As far as I know you have to use bleach to get white hemp. I also understand that if done in industrial scale direct oxygen bleaching methods could be used with no chlorine anywhere.
Man-made vs natural cordage?
- Thread starter Minotaur
- Start date
-
Come along to the amazing Summer Moot (21st July - 2nd August), a festival of bushcrafting and camping in a beautiful woodland PLEASE CLICK HERE for more information.
There was a lady came to a site where I was working. Hungarian/Romanian and she brought some of her home grown and processed and hand spun hemp. It was beautiful. She graded it fine, everyday and coarse. Her fine was as fine as my hand spun and woven linen....and I've been doing it for a while, and so had she 
It was white. Not dayglo white, but white.
We oohed and aaahed over each others spinning and weaving and there was not a word we had between us that the other could understand, but we knew what we were talking about lots of expression and hand gestures.
She gave me some of her hand spun thread, and I gave her some of my hand spun St Kilda yarn and fleece.
I hadn't believed that it was possible to process and spin hemp so finely by hand, and she hadn't believed that it was possible to spin wool so finely until I showed her mine and the tartan I wove from it. She said that her fine was used for blouses, shirts and baby clothing, the everyday for tablewear, skirts, aprons, working shirts, pillowslips, etc., and the coarse for towels and sometimes in the past for sails.
My fine nettle fibres are pale greeny white at first but wash up white without bleaching. Linen wears white, eventually, but either dew or water retted, it's not white to start with. Cotton fibres are white, but the processing makes them filthy, and if they aren't careful about removing the seeds (the cotton gin was a game changer) then the resultant fabric always looks fly speckled. Bleaching makes a huge difference, and it comes up bright white very easily.
Bog cotton is white though you have to pick it before it discolours as the stems rot.
It was white. Not dayglo white, but white. We oohed and aaahed over each others spinning and weaving and there was not a word we had between us that the other could understand, but we knew what we were talking about
lots of expression and hand gestures.She gave me some of her hand spun thread, and I gave her some of my hand spun St Kilda yarn and fleece.
I hadn't believed that it was possible to process and spin hemp so finely by hand, and she hadn't believed that it was possible to spin wool so finely until I showed her mine and the tartan I wove from it. She said that her fine was used for blouses, shirts and baby clothing, the everyday for tablewear, skirts, aprons, working shirts, pillowslips, etc., and the coarse for towels and sometimes in the past for sails.
My fine nettle fibres are pale greeny white at first but wash up white without bleaching. Linen wears white, eventually, but either dew or water retted, it's not white to start with. Cotton fibres are white, but the processing makes them filthy, and if they aren't careful about removing the seeds (the cotton gin was a game changer) then the resultant fabric always looks fly speckled. Bleaching makes a huge difference, and it comes up bright white very easily.
Bog cotton is white though you have to pick it before it discolours as the stems rot.
Parachute cord is terrible, lawnmower starter cord is miles better if your using modern stuff
As I have said, time and again, the neolithic culture is alive and well and all around me. No Chalcolithic. No bronze Age. BANG! bulk iron available for tools and weapons. It's still commonplace to make tools from iron.
Cord on the west coast had to be tediously constructed western red cedar bark fiber. It's good, you hand line and fight a 50 lb - 150 lb Pacific halibut, you need good line.
I'd like to learn how to make better ropes from simple sisal/hemp/manila fiber. I can buy 1,000 yard spools just down the road. Binder twine for small square hay bales. My grandpa had a home made rope spinning machine. Dad said they used simple binder/stook manila (sisal?)cord and twisted that into substantial ropes. Several spools on one side , turn the crank and rope came out the other side. I should make one just for the hell of it for "Pioneer Days."
Me, I use #18 nylon cord. Black tarred commercial seine net twine repair cord.
The breaking strength is 400 lbs+ if I remember. #18 yellow and pink and white "surveyor's cord " is the same thing with no tar. I can buy thicker and thinner but for tool making , #18 is just right.
Cord on the west coast had to be tediously constructed western red cedar bark fiber. It's good, you hand line and fight a 50 lb - 150 lb Pacific halibut, you need good line.
I'd like to learn how to make better ropes from simple sisal/hemp/manila fiber. I can buy 1,000 yard spools just down the road. Binder twine for small square hay bales. My grandpa had a home made rope spinning machine. Dad said they used simple binder/stook manila (sisal?)cord and twisted that into substantial ropes. Several spools on one side , turn the crank and rope came out the other side. I should make one just for the hell of it for "Pioneer Days."
Me, I use #18 nylon cord. Black tarred commercial seine net twine repair cord.
The breaking strength is 400 lbs+ if I remember. #18 yellow and pink and white "surveyor's cord " is the same thing with no tar. I can buy thicker and thinner but for tool making , #18 is just right.
The real stuff is very good however the fake stuff is rubbish and a waste of money.
I have some of the real stuff, from an actual parachute. It soaks up water, it's not very abrasion resistant and it's pretty stretchy. Ideal for parachutes but I maintain not ideal for many of the purposes it's bought and sold for. I still think the popularity of it is due to the military uses where it was readily available in the event of parachuting into somewhere.
It's pretty good in a fire bow or bow drill though. I'm pretty sure the bit that's on my firebow has been on it for at least five years. It's had a fair amount of use and it's still sound enough.
Other than that though, I have to agree with you @spandit
I reckon it was just useful and relatively available cordage....and the insides are easily extracted and useful in their own right too.
Other than that though, I have to agree with you @spandit
I reckon it was just useful and relatively available cordage....and the insides are easily extracted and useful in their own right too.
I'm surprised about the fire bow - I've heard different but I will bow to your experience.
Inner cords are useful, I agree.
It does come in different qualities. The green stuff on my bows is really, really good, but an entire reel of similar seeming stuff shredded into fibrous rags over a weekend.
I don't know how to tell the good from the bad.....and that applies to both the green and the white in my experience.
I don't know how to tell the good from the bad.....and that applies to both the green and the white in my experience.
I'll be honest, my experience of the stuff is not great. It's designed to stretch slightly to take shock loads; it would break too easily with high shock loads if it didn't. It's that bit of stretch that gives me headache in most applications other than guying out. Knots tend to come loose so it's a nightmare for lashing and I find it hard to maintain a decent tension on the bow drill. For lashing I much prefer a natural cord that will decompose after a few years and for bow drill a non-stretching cord such as the starter cord mentioned earlier.
And that's using 'proper' paracord; the cheap stuff is an absolute waste of money IMO.
And that's using 'proper' paracord; the cheap stuff is an absolute waste of money IMO.
Honestly, it's the one use for it that I just don't fret about.
When working and demonstrating eight or nine times a day we used to use blue polypropylene cord. Cheap as chips, the centre counted every penny, but it worked after a fashion. We had to change out the cordage every single day. The paracord on the other hand always works and it lasts seeming for years.
It was like the difference between a thin closed cell mat and my exped down one
Each to their own, but even though I make cordage, and I have a wide choice of cordage, I still prefer the paracord for my firebow and bow drills.
When working and demonstrating eight or nine times a day we used to use blue polypropylene cord. Cheap as chips, the centre counted every penny, but it worked after a fashion. We had to change out the cordage every single day. The paracord on the other hand always works and it lasts seeming for years.
It was like the difference between a thin closed cell mat and my exped down one
Each to their own, but even though I make cordage, and I have a wide choice of cordage, I still prefer the paracord for my firebow and bow drills.
Honestly, it's the one use for it that I just don't fret about.
When working and demonstrating eight or nine times a day we used to use blue polypropylene cord. Cheap as chips, the centre counted every penny, but it worked after a fashion. We had to change out the cordage every single day. The paracord on the other hand always works and it lasts seeming for years.
It was like the difference between a thin closed cell mat and my exped down one
Each to their own, but even though I make cordage, and I have a wide choice of cordage, I still prefer the paracord for my firebow and bow drills.
I'll have to try it again; maybe it's my technique that needs to improve
It becomes addictive, it really does.
You pass a pile of grass, and before you're ten yards further on you've got a rope......you can track a ropemaker just by following the trail of wee bits of cordage they make as they try out every blooming plant material they cross
Simplest way to make a grass rope is to make a wire hook and pass it through a bit of elder that you've pushed the inner core out of. Bend over that end and use it to caw the hook, holding the tube in your other hand. Bury into a pile of cut long grass. Slowly walk away from the pile turning the hook and you'll have rope following you along
Double over the rope and twist again, and you can quickly end up with rope as thick as your forearm.
You pass a pile of grass, and before you're ten yards further on you've got a rope......you can track a ropemaker just by following the trail of wee bits of cordage they make as they try out every blooming plant material they cross
Simplest way to make a grass rope is to make a wire hook and pass it through a bit of elder that you've pushed the inner core out of. Bend over that end and use it to caw the hook, holding the tube in your other hand. Bury into a pile of cut long grass. Slowly walk away from the pile turning the hook and you'll have rope following you along
Double over the rope and twist again, and you can quickly end up with rope as thick as your forearm.
OK Toddy, let's go fishing. By Christmas, I hope to finish 3 halibut hooks as used here in the Pacific Northwest. Two are Tlingit, one is Kwakwaka'Wakw, the designs are very similar and meant to catch medium sized fish 50-150 lbs.
We will need about 5' ropes between the floating hooks and the anchor stones.
We will need 50-100' of rope between the anchor stones and the surface indicator floats.
Here, it was most certainly finely made rope from western red cedar tree bark.
What would you make for a fishing trip?
We will need about 5' ropes between the floating hooks and the anchor stones.
We will need 50-100' of rope between the anchor stones and the surface indicator floats.
Here, it was most certainly finely made rope from western red cedar tree bark.
What would you make for a fishing trip?
Me ? I'd use willow bast.....it really doesn't mind being wet, and doesn't lose strength being wet.
Willow grows here though, and your Western Red Cedar didn't.
Best of all though would be lime bast, well for us. I know that Oak was used in the past too though.
I know someone who made his fishing kit out of nettle . Took him ages to prep and sort it out.
Beautiful stuff by the time he was done, and very sound in use he said too.
If I were rod fishing though, I'd patiently pleat horsehair. Even the ancient Greeks wrote about pleating horsehair to make such lines.
I went looking for a video that I knew I had seen a while ago, but this time round I found it on a rather different site.
Still worth a look, though I think the rope the lady makes looks a bit heavy weather kind of work.
www.offgridweb.com
Willow grows here though, and your Western Red Cedar didn't.
Best of all though would be lime bast, well for us. I know that Oak was used in the past too though.
I know someone who made his fishing kit out of nettle . Took him ages to prep and sort it out.
Beautiful stuff by the time he was done, and very sound in use he said too.
If I were rod fishing though, I'd patiently pleat horsehair. Even the ancient Greeks wrote about pleating horsehair to make such lines.
I went looking for a video that I knew I had seen a while ago, but this time round I found it on a rather different site.
Still worth a look, though I think the rope the lady makes looks a bit heavy weather kind of work.
Short Film: Making Viking-Era Lime Bast Rope
Lime bast rope is still made today in Norway using the same methods used by vikings in AD 800. It's composed of bast fibers from the linden tree.
www.offgridweb.com
Thankyou. I expected that the plant source would be different.
We have many species of willow growing in dense profusion along our water courses.
A wide variety of rope and rope-like materials were made from cedar withes, peculiar leaf-free pendulant cedar branches. In her book: Cedar", Hilary Stewart makes no mention of willow at all.
We have many species of willow growing in dense profusion along our water courses.
A wide variety of rope and rope-like materials were made from cedar withes, peculiar leaf-free pendulant cedar branches. In her book: Cedar", Hilary Stewart makes no mention of willow at all.
I like man made, especially when I can plan ahead and bring my own.
I use 7/64" (2.75mm) amsteel / dyneema whoopie slings, 1,600 lbs (725kg) breaking strength for hammock suspension, structural ridgeline, and continuous loops / soft shackles. Slightly smaller in diameter to paracord and doesn't stretch so things don't start sagging. Disadvantages are you can't burn the ends like paracord, knots can be difficult to undo once tightened, and it doesn't have the inner strand deal but I never really take apart paracord anyway.
I also use 1.75mm dyneema (lash it / zing it) with 500 lbs breaking strength for general purpose cord. Thinner and lighter than paracord, easy to keep a decent sized hank in a PSK or on your person. I usually keep 10m of it, plus a few soft shackle prusiks made out of the same line in my cache belt. It works fine for anything you'd use this diameter line for, a little ridgeline between two trees for a tarp, bear bag line, lashing, trotline, maybe improvised bow string. A lot of people use tarred bankline for the same sort of thing, so I can't say this does anything in particular alternatives cannot, but I do like it.
Finally I like braided spiderwire (I think 50-65 lbs test) for misc little cordage, fishing line, light lashing, sewing repair, etc. It's strong and you can carry a ton of it in a small space. Of course, as above, there are a ton of alternatives that can accomplish the same task. I just bought a spool of it and it lasts a long time.
I use 7/64" (2.75mm) amsteel / dyneema whoopie slings, 1,600 lbs (725kg) breaking strength for hammock suspension, structural ridgeline, and continuous loops / soft shackles. Slightly smaller in diameter to paracord and doesn't stretch so things don't start sagging. Disadvantages are you can't burn the ends like paracord, knots can be difficult to undo once tightened, and it doesn't have the inner strand deal but I never really take apart paracord anyway.
I also use 1.75mm dyneema (lash it / zing it) with 500 lbs breaking strength for general purpose cord. Thinner and lighter than paracord, easy to keep a decent sized hank in a PSK or on your person. I usually keep 10m of it, plus a few soft shackle prusiks made out of the same line in my cache belt. It works fine for anything you'd use this diameter line for, a little ridgeline between two trees for a tarp, bear bag line, lashing, trotline, maybe improvised bow string. A lot of people use tarred bankline for the same sort of thing, so I can't say this does anything in particular alternatives cannot, but I do like it.
Finally I like braided spiderwire (I think 50-65 lbs test) for misc little cordage, fishing line, light lashing, sewing repair, etc. It's strong and you can carry a ton of it in a small space. Of course, as above, there are a ton of alternatives that can accomplish the same task. I just bought a spool of it and it lasts a long time.
CoolIt becomes addictive, it really does.
You pass a pile of grass, and before you're ten yards further on you've got a rope......you can track a ropemaker just by following the trail of wee bits of cordage they make as they try out every blooming plant material they cross
Simplest way to make a grass rope is to make a wire hook and pass it through a bit of elder that you've pushed the inner core out of. Bend over that end and use it to caw the hook, holding the tube in your other hand. Bury into a pile of cut long grass. Slowly walk away from the pile turning the hook and you'll have rope following you along
Double over the rope and twist again, and you can quickly end up with rope as thick as your forearm.
