The cost.

[Janne]

The Carhartt long jacket I have is the best quality item I have. I think it can take a 12Ga no 5 from close range.
Not that hugely expensive either, I have seen far more expensive Europe made clothes.
I expect it o last my long life out.

 

[santaman2000]

The Carhartt long jacket I have is the best quality item I have. I think it can take a 12Ga no 5 from close range.
Not that hugely expensive either, I have seen far more expensive Europe made clothes.
I expect it o last my long life out.

#5 shot is still #5 shot whether it’s fired from a 12 gauge or a 410.

 

[santaman2000]

Not sure about that statement Janne - I find dry-hot and dry-cold countries an awful lot easier to deal with than the UK's slightly-cold-wet and slightly-hot-wet conditions

I can manage hot or cold. Wet or dry. My problem is when the wether/climate is unpredictable and you have to dress for what it is now and pack for what it might be this afternoon.

 

[Janne]

#5 shot is still #5 shot whether it’s fired from a 12 gauge or a 410.

More of them in a 12 Ga.
With the same V0 the result is higher energy in total.

I can not stand high temperatures. DNA tweaked for cold.
Yeah, living in the Caribbean is fun. Not.

 

[Herman30]

I find dry-hot and dry-cold countries an awful lot easier to deal with than the UK's slightly-cold-wet and slightly-hot-wet conditions

No way, Jose! Not me, I prefer cold and wet over hot and dry. I dislike it when temperature rises above +15 Celsius.

 

[John Fenna]

I find great difficulty dressing for jungle conditions (cannot get away from the sweat) but not for semi desert (sweat dries fast) I have not tried full on desert.
I find great difficulty dressing for changeable Atlantic temperate - you never know what is going to happen in the next hour but settled dry/cold is easy as you just layer up!
I try to avoid synthetic fabrics these days as I find that natural fibers generally work better: waterproofs for continual downpours with no chance of drying off are an exception ... but then I try not to go out!
I find a lot of modern kit is more designed for "Fashion Leisure" than true hard work and outdoor living and I try to avoid most "Labels" now as I do not find most of them value for money.
Army surplus, work wear, supermarket, charity shops and above all DIY are my sources of preference these days.

 

[Robson Valley]

I'm shivering right now at 25C. Poor circulation which is getting worse.
I have learned that seasonal clothing of the kinds that outdoor workers wear is the trick.
Because I live inland, really good rain-wear, ocean-spray clothing, is hard to come by.
I've never made it into the shops in Whitby but I'll bet their fishing clothes are tops.

This village is slowly returning to become the railway center that it once was in the golden age of steam.
I examine what the rail people are wearing for outdoor work clothing when we're dancing,
cheek-to-cheek, in our local grocery store.
Like I've said, ad nauseam, it's almost all one brand.

 

[Broch]

I've never made it into the shops in Whitby but I'll bet their fishing clothes are tops.

Sadly, the shops are all jewellers selling exactly the same Jet pendants and bric-a-brac/antique shops - with one or two exceptions. Still a lovely place to visit but not much of its old fishing fleet history left.

 

[Robson Valley]

Bummer, that. I won't bother. I have been visiting family in N Yorks
and thought that I was really missing out on something as never got into Whitby.

Most of our coastal ports have one or more chandlers for me to blow money.
Maybe I should make an expedition of discovery and visit 6-8 of them.
I want more/new rain clothes. Industrial quality.

 

[GuestD]

I have found if you wear "Bushcraft uniform" game keepers want to know what you're up to. Whereas don a charity shop Norfolk Jacket and tweed hat, a tie also helps, and they say "good morning sir". This comes under the heading "Bushcraft Subterfuge", and it is successful. In fact, recently, The 13th Duke of Wybourne was so enamoured with my attire, he offered me his eldest daughters hand in marriage.

 

[Broch]

Is that the daughter that was found in the England Rugby team's changing rooms after the match? with her reputation; what were they thinking of?

A tweed jacket and hat is a kind of camouflage in gamekeeper territory ; they see you but think your something else.

 

[tiger stacker]

I find great difficulty dressing for jungle conditions (cannot get away from the sweat) but not for semi desert (sweat dries fast) I have not tried full on desert.
I find great difficulty dressing for changeable Atlantic temperate - you never know what is going to happen in the next hour but settled dry/cold is easy as you just layer up!
I try to avoid synthetic fabrics these days as I find that natural fibers generally work better: waterproofs for continual downpours with no chance of drying off are an exception ... but then I try not to go out!
I find a lot of modern kit is more designed for "Fashion Leisure" than true hard work and outdoor living and I try to avoid most "Labels" now as I do not find most of them value for money.
Army surplus, work wear, supermarket, charity shops and above all DIY are my sources of preference these days.

