The cost.

GuestD

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There are "erhical" issues, definitely, but the reason that most of these brands are manufactured/assembled in Asia etc, is solely driven by economics, both in manufacturing costs, and the costs of supplying/shipping into the world market, especially from China. The Chinese will manufacture and supply the quality you, as a brand, request, at the price they specify for the quality. So some of the "Scandinavian" branded goods will be superior , but they still tear the same on a barbed wire fence as Asda, Tesco, Lidl and Aldi. Taking it out of the "Bushcraft" scenario, how many of you would give up your smart phones.

For example,
https://goodelectronics.org/smartphone-built-sweatshop/

Apple as well.

I'm sure their quality control is excellent.
 

Lou

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Feb 16, 2011
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Totally agree with the last few posts. Consumer demand is responsible (amongst other things) for more and more cheaper goods, which in turn drives the prices down even further. Whilst I was working in the fashion industry it was always a case of taking a cent off here, cutting corners there, which meant a lower thread count in fabrics, less stitching on the seams, cheaper buttons etc. or going to factories that used slave labour (the majority of them still do, they are just hidden away from Western eyes) in order to produce the garment cheaper than the competitors. Years and years of this practice means that we now are wearing on the whole **** clothes that get sent to third world countries to deal with after we have chucked them out.

I am not saying we need to go back to wearing one tweed outfit for life (and another for Sunday best). Of course, we need modern solutions. And yes, people on this forum on the whole think differently, recycle, actually USE the clothes/equipment they buy until they no longer can be patched up, then they make them into something else. But consumer pressure/habits and demands CAN change manufacturing processes. Manufacturing IS driven by economics and if the economics (as in 'being economical') change, then the manufacturing processes will follow suit. The consumer is in control.

Sorry, I'm just having a Sunday afternoon rant only because I witnessed it first hand and on the whole people have no idea what actually goes into making clothes nowadays in the era of fast fashion (and iPhones and burgers and cars and. and. and.)

I believe that to buy something once, spending as much as you can possibly afford to pay for that item and then caring for it and using it for as long as possible is the key.
 

Toddy

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Well I must admit Toddy I'm not sure how my underpinnings ..(I just love that phrase can i steal it please)... will turn out and yes I will be using modern materials which are stretchy for comfort. Old t shirts to start off with.
I must admit I was inspired by Kirsty Allsops programmes to try and make more stuff instead of buying everything. It's fun and I have a sense of satisfaction after spending a frustrating week trying to teach myself to turn a heel on a sock and finaly succeeding. Yay!
I wander how many old t shirts I'm going to need to make a successful pair of underpinnings :) :)

Ah, I found that one t-shirt = two pairs of bikini style knickers :) or one pair and a 'very' soft bra (think nursing or sleeping type) unless the lady is very boyishly figured. One tshirt will make a pair of boxer short type underpants though.
The polo shirts can chafe, if I make myself clear. Not quite as comfortable as expected.

The old fashioned but very comfortable drawers are easily made from the sound bits of bedsheets, like the fitted edges that don't get so worn thin or faded.
I have patterns, somewhere...Son1's G/F is making silk French knickers just now, complete with hand rolled edged hems, lovely needlework :)

Socks ? best online pattern I've found to recommend is Sally in Wales' one on Downsizer.net.
Link...
http://www.downsizer.net/Articles/Make_your_own/Quick_and_Chunky_Sock_Pattern/
I generally knit mine from 4ply or finer, but then I've an old fashioned mind set to such craft work, the chunky wool that Sally uses makes really comfortable socks very much more quickly than the old patterns do.

A long time ago I did a couple of threads on 'from a shrunken' jumper type theme. It'd be fun to see what folks make from such recycling. I've made a quilt sized throw from the sound bits of my old worn out merino jumpers too, and endless things from the sound bits from jeans and combat trousers.
Lot of folk use the lower legs to make stuff sacks for hobo stoves and the like.

M
 

GuestD

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Sorry, I'm just having a Sunday afternoon rant only because I witnessed it first hand and on the whole people have no idea what actually goes into making clothes nowadays in the era of fast fashion (and iPhones and burgers and cars and. and. and.)

Rant ?I wouldn't say so. We live in a consumer driven society where the economy depends on people buying stuff with built in obsolescence (clothes cars electronics etc etc ) and debt. By convincing people to buy things they don't need, with money they don't have. Every now and then it comes down with a big crash (2007) but most folks memories are shorter than their bank balance. I don't own a car anymore, my neighbours feel sorry for me, I must be poor.
 
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Janne

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The wish to buy cheap has resulted in our countries losing the ability to manufacture. Of course, the need for profit has contributed also.
Even if suddenly the market for goods made in our countries explodes, it can not be met for a long time.

