of it. I had some lengths in my sack on a backpacking trip when the laces on my fell shoes failed. I tied a knot in the rest of the laces and did a loop at the toe end in dyneema. I found out that dyneema as well as having a high breaking strain also cuts through nylon rather too quickly. Funny how dyneema is quite a tough material. Perhaps not in light of its other uses.

I got some "paracord" with my Kathmandu basha from Bison Bushcraft but I don't rate the stuff they gave me. Seemed too weak and too heavy. A good bit of dyneema is strong and can be a little abrasive, it just feels like a good, tough cord should be IMHO. Only a little slippy for some knots used in guy lines. Easy to remedy with some mini lineloks or by using some better performing knots. Lineloks in my case because I keep forgetting the knots when late at night in the hills in bad weather or rather just don't see the point when lineloks work perfectly with very little thought process being needed.

I'm guessing bushcrafters, like little school boys of old, always have some cordage on them at any one time. Not sure how many kids are like that nowadays.

 

[Minotaur]

Your weight does not increase with distance, unless you take into consideration the weight of the cord and distance from the centre of the earth. You would weigh the same at the end of a 200m abseil as you would at 2m. 550lb para cord would be adequate for a couple of people if the cord was routed correctly and your a very very smooth abseiler, I wouldn't choose to do it unless life or death, but I would do it.
Not forgetting that even the best knots weaken the cord by at least 25%

Ok, phrased badly. Is there not a relationship between distance, and stength?

Many sailors use retired climbing ropes.
5mm spectra/dyneema is the same stuff marine or not as are many ropes. I have lived and worked on boats most of my life and many sailors will use the cheapest rope they can get away with.

So why are spectra/dyneema not used for other purposes? Would have thought they would make super climbing ropes, for a start.

Well I only have 2mm dyneema at the moment. Used it for some guys but needed to get it in 18m coil and only used a bit of it. I had some lengths in my sack on a backpacking trip when the laces on my fell shoes failed. I tied a knot in the rest of the laces and did a loop at the toe end in dyneema. I found out that dyneema as well as having a high breaking strain also cuts through nylon rather too quickly. Funny how dyneema is quite a tough material. Perhaps not in light of its other uses.

I did wonder what it would be like in use.

 

[pastymuncher]

Ok, phrased badly. Is there not a relationship between distance, and stength?

Basically no.

So why are spectra/dyneema not used for other purposes? Would have thought they would make super climbing ropes, for a start

Spectra/dyneema are used in numerous climbing/boating applications. Slings cordage etc are often made of it, however it does have problems i.e slings have to be stitched, as tied slings slip and undo, not so much of a problem with cord though.
The properties of spectra/dyneema are great when you want a lightweight, strong and stretch free product.
A lead climbing rope however ideally wants to be lightweight and strong, and has to be shock absorbing, the latter being something that spectra/dyneema are definitely not good at.

 

[Paul_B]

I think the term for climbing ropes is dynamic. The ropes need to be dynamic in that when loaded by a sudden fall it needs to stretch as it is loaded otherwise the non-dynamic rope would stop the faller too suddenly for the faller's own good. Think of it bottom a little like a car airbag. Bear with me on this. Imagine the person falling is the same as the person who is still moving forward when the car, due to a crash, is no longer moving. The person hits the steering wheel and their face is smashed to bits or they are killed. The same motion with an airbag, which reacts to sudden stop of the car, inflates then gradually deflates as your face hits it thus preventing you from hitting the steering wheel with as much force. Whilst not preventing damage (it is likely your face will look a but beaten up) it does minimise it to a level where it is acceptable. Kind of like a climbing rope IMHO.

The abseil ropes however are not dynamic and usually (if as I was taught) is in black to show this. It does not stretch since this is not what you want when you are lowering yourself (most people are not thaat smooth at abseiling so a dynamic rope would stretch and you would not have a good abseiling feeling I think). Not too hot on abseiling as I'm afraid of heights and never could abseil but could climb. Funny how I am happy going up and even enjoy it but can't go down. I did it once and it left me like a big girls blouse throwing up and shaking all over. Since then I have been stuck on the end of a rope belaying someone while half hanging from a single bit of protection and half standing on a ledge that was probably less than the thin edge of an old fashioned cassette with nothing but a several hundreds of metres drop below me (even more if you fell and the protection failed as yo would probably have not hit the ground directly at the foot of the crag but part way down the very steep slope below it).

I do wonder if the abseil rope does have aa degree of dynamic properties in it as I'm sure the spectre/dyneema is a stronger cord and with weight becoming more important these days a lighter, stronger cord would make a climber's kit by now.

 

[ananix]

Two stranded twisted sisal cord and paracord, no rope.

As recommended in the Royal Marines survival book (my latest and favourite book) - get RED paracord. I have just come back from a week's course using the usual green, tan and black cord and it is definitely a good tip to use the red stuff as you will not lose it like you will with everything that is woodland coloured...

Consider using knots?

Seriusly what are you using your cords for?? Never heart about anyone losing paracord in a way that colour would make diffrence, I for one have never thrown out or lost any paracord some even dates almost 10years back from my army time and they still carry my keys and pocket knifes like they did back then. If its a general problem for you with everything that is woodland then i think you are better of praticing diciplin as it will solve more problems for you in woodcraft than changing colours of your gear. Dont lay things anywhere, and dont walk around with things, use them and put them straight back in their home or tie them to it.