From the Maysan area of Iraq it was almost desert while not quite the famous marshland of Wilfred Thesiger s book.
The then desert combats were baggy for heat escape, granted when it hit over 54"c you didn't really care as the shade was slightly cooler. Even acclimatised AC helped in the evenings. In the winter softy jackets were worn for comfort, I never took my wooly pulley relying instead on my sasquatch to earn its then expensive price.


Last year i picked up a nike hooded running thermal top, ideal for wearing out and about. A hood makes a excellent buff collar, throw in a fleece top or gillet for middle layering.

Cost can be offset by long term careful usage, the spin cycle has a lot to answer for when shrinkage occurs.

 

[Janne]

I must be inbread as I do not inderstand the two last posts.
Time to dust off the Banjo!

 

[Broch]

I must be inbread as I do not inderstand the two last posts.
Time to dust off the Banjo!

Always worth a link to this

 

[Tengu]

Well, someone on site threw out two bin bags full of clothing. I now have some insulting T shirts and a Mitre jogging suit.

But as to the rest, I wantedsome cloth for crafts, but these are too good, to the clothing bank or charity shop

Unless anyone wants size M shirts

 

[Lou]

I worked in Chinese Factories in the nineties checking quality control and overseeing the making of clothes/fabrics/accessories etc. I also produced clothes for the U.S. army in the tens of thousands of units. I take issue with the idea of buying cheap clothes/accessories and then chucking them away when they fall apart, which they will do very quickly. I know that people do not like brands because they are a 'uniform/label' - and yes, I think there's a ton of inverse snobbery going on but often these brands are known for their quality and endurance and A LOT of thought goes into their manufacture. These particular clothing brands (only a few) are proud of their name and what it stands for and the research and development they do into fabric, factories and clothing manufacture (that is one of the reasons why they are more expensive). Yes, many have started to be known for their name alone and this is how they sell a lot of their goods, but many, including Fjallraven also have an 'ethic' that they follow. Patagonia is another example. Many started out as small family run businesses only interested in providing quality goods that were ethical as a matter of course (because of the nature of their business) even before the idea of ethics in clothing was a 'thing'.

I have a motto (only because I have worked in the fashion industry and seen its destructive practices first hand) that you don't get something for nothing in this world and the money we save on cheap clothing gets passed on as a 'cost' in the form of abysmal working conditions, absent health and safety regulations, non-existent rights and pay to factory workers (esp. women) and the inevitable environmental cost (i.e. polluted rivers - I have seen them - depletion of natural resources, cruelty to animals that produce the fibre and skin and damaged eco-systems etc.). All of it hidden (usually behind clever advertising) so that we don't have to think twice about any of it.

I am sure it is the same with knives and other equipment and I feel sad that people have the attitude that they can buy and 'lose' cheap items willy-nilly and it does not matter. Even charity shops can no longer cope with the amount of stuff in circulation.

I totally understand that people do not have the money to buy expensive clothes. I get it. I also get the fact that people think high cost brands are sick and just an overpriced label. A well-made pair of trousers SHOULD cost upwards of £70 at least - there is no way on earth, even if you made it yourself - it should cost any less. A good down jacket has the feather of a huge number of eider duck in it. It should cost £600 at least. A synthetic down jacket has micro-plastics in it that will eventually disperse into the environment (and eventually our lungs) and 'never' get broken down. It should be even more expensive, so that we never want to get rid of it.

In the days before consumerism was a thing, people would spend a huge proportion of their living wage on clothes and then keep them for the rest of their lives, using the help of a sewing machine or needle and thread to fix tatty hems, apply patches etc and customise the worn out bits. This is the way it should be.

I think that the title of this thread says it all and it is, at the end of the day, about taking on that cost ourselves rather than passing it on to others who suffer big time because of our consumer habits.

 

[Corso]

Problem is Fjallraven now get most of their stuff made in China, South Korea, Vietnam etc. and yet their prices are alot higher than when they made the stuff in house

In my experience the quality has suffered for it too.

They are certainly not alone...

 

[Woody girl]

I worked in Chinese Factories in the nineties checking quality control and overseeing the making of clothes/fabrics/accessories etc. I also produced clothes for the U.S. army in the tens of thousands of units. I take issue with the idea of buying cheap clothes/accessories and then chucking them away when they fall apart, which they will do very quickly. I know that people do not like brands because they are a 'uniform/label' - and yes, I think there's a ton of inverse snobbery going on but often these brands are known for their quality and endurance and A LOT of thought goes into their manufacture. These particular clothing brands (only a few) are proud of their name and what it stands for and the research and development they do into fabric, factories and clothing manufacture (that is one of the reasons why they are more expensive). Yes, many have started to be known for their name alone and this is how they sell a lot of their goods, but many, including Fjallraven also have an 'ethic' that they follow. Patagonia is another example. Many started out as small family run businesses only interested in providing quality goods that were ethical as a matter of course (because of the nature of their business) even before the idea of ethics in clothing was a 'thing'.

I have a motto (only because I have worked in the fashion industry and seen its destructive practices first hand) that you don't get something for nothing in this world and the money we save on cheap clothing gets passed on as a 'cost' in the form of abysmal working conditions, absent health and safety regulations, non-existent rights and pay to factory workers (esp. women) and the inevitable environmental cost (i.e. polluted rivers - I have seen them - depletion of natural resources, cruelty to animals that produce the fibre and skin and damaged eco-systems etc.). All of it hidden (usually behind clever advertising) so that we don't have to think twice about any of it.

I am sure it is the same with knives and other equipment and I feel sad that people have the attitude that they can buy and 'lose' cheap items willy-nilly and it does not matter. Even charity shops can no longer cope with the amount of stuff in circulation.

I totally understand that people do not have the money to buy expensive clothes. I get it. I also get the fact that people think high cost brands are sick and just an overpriced label. A well-made pair of trousers SHOULD cost upwards of £70 at least - there is no way on earth, even if you made it yourself - it should cost any less. A good down jacket has the feather of a huge number of eider duck in it. It should cost £600 at least. A synthetic down jacket has micro-plastics in it that will eventually disperse into the environment (and eventually our lungs) and 'never' get broken down. It should be even more expensive, so that we never want to get rid of it.

In the days before consumerism was a thing, people would spend a huge proportion of their living wage on clothes and then keep them for the rest of their lives, using the help of a sewing machine or needle and thread to fix tatty hems, apply patches etc and customise the worn out bits. This is the way it should be.

I think that the title of this thread says it all and it is, at the end of the day, about taking on that cost ourselves rather than passing it on to others who suffer big time because of our consumer habits.

Well said lou. There is a whole conversation about waste in all forms going on and I'm sure we are all aware of it. So much is thrown away nowadays rather than patched and reused.
Clothes shopping for me is charity shop or home made.
My grandpa was a tailor and he made a lot of my clothes when I was little. My mother and grandma knitted so I was never short of cardigans hats gloves and socks.. I still make a a lot of things myself.
I'm not so good at sewing but I've had a few success as well as some failures, but it's all good fun and better than watching the continual repeats and reality trash on on tv. I've just bought the makings for underwear.. this year's have a go challenge . Patching I am good at.
Darning I wish I had my grandma's skills but it can be done.
We should all take more time to think about our clothes. The other day one of my local charity shops refused to take any more clothing for a while as they had more than they could cope with... this is a small town so tiny that visitors often call it a village. ... if we are struggling with clothes waste here where all clothing is origionaly bought out of town......makes you think doesn't it?

 

[Toddy]

Not disagreeing with you, but, and it cannot be ignored; it's a modern world, and we need modern solutions to our exploitation re clothing.

I do sew, I do mend and repair, but it takes not only skill, it takes time. It can take a lot of time, and nowadays women mostly work, they aren't housewives happy to spend two or three hours an evening with the 'mending basket'.
Socks regularly needed darning, shirts used frequently for more than a couple of months start to look scruffy around the neck, clothing fades with washing, bobbles with wear, trousers seat and crease and wear at the hems and crotch, and not everyone is happy to look like something out of Steptoe and Son, especially when most folks no longer work in industry and need to look smart, yet stay within a budget.

The old rule of three; one on, one in the wash and one ready to wear, no longer applies. Mother or the Missus doesn't wash every day for you any more and easy care is the name of the game.

So while it's all very well to claim the moral high ground and stomp down on 'cheap' clothing options, the reality is that that's what most folk need and can afford. That they choose to buy 'labels' too is very much part of modern societal mores.

There are mavericks....the forums full of them .....and there are people really trying to make the effort to be both environmentally and ethically conscious of their clothing choices, but it's not as easy as it might sound to do that in practice.
Woodygirl's underwear for instance. I hold my hand up and say yes, I have made my silk and cotton underpinnings, but y'know? Lycra's awful good stuff but not environmentally sound apparently.....and I really cannot see my menfolks being happy to have M Made rather than Marks & Sparks.

So, modern solutions, that people can actually live with, afford and are happy to use. I suppose we could all go back to the Ancient Brit look, but it doesn't quite work well outside reenacting or hippy-dom. Been there, tried that, still like wearing it around the house and garden, but I don't wear it out past the front gate.

M

 

[Woody girl]

Well I must admit Toddy I'm not sure how my underpinnings ..(I just love that phrase can i steal it please)... will turn out and yes I will be using modern materials which are stretchy for comfort. Old t shirts to start off with.
I must admit I was inspired by Kirsty Allsops programmes to try and make more stuff instead of buying everything. It's fun and I have a sense of satisfaction after spending a frustrating week trying to teach myself to turn a heel on a sock and finaly succeeding. Yay!
I wander how many old t shirts I'm going to need to make a successful pair of underpinnings