We do not have the skilled people, the factories including machinery, nothing. The few remaining manufacturers are small, highly specialised. Producing fairly exclusive, expensive stuff.
 
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Toddy

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Rant ?I wouldn't say so. We live in a consumer driven society where the economy depends on people buying stuff with built in obsolescence (clothes cars electronics etc etc ) and debt. By convincing people to buy things they don't need, with money they don't have. Every now and then it comes down with a big crash (2007) but most folks memories are shorter than their bank balance. I don't own a car anymore, my neighbours feel sorry for me, I must be poor.

"God bless the cat that breaks the crock in pieces very small,
for such a thing is good for trade, thus benefits us all"
Victorian adage taught in schools.
 
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GuestD

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I've spent most of the past week dodging about in the woods. I sort of go into auto mode when I get dressed, mostly out of years of habit. This week's outfit ? Linen shirt, (Marks and Spencer) trousers, (Tesco), underwear and socks, (don't know), Jacket (old Dundee made Carhartt denim), boots, (Blundstone), hat (old Bailey trilby), plus a rolled up unlined modified Driza-Bone, in case of rain, and very comfortable I was too, and thankfully no unpleasant encounters with the fashion police.
 
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Janne

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Short term - less cost and better products ( for the consumer)
Long term - more cost and better products ( for the consumer)

Short and long term for Earth as we know it - bad, bad bad!

But then, humans have contributed to the extinction and a severe change of the biosphere since we climbed down from the trees.....

The first step, and a very important one, leading to todays budding environmental catastrophy, was when the Proto Human discovered a straw could be used to get out those tasty ants and termites!
 

Toddy

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Earliest signs of humanity...tool use, fire and communication/spread of ideas/knowledge and skills.

We're still doing it, just to rather more effect.

I'd like to believe that we can become better at minimising collateral damage. If we don't then it's a hellish legacy we're leaving our children.

M
 
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GuestD

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I'd like to believe that we can become better at minimising collateral damage. If we don't then it's a hellish legacy we're leaving our children.

"We", have the ability, but it comes at a financial cost to both consumer and "shareholder". The latter being the governing factor. I think anyone born after 1945 has possibly seen the best. My old house was built with stone quarried within two miles, slated with slates within eyesight of the kitchen window, and the timber was felled locally, and milled within two miles away. No powertools were involved, but of course that was in the early 1800's. The slate quarry is still there, but.closed, and the sawmill was closed in the late 1990's, as greater profit was to be made selling the land to commuters to clog up the narrow roads with Audi Q7's. We've certainly come a long way. In general, people will not accept change needs to come, and it may involve a step backwards, and out of their bubble of selfishness.
 
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Toddy

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I live in an area where the sandstone quarries are less than a mile away. Three ha'pence was the price for a cut stone block, 1' x 1' x 2'...the three quarries were still open when my father was a boy. All around us there are sandstone houses and buildings, but slates had to come from Ballachuilish or from Wales. Good clay nearby and they're still using it to make bricks....right enough they made a tidy profit from the 3' seam of coal that they'd to dig out to get to the clay :rolleyes:
You're right though, all those quarries are gone, and the last farm in the village is being built upon right now. No space left. Even the old Victorian gasworks site has become flats and an estate of eighty more houses.

Thing is though, all the masons who carved that stone, they died young. They died of lung disease caused by the stone dust, like the men who built Edinburgh's New Town. Silicosis is a hellish way to die.
Now we know they need protective clothing and decent machinery and dust extractors, but that all costs money....but no one dies from the dust of cutting building stone, not here. Too expensive, too uneconomical, etc., so now we import cut sandstone slabs from India....where I suspect poor men still die young from silicosis :sigh:

I think we are becoming very aware of the damage we cause by the products we souce, buy and use and dispose of.
Apparently the biggest issue to re-cycling is the mixed media. Cardboard coated with plastics, metal foil bonded to plastic and card and paper. Endless clingfilm and single use polythene bags.
Already though paper bags are making a come back in the supermarkets :) and almost everyone brings at least some of their own shopping bags when they shop.

We don't buy butcher meat wrapped in greaseproof paper anymore though, and we don't visit the butcher's shop and queue up beside hanging carcases slowly dripping the odd spot of blood onto sawdust covered floors. That was pretty normal in my childhood. None of this not knowing where meat came from. It came from a dead animal, and the butchers worked in the shop with the door open and no heating on, all year round. Red raw swollen hands they all had. Layered up in clothes and scarves in Winter, and the back door open to create a through going breeze to keep things cold in Summer. The meat was always good though, and nothing went to waste, even the bones went into the stock pots and were then given to the dogs.
Health and Safety would have a field day with all that now.

Fruit and veg comes on plastic trays inside sealed poly bags or in those hellish wee plastic nets, and very little of it's recycleable. We still have a local fruitmonger though, and you get to pick what you want from the big boxes there. It's a lot more expensive than the supermarkets however.

I wonder how well the recycling of bottles, jars and cans will go ? It's another step along the road I think :) I am very glad that in general people really are becoming aware of the issues. Whether that will really change things or not, well, that's a wait and see, isn't it ?

M
 
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Janne

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90% or so of all the plastic released into the oceans originate from three (3) rivers.

Recycling is an old craft, forgotten, then rediscovered.

Hydration is a dangerous Snowflake habit. Dangerous for the organism, dangerous for Nature/Earth.

Modern Medicine is the downfall of the Earth.
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
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Florida
There are "erhical" issues, definitely, but the reason that most of these brands are manufactured/assembled in Asia etc, is solely driven by economics, both in manufacturing costs, and the costs of supplying/shipping into the world market, especially from China. The Chinese will manufacture and supply the quality you, as a brand, request, at the price they specify for the quality. So some of the "Scandinavian" branded goods will be superior , but they still tear the same on a barbed wire fence as Asda, Tesco, Lidl and Aldi. Taking it out of the "Bushcraft" scenario, how many of you would give up your smart phones.

For example,
https://goodelectronics.org/smartphone-built-sweatshop/

Apple as well.

I'm sure their quality control is excellent.
I’ve never had a smart phone.
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
16,909
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68
Florida
Earliest signs of humanity...tool use, fire and communication/spread of ideas/knowledge and skills.

We're still doing it, just to rather more effect.

I'd like to believe that we can become better at minimising collateral damage. If we don't then it's a hellish legacy we're leaving our children.

M
Everybody’s always saying how we should try to leave a better planet for our children.
Shouldn’t we be thinking of leaving better children for the planet?
 

Toddy

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Everybody’s always saying how we should try to leave a better planet for our children.
Shouldn’t we be thinking of leaving better children for the planet?

Those of us who have quietly and contentedly reared children who have grown into adults we not only genuinely like, and love, but are proud to say that they are part of the solution, not the problem, would really take umbrage at that statement.

The children are pushing for change, are changing their own behaviour, and doing their damnedest to clean up the mess we've been making....much like our generation cleared up the pollution of the Industrial Revolution.
It's a new Revolution, one clearing up the plastic one.

M
 

Lou

Settler
Feb 16, 2011
631
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the French Alps
twitter.com
Europe ( and N. America?) is a much cleaner place than at any time since WW2.

Really? I would like to see some evidence backing up that claim Janne! What do you mean by cleaner anyway? You mean like we wash more? If you mean a cleaner environment, I think you may find that we are kidding ourselves. I think you will also find that we have replaced the idea of being 'mucky' with a false cleanliness - polluting the planet with toxins we cannot possibly remove from the environment but are on the whole 'invisible' because we can depose of it and forget about it - NIMBY at its best. Most of the plastic waste circulating in the sea now has been produced in the last 15 years of our long life on this planet.

Diesel could be seen as one of the worst polluters of them all and how many diesel fumes are in the world now compared to 1945? 200,000 flights a day in 2019 compared to.... what - the very earliest signs of a commercial airlines coming into existence in 1945?

Blood dripping from a meat carcass in the butchers is NOT A PROBLEM. That could be seen by some as unclean? Micro plastic is now in every living organism on earth, including ourselves, who yes as a species could be considered very clean!
 
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Nice65

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Those of us who have quietly and contentedly reared children who have grown into adults we not only genuinely like, and love, but are proud to say that they are part of the solution, not the problem, would really take umbrage at that statement.

The children are pushing for change, are changing their own behaviour, and doing their damnedest to clean up the mess we've been making....much like our generation cleared up the pollution of the Industrial Revolution.
It's a new Revolution, one clearing up the plastic one.

M

This is very true. Last Christmas I was putting all the used paper in the recycling and my 18yr old niece asked if I’d taken all the sticky tape off. I hadn’t of course, so we went through the bag removing tape, plastic foil type wrapping, anything with lots of foil on it. I was then told not to put the paper into the recycling bin in the bag, but to empty it into the bin. I did know that bit, but my assumption with the rest was it’s all mashed to pulp and strained to remove the tape. It’s a lazy approach I took and I was suitably chastised and educated.

These kids know about it, a lot of us adults are just paying lip service to recycling, contaminating much of it and rendering the lot for landfill.
 

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