 

[John Fenna]

The idea of ab-ing using paracord fills my mind with images of cheesewires..... a classic on hawserlaid climbing rope was bad enough! Paracord or 2mm Spectra? - Shades of Itchy and Scratchy!

 

[pastymuncher]

This link explains the different scenarios regarding static and dynamic ropes and the forces generated, A 4m fall on a spectra/dyneema/static cord/sling will destroy most climbing gear.
http://www.southeastclimbing.com/faq/faq_hypothetical_forces.htm

Paulb Abseil ropes are not exclusively black, and they are static/semi-static to make them easier to ascend, but it can make it more pleasant to abseil on as well.

 

[pastymuncher]

The idea of ab-ing using paracord fills my mind with images of cheesewires..... a classic on hawserlaid climbing rope was bad enough! Paracord or 2mm Spectra? - Shades of Itchy and Scratchy!

I certainly wouldn't be doing a body wrap abseil
It would need some innovative use of carabiners etc to make an effective brake.

 

[Minotaur]

The idea of ab-ing using paracord fills my mind with images of cheesewires..... a classic on hawserlaid climbing rope was bad enough! Paracord or 2mm Spectra? - Shades of Itchy and Scratchy!

Hey it works for Batman! :yikes:

Just thinking, I always wondered about how much a batmobile costs. Suddenly wonder how much he spends to swing round the city. Have to replace it every time it was used! No wonder no one is a superhero, it is the price of the spectra.

I just wonder about breaking even with bits. It hard enough on the hands doing tight lashing with cord that thick.

 

[Minotaur]

I certainly wouldn't be doing a body wrap abseil
It would need some innovative use of carabiners etc to make an effective brake.

Why would you? Keyring carabiner(A real climbing one obvously), small figure of eight, belt(rigger maybe, climbing belt or another sling), and a sling. On almost all of the abseils I have done, i.e. no climbing involved, this has been the set up used. Some sort of climbing belt, a sling, locking carabiner, and a figure of eight.

Been thinking about this. Climbing gear is not set up for anything lower than 8mm, i.e. the clever stuff, so you would have to abseil, the way to be honest I have always done it, with a figure of eight.

I was going to say the big problem would be practicing, but you could do that with a safety rope, so it is actually an interesting EDC idea.

Oh yeah, gloves, really really need gloves.

Back on topic a bit, think I am going to look hard at replacing paracord with one of the thinner super strong cords. Basically getting my useable carried stuff down to jute(or hemp) string, and some dispossiable nylon cord. Rope wise, thinking about a basic pioneering kit out of the utility cord, and maybe a 'handy hank' style rope(6 or 8mm).

On another thread someone mentioned about, using webbing as ridge line, and that seems to have struck a cord, so need to play with that, and the 4mm stuff. Think about it for a minute, you could use a small ratchet on it like they use for the lorry tie downs.

 

[Teepee]

Anyone got a good place to get Spectra or dyneema cord?

Best place i've found so far is Cygnus sails in kettering. They carry English braids stuff-really high quality.

 

[Grooveski]

Had a strange one last year. Picked up some 5mm braided mantle from the chandlers, cut a bit to length but using a lighter to melt the ends the core yarns melted at a much lower temperature than I'm used to with climbing rope then hardened into a chalk-like solid that just crumbled when I rolled the ends between my fingers.
It cut fine using a soldering iron but only if the temperature was so low as to be just melting the mantle and no more. Any higher and the same thing happened.

There's nowt wrong with the rope. It's fit enough for purpose, was a bit of a pain though. Just thought I'd mention it as folk were talking about chandlers.

One interesting thing about different cords is the way some of them can't handle saltwater. I've used various odds and ends to lash stuff into the canoe and some of them have only lasted one trip then have snapped the next time out. Others(mainly old prussick loops) are still going strong years down the line.

 

[pastymuncher]

.

One interesting thing about different cords is the way some of them can't handle saltwater. I've used various odds and ends to lash stuff into the canoe and some of them have only lasted one trip then have snapped the next time out. Others(mainly old prussick loops) are still going strong years down the line.

More likely to be U.V. degradation than salt water.

 

[Grooveski]

If you say so.

It's low usage and stored in the shade. The stuff that isn't repeatedly being soaked and dried lasts longer than the stuff that does. Personaly I know fine well it's water damage but you're entitled to your opinion.

 

[pastymuncher]

If you say so.

It's low usage and stored in the shade. The stuff that isn't repeatedly being soaked and dried lasts longer than the stuff that does. Personaly I know fine well it's water damage but you're entitled to your opinion.

I said "more likely" not definitely.
In more than 30 years of living, working, and playing about on boats, I have very rarely came across a rope that has degraded because of salt water, however I have come across many that have degraded due to U.V. damage.
In your situation though it does seem to be the salt water, might be worth letting us know what the cord is, so that we may avoid it.

 

[Minotaur]

I said "more likely" not definitely.
In more than 30 years of living, working, and playing about on boats, I have very rarely came across a rope that has degraded because of salt water, however I have come across many that have degraded due to U.V. damage.
In your situation though it does seem to be the salt water, might be worth letting us know what the cord is, so that we may avoid it.

Yes, would be very interested in this information.

 

[Outdoor_Guy]

Paracord... + Paracord. It's probably the single most useful cordage (probably ). I've used mine for pretty much all of these at some stage (well not repairing the Space Shuttle)..

Paracord Uses