To Cull or not to cull.

[Bushwhacker]

Many livestock farms keep their cattle "indoors" for 6-8 months of each year to avoid poaching the ground and for ease of feeding and management during the winter. Dairy farms bring their cattle into the milking sheds twice a day x 365/366. As I recall TB is spread by close confinement with infected members of the species. Maybe badgers are "one" of the vectors for spreading the disease to cattle. But maybe we're keeping too many cattle in close confinement for too long to manage their health properly. Maybe it's fundamentally a cattle-management problem? So we need a whipping boy. And tonight, Brock, you've won the prize...

(NB before any flames I would like to point out that I live in a farming community and used to keep cattle and sheep...which lived outdoors all year round.)

You're right, close contact is not the cause, it's the spread.
The cause is more likely to be the condition of the sheds in which they're kept - a dark damp shed is a perfect environment for the bacteria to grow.

 

[fishfish]

personally i dont mind what approach is taken as long as its natural,the badger population here is huge,sooner or later something will wipe them out .i must add that i dont understand why an animal with such huge numbers that hasnt ever been threatened with extinction and can breed like....well was gonna say rabbits but you get my point,should be afforded the highest protection of any animal bar perhaps a bat! badgers arent cuddly animals that all the tree huggers think they are,theyre nasty animals vicious and very destructive,i guess if the only time they saw one was on the telly or on 'animal of farthing wood' dvd's from their inner city flat thats what they would think. You cant even put a fence up near a badger set for fear of doing jail time! remember last year the badgers that were digging up human remains in a churchyard? vicar wasnt allowed to do anything bar pick the pieces of the skeleton up and re bury somewhere else! madness.

 

[Retired Member southey]

personally i dont mind what approach is taken as long as its natural,the badger population here is huge,sooner or later something will wipe them out .i must add that i dont understand why an animal with such huge numbers that hasnt ever been threatened with extinction and can breed like....well was gonna say rabbits but you get my point,should be afforded the highest protection of any animal bar perhaps a bat! badgers arent cuddly animals that all the tree huggers think they are,theyre nasty animals vicious and very destructive,i guess if the only time they saw one was on the telly or on 'animal of farthing wood' dvd's from their inner city flat thats what they would think. You cant even put a fence up near a badger set for fear of doing jail time! remember last year the badgers that were digging up human remains in a churchyard? vicar wasnt allowed to do anything bar pick the pieces of the skeleton up and re bury somewhere else! madness.

Vicious, in what way?

 

[HillBill]

Why is a cull of badgers so distasteful? How many object to the cull of deer?

 

[HillBill]

I've seen one chase a gamekeeper into his landy then proceed to ram the landy door for about 15 minutes and burst a tyre.

Vicious, in what way?

 

[Retired Member southey]

thats not vicious, that's being a badger

 

[HillBill]

Funniest thing i've ever seen i think. I bet the keeper was glad he could out run the badger lol

 

[Retired Member southey]

hahahaha! now if it was a honey badger!

 

[British Red]

I wonder if people would feel the same if it was a rat cull? Or a wasp cull? Its strange why some creatures evoke an emotional reaction and others do not. I think the "Farthing Wood" comment is closer to the mark than many people like to admit.

 

[Retired Member southey]

perhapse it that its not being done because of sound evidence that it will have any great benefit Red and Fish,

 

[British Red]

I don't dispute that the evidence is sketchy at best Southey - I just find the emotion peculiar.

Creatures are killed all the time because they damage our food supply or because they are pests or just for fun. People shoot thousands of pigeons every year they damage crops. Doesn't fix the problem in any permanent sense - just temporarily reduces the damage. But I haven't seen a "save the pigeon" campaign.

Millions of creatures are bred every year for the fun of impaling them on metal spikes - I haven't seen a huge campaign about that either.

People trap wasps in old jam jars and drown them - it doesn't fix the wasp problem in any permanent sense.

Is there any real difference?

 

[Retired Member southey]

Oh dont get me wrong, I think the disnyfication of animals is completely wrong, and a reaction based on some petulie oil smelling incense burning hippy's anthropomorphising ideas of old brock,toad and a rat snuggling up under the blanket of a winters frost to be completely wrong, but I also don't think we should be quiet about dodgy initiatives based on poor research

 

[Retired Member southey]

I don't dispute that the evidence is sketchy at best Southey - I just find the emotion peculiar.

Creatures are killed all the time because they damage our food supply or because they are pests or just for fun. People shoot thousands of pigeons every year they damage crops. Doesn't fix the problem in any permanent sense - just temporarily reduces the damage. But I haven't seen a "save the pigeon" campaign.

Millions of creatures are bred every year for the fun of impaling them on metal spikes - I haven't seen a huge campaign about that either.

People trap wasps in old jam jars and drown them - it doesn't fix the wasp problem in any permanent sense.

Is there any real difference?

and on your other points, wasps are lippy, and pigeons taste great! not tasted badger so I can not comment,

 

[British Red]

I don't disagree - but why not oppose sport angling - how does the injury and death of those creatures help anyone?

Personally I'm not opposed to angling - but there is a chance that a badger cull may help cattle, farmers, food security etc. (it also may not). What does angling help? How can one say that one is wrong but choose to ignore the other?

I suggest its because fish are cold and slimy and people don't connect with them on an emotional level - rather for any rational or logical distinction.

I'm not having a dig at anyone here - but if we base our objection on the basis of logic, should we not apply that same logic to all creatures? If not are we not just as guilty of ilogical behaviour?

 

[dwardo]

Many livestock farms keep their cattle "indoors" for 6-8 months of each year to avoid poaching the ground and for ease of feeding and management during the winter. Dairy farms bring their cattle into the milking sheds twice a day x 365/366. As I recall TB is spread by close confinement with infected members of the species. Maybe badgers are "one" of the vectors for spreading the disease to cattle. But maybe we're keeping too many cattle in close confinement for too long to manage their health properly. Maybe it's fundamentally a cattle-management problem? So we need a whipping boy. And tonight, Brock, you've won the prize...

(NB before any flames I would like to point out that I live in a farming community and used to keep cattle and sheep...which lived outdoors all year round.)

I remember watching something on the box an age ago about different grass species and and different wear and destruction rate under hoof. Basically sewing a good cross of grass and weed species so that i can stand up to the hoof wear of all or most of the years grazing. This removed the need to keep them indoors for half the year. It was a fathers work passed onto his daughter if i remember rightly.
It seems to me that the most effective way will be the vaccination of cattle. They are in reality the easiest to control rather than a wild animal.
Yes there will be a cost involved obviously but is it going to be greater than the cost of the current financial support needed for farmers?
That and if the price of beef has to go up a little so be it. Maybe it will make us appreciate food a little more and make us more aware of waste and more use of different cuts of meat as our parents/grandparents did.

 

[HillBill]

Indeed. All or none. Anything else and we need a cull on hypocrisy

I'm not having a dig at anyone here - but if we base our objection on the basis of logic, should we not apply that same logic to all creatures? If not are we not just as guilty of ilogical behaviour?

 

[Retired Member southey]

I do oppose sport angling,especially those arrogant twits with poles, waste of time effort and money, also a hindrance to any other water users, fish to eat

 

[British Red]

....and there we diverge. I have no desire to participate in the sport - but I'll defend the right to do so of those who enjoy it.

 

[Retired Member southey]

Differences make the world a fun place to be Red

 

[rik_uk3]

I do oppose sport angling,especially those arrogant twits with poles, waste of time effort and money, also a hindrance to any other water users, fish to eat

Much easier

[video=youtube;adBm7U9-8OM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adBm7U9-8OM[/